Author Topic: Mary  (Read 62589 times)

ippy

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Re: Mary
« Reply #275 on: August 13, 2015, 05:31:58 PM »

There are numerous tie ins between the OT and the outside world, verified - literally - in stone, by other civilisations (guess which ones....).
As for the NT, Alan, amongst others, has provided links to sources which are not Christian, but mention Christ.

Yes, but items such as the Prism of Sennacherib (whose details of the siege in question differ somewhat from the Biblical account) do nothing to substantiate the supernatural claims of the Bible (indeed, the Prism says nothing about the 'Angel' which was supposed to have relieved the siege - what a surprise). Archaelogical evidence is one thing, but supernatural evidence?

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Who mentioned Sennacharib?

"Don't mention the inquisition!! Who said that!!

ippy

ippy

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Re: Mary
« Reply #276 on: August 13, 2015, 05:33:55 PM »
Dear Jim,

The good lady asks for verifiable evidence, something you can put under a microscope, amputee's limbs growing again, big finger in the sky stuff.

Billions of Christians who have found salvation doesn't count, millions of people who have turned from a life of crime doesn't count, millions who at this very moment are working with our sick, our poor, those in poverty does not count.

Just because it works is not evidence.

Gonnagle.

Gonners, "Billions of Christians who have found salvation", Billions of Christians have convinced themselves in their imaginations that they have found some kind of salvation, they are all unable to substantiate that they have.

ippy

Your constant and obsessive belittling of Christians is offensive and immature, in the extreme.

And still correct B A

ippy

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Mary
« Reply #277 on: August 13, 2015, 05:36:57 PM »
Dear Jim,

The good lady asks for verifiable evidence, something you can put under a microscope, amputee's limbs growing again, big finger in the sky stuff.

Billions of Christians who have found salvation doesn't count, millions of people who have turned from a life of crime doesn't count, millions who at this very moment are working with our sick, our poor, those in poverty does not count.

Just because it works is not evidence.

Gonnagle.

Gonners, "Billions of Christians who have found salvation", Billions of Christians have convinced themselves in their imaginations that they have found some kind of salvation, they are all unable to substantiate that they have.

ippy

Your constant and obsessive belittling of Christians is offensive and immature, in the extreme.

And still correct B A

ippy

You, "correct?"  Well, pigs may fly.
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Alien

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Re: Mary
« Reply #278 on: August 13, 2015, 05:48:48 PM »
Dear Jim,

The good lady asks for verifiable evidence, something you can put under a microscope, amputee's limbs growing again, big finger in the sky stuff.

Billions of Christians who have found salvation doesn't count, millions of people who have turned from a life of crime doesn't count, millions who at this very moment are working with our sick, our poor, those in poverty does not count.

Just because it works is not evidence.

Gonnagle.

Gonners, "Billions of Christians who have found salvation", Billions of Christians have convinced themselves in their imaginations that they have found some kind of salvation, they are all unable to substantiate that they have.

ippy

Your constant and obsessive belittling of Christians is offensive and immature, in the extreme.
BA, I wouldn't bother wasting any more electronic ink trying to get ippy to write in a sensible manner.
Apparently 99.9975% atheist because I believe in one out of 4000 believed in (an atheist on Facebook). Yes, check the maths as well.

Anchorman

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Re: Mary
« Reply #279 on: August 13, 2015, 06:47:06 PM »
C;mon, guys - we'd wonder if there was something wrong if he wrote in any other fashon.


Oh, and, DU;
After the tenth century BC, there's surprisingly loads of tie ins with events in scripture; tie-ins recorded in Egypt, Assyeria, Babylon and Persia.
Sonetimes names are mentioned, at other times places, battles, etc.
Don't forget that, in the scheme of things, historically speaking, Israel and Judah were minor players at best in the history of late bronze age and early Iron age Middle Eastern history. That substantive evidence exists at all is interesting in itself.
The other difficulty is that Israel had an annoying habit of giving Hebrew language names to people and places beyond her borders...and untsngling them is a headache at times.
At least they shared this bad habit of theirs with the Greeks, though, because everyone holds the Hellenistic civilisation up as a paragon (which it wasn't), most of the Greek place and personal names stuck.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

ippy

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Re: Mary
« Reply #280 on: August 13, 2015, 06:50:19 PM »
Dear Jim,

The good lady asks for verifiable evidence, something you can put under a microscope, amputee's limbs growing again, big finger in the sky stuff.

Billions of Christians who have found salvation doesn't count, millions of people who have turned from a life of crime doesn't count, millions who at this very moment are working with our sick, our poor, those in poverty does not count.

Just because it works is not evidence.

Gonnagle.

Gonners, "Billions of Christians who have found salvation", Billions of Christians have convinced themselves in their imaginations that they have found some kind of salvation, they are all unable to substantiate that they have.

ippy

Your constant and obsessive belittling of Christians is offensive and immature, in the extreme.
BA, I wouldn't bother wasting any more electronic ink trying to get ippy to write in a sensible manner.

So the christians have been able to substantiate that they have found this salvation?

When was that Ailen?

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Mary
« Reply #281 on: August 13, 2015, 06:52:18 PM »
Dear Jim,

The good lady asks for verifiable evidence, something you can put under a microscope, amputee's limbs growing again, big finger in the sky stuff.

Billions of Christians who have found salvation doesn't count, millions of people who have turned from a life of crime doesn't count, millions who at this very moment are working with our sick, our poor, those in poverty does not count.

Just because it works is not evidence.

Gonnagle.

Gonners, "Billions of Christians who have found salvation", Billions of Christians have convinced themselves in their imaginations that they have found some kind of salvation, they are all unable to substantiate that they have.

ippy

Your constant and obsessive belittling of Christians is offensive and immature, in the extreme.
BA, I wouldn't bother wasting any more electronic ink trying to get ippy to write in a sensible manner.

Sadly, I think that's right!
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

SusanDoris

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Re: Mary
« Reply #282 on: August 14, 2015, 06:11:34 AM »
Gonners, "Billions of Christians who have found salvation",
Billions of Christians have convinced themselves in their imaginations that they have found some kind of salvation, they are all unable to substantiate that they have.

ippy
Your constant and obsessive belittling of Christians is offensive and immature, in the extreme.
Why is it then that all those with, supposedly, the greatest knowledge and authority about god fail totally to present a single verifiable fact about this God they believe in?
The Most Honourable Sister of Titular Indecision.

Hope

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Re: Mary
« Reply #283 on: August 14, 2015, 08:03:32 AM »
Why is it then that all those with, supposedly, the greatest knowledge and authority about god fail totally to present a single verifiable fact about this God they believe in?
Do they fail in the way you describe?
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

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BashfulAnthony

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Re: Mary
« Reply #284 on: August 14, 2015, 08:44:34 AM »
Gonners, "Billions of Christians who have found salvation",
Billions of Christians have convinced themselves in their imaginations that they have found some kind of salvation, they are all unable to substantiate that they have.

ippy
Your constant and obsessive belittling of Christians is offensive and immature, in the extreme.
Why is it then that all those with, supposedly, the greatest knowledge and authority about god fail totally to present a single verifiable fact about this God they believe in?

Can you provide a single piece of verifiable evidence that you are not an idiot?   No!  That doesn't mean you are an idiot. Some things can be accepted without having to provide "verifiable evidence."
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

trippymonkey

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Re: Mary
« Reply #285 on: August 14, 2015, 08:52:54 AM »
YER WOT ?!?!?!?

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Mary
« Reply #286 on: August 14, 2015, 08:54:03 AM »
YER WOT ?!?!?!?


Can you provide a single piece of verifiable evidence that you are not an idiot?   No!  That doesn't mean you are an idiot. Some things can be accepted without having to provide "verifiable evidence."
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

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Re: Mary
« Reply #287 on: August 14, 2015, 08:57:16 AM »
Gonners, "Billions of Christians who have found salvation",
Billions of Christians have convinced themselves in their imaginations that they have found some kind of salvation, they are all unable to substantiate that they have.

ippy
Your constant and obsessive belittling of Christians is offensive and immature, in the extreme.
Why is it then that all those with, supposedly, the greatest knowledge and authority about god fail totally to present a single verifiable fact about this God they believe in?

Because there isn't any verifiable facts to support the existence of their deity, only belief and assumptions.  As I have said before, one or two Christians on this forum bring their version of Christianity into disrepute by their constant nastiness. They are always dissing others, instead of removing the blinding beams from their own eyes! 

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Mary
« Reply #288 on: August 14, 2015, 09:24:02 AM »
Gonners, "Billions of Christians who have found salvation",
Billions of Christians have convinced themselves in their imaginations that they have found some kind of salvation, they are all unable to substantiate that they have.

ippy
Your constant and obsessive belittling of Christians is offensive and immature, in the extreme.
Why is it then that all those with, supposedly, the greatest knowledge and authority about god fail totally to present a single verifiable fact about this God they believe in?

Because there isn't any verifiable facts to support the existence of their deity, only belief and assumptions.  As I have said before, one or two Christians on this forum bring their version of Christianity into disrepute by their constant nastiness. They are always dissing others, instead of removing the blinding beams from their own eyes!

You are so boring!  Can't you think of something different to say?
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Gonnagle

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Re: Mary
« Reply #289 on: August 14, 2015, 10:14:24 AM »
Dear Bashers,

Ippy conveniently overlooks the fact that it works, he fails, like so many to look in detail as to why it works.

I was having a very polite conversation with Torridon ( I think ) where he accused Christianity of being a very lucky religion, I politely pointed out that it was, still is a religion that can speak to all, it is more than just luck ( luck or divine intervention ) more about the message, the life and teachings of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Or maybe he is right, Christianity is a very, very, very lucky religion.

Gonnagle.

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BashfulAnthony

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Re: Mary
« Reply #290 on: August 14, 2015, 10:19:13 AM »
Dear Bashers,

Ippy conveniently overlooks the fact that it works, he fails, like so many to look in detail as to why it works.

I was having a very polite conversation with Torridon ( I think ) where he accused Christianity of being a very lucky religion, I politely pointed out that it was, still is a religion that can speak to all, it is more than just luck ( luck or divine intervention ) more about the message, the life and teachings of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Or maybe he is right, Christianity is a very, very, very lucky religion.

Gonnagle.

PS: Other religions are available.

I think people like Ippy are missing something in their lives and resent those who have a belief, something they wish they had.  So they hit out at it, and that is very sad.  It seems to be any excuse, whether it be calling it lucky, or their usual "fairies, magic" stuff.
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Mary
« Reply #291 on: August 14, 2015, 10:21:40 AM »
Gonners, "Billions of Christians who have found salvation",
Billions of Christians have convinced themselves in their imaginations that they have found some kind of salvation, they are all unable to substantiate that they have.

ippy
Your constant and obsessive belittling of Christians is offensive and immature, in the extreme.
Why is it then that all those with, supposedly, the greatest knowledge and authority about god fail totally to present a single verifiable fact about this God they believe in?

Because there isn't any verifiable facts to support the existence of their deity, only belief and assumptions.  As I have said before, one or two Christians on this forum bring their version of Christianity into disrepute by their constant nastiness. They are always dissing others, instead of removing the blinding beams from their own eyes!
But philosophies aren't supported by verifiable facts. No, not even the notion that the only truths are verifiable facts. Get that and you may be lifted out of what many perceive as a constant nastiness.

jjohnjil

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Re: Mary
« Reply #292 on: August 14, 2015, 10:53:15 AM »
Gonners, "Billions of Christians who have found salvation",
Billions of Christians have convinced themselves in their imaginations that they have found some kind of salvation, they are all unable to substantiate that they have.

ippy
Your constant and obsessive belittling of Christians is offensive and immature, in the extreme.
Why is it then that all those with, supposedly, the greatest knowledge and authority about god fail totally to present a single verifiable fact about this God they believe in?

Because there isn't any verifiable facts to support the existence of their deity, only belief and assumptions.  As I have said before, one or two Christians on this forum bring their version of Christianity into disrepute by their constant nastiness. They are always dissing others, instead of removing the blinding beams from their own eyes!
But philosophies aren't supported by verifiable facts. No, not even the notion that the only truths are verifiable facts. Get that and you may be lifted out of what many perceive as a constant nastiness.

Very true, Vlad, many truths we may never be able to verify as facts ... but once we credit God with anything we don't understand, we are as good as giving up trying to find the truth of it.

This is the problem, the Church tried to stifle all those who didn't just accept Goddidit as an answer.  Scientific discovery was frowned upon as heresy and if it hadn't been for those who rebelled against the teachings of the church, we would still be in the Dark Ages and you wouldn't be on the Internet now criticising scientists and their methods.

Gonnagle

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Re: Mary
« Reply #293 on: August 14, 2015, 11:18:59 AM »
Dear jj,

What you say is true, a truth, but the Church has grown and for me, thankfully, it remains a voice to ask science, are you sure, have you factored in all the implications.

After all, scientists are human, and subject to all our human failings.

Gonnagle.
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Hope

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Re: Mary
« Reply #294 on: August 14, 2015, 11:19:16 AM »
This is the problem, the Church tried to stifle all those who didn't just accept Goddidit as an answer.  Scientific discovery was frowned upon as heresy and if it hadn't been for those who rebelled against the teachings of the church, we would still be in the Dark Ages and you wouldn't be on the Internet now criticising scientists and their methods.
Ah, jj, you have suddenly switched the focus from 'Christianity' to 'the Church'.  Is there a reason for this?  At the same time, how many of the rebelling scientists you refer to remained Christians, whether they were excommunicated or not?
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

jjohnjil

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Re: Mary
« Reply #295 on: August 14, 2015, 12:12:24 PM »
This is the problem, the Church tried to stifle all those who didn't just accept Goddidit as an answer.  Scientific discovery was frowned upon as heresy and if it hadn't been for those who rebelled against the teachings of the church, we would still be in the Dark Ages and you wouldn't be on the Internet now criticising scientists and their methods.
Ah, jj, you have suddenly switched the focus from 'Christianity' to 'the Church'.  Is there a reason for this?  At the same time, how many of the rebelling scientists you refer to remained Christians, whether they were excommunicated or not?

Yes, they mostly remained Christians, guess why!  They valued their liberty and life!

As a historian, Hope, I think you  must have studied with your magic Christian glasses on.

jjohnjil

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Re: Mary
« Reply #296 on: August 14, 2015, 12:39:51 PM »
Dear jj,

What you say is true, a truth, but the Church has grown and for me, thankfully, it remains a voice to ask science, are you sure, have you factored in all the implications.

After all, scientists are human, and subject to all our human failings.

Gonnagle.

Hi Gonners, okay I hope?

I agree the Christian Church has changed but many on this forum seem to still be back in the old days of being scared of science. 
Yes, we should always ask the implications of the scientists' discoveries but we have to ask the politicians not the scientists, it's they who put the discoveries to good or bad use.

Gonnagle

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Re: Mary
« Reply #297 on: August 14, 2015, 12:55:28 PM »
Dear jj,

I am brand new old chap, I hope you and yours are good.

What you say is true, our politicians are having a rough time at the moment, some where it is richly deserved.

Gonnagle.
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ippy

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Re: Mary
« Reply #298 on: August 14, 2015, 01:20:55 PM »
Dear Bashers,

Ippy conveniently overlooks the fact that it works, he fails, like so many to look in detail as to why it works.

I was having a very polite conversation with Torridon ( I think ) where he accused Christianity of being a very lucky religion, I politely pointed out that it was, still is a religion that can speak to all, it is more than just luck ( luck or divine intervention ) more about the message, the life and teachings of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Or maybe he is right, Christianity is a very, very, very lucky religion.

Gonnagle.

PS: Other religions are available.

Homeopathy works in well known perimeters, it's a kind of self deception that needs a certain circumstances to throw the switch, religion doesn't have anywhere as much effect so really it appears that homeopathy is a more effective unexplained prescriptive than another self deceptive, unexplained prescriptive religion. 

As for being able to speak for all, so can a lot of comedians.

Have a look at the latest figures I've posted on the forum this morning, it looks like it's luck is running out fast here in the UK.

ippy
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 01:27:07 PM by ippy »

ippy

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Re: Mary
« Reply #299 on: August 14, 2015, 01:22:33 PM »
Why is it then that all those with, supposedly, the greatest knowledge and authority about god fail totally to present a single verifiable fact about this God they believe in?
Do they fail in the way you describe?

Yes.

ippy