Mary

[Shaker]

I think that it is something that that 'hypocritical and tyrannically vindictive' God endowed humanity with that enables you to say such a thing.  It's called freewill.

Evidence for this assertion?

[Alien]

I think that it is something that that 'hypocritical and tyrannically vindictive' God endowed humanity with that enables you to say such a thing.  It's called freewill.

Evidence for this assertion?

You choosing to ask for the evidence or perhaps you couldn't help it?

[ippy]

I think that it is something that that 'hypocritical and tyrannically vindictive' God endowed humanity with that enables you to say such a thing.  It's called freewill.

Evidence for this assertion?

You choosing to ask for the evidence or perhaps you couldn't help it?

Have you got any evidence that would confirm Shaker couldn't help it?

ippy

[jeremyp]

And why do you say it was invented Jeremy?

Because dead people don't come alive again.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

And why do you say it was invented Jeremy?

Because dead people don't come alive again.

Not usually No.

[jeremyp]

Not usually No.

Not ever.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Not usually No.

Not ever.

Prove it.

[Gordon]

Not usually No.

Not ever.

Prove it.

Why not pop along to your local undertaker and ask an expert - I expect they will confirm that after 2/3 days the dead really do stay dead.

[jeremyp]

Not usually No.

Not ever.

Prove it.

Name any confirmed resurrection anywhere in the World in the last hundred years.

Thought you couldn't. 

[Shaker]

Not usually No.

Not ever.

Prove it.

Name any confirmed resurrection anywhere in the World in the last hundred years.

Thought you couldn't.

Come come; let's not be parochial.

Name any confirmed resurrection (of an actually dead person, as opposed to an apparently dead person) anywhere in the world ever.

[Sassy]

You can't understand the scriptures properly apart from the life of the Holy Spirit in the Church. You should try it. The reason you don't accept Blessed Mary's perpetual virginity is because you have an heretical view of the Incarnation.

I have a real view of God and what he has told man.
You make silly excuses and remarks which even you with the knowledge you claim cannot sustain before God or man.
Jospeh would have had to divorce Mary because the sum of money or whatever was necessary then would have been paid. But Joseph under Jewish law would be required to consummate the marriage. You know nothing of Gods teachings just mans teachings. The Roman Catholic church was created by people who disobeyed the laws of God and did evil before his sight. It was not established by Christ or the disciples and the Prophets. It was someone trying to seize it because they believed in doing so they would have power over the world. But we see that Gods way is not the way of the RC early church.

It is based on Christ, Truth, Love and the Holy Spirit.

The reason sin, the world and the Devil cannot prevail against Gods Church is because it is based in truth within the person who believes in Christ and is born of the Holy Spirit. A person who loves God with all their heart (not power, wealth and money) and loves their neighbour as themselves..(does not kill them for not believing in God or being a gentile).

Not all who call me Lord! Lord! will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

You belong to an establishment which does not belong to Christ and has never known Christ... Maybe you have left that establishment but you need to leave their teachings behind and draw near to Christ and know the truth.

[Sassy]

18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Mary and Joseph did come together, have sex with Joseph but only after the birth of Christ.. For if they had not 'come together' then there would be no reason to write she was found with child before they came together. Joseph and Mary were already engaged when she became pregnant with Jesus.

24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

As you can see Mary and Joseph did have sex after the birth of Christ.

That is the passage that is always bought up, but it's not meant to show anything more than that she was a virgin when she gave birth. It's not meant to suggest anything else. Here's another example from the scriptures: The Lord said to my Lord: Sit thou at my right hand: Until I make thy enemies thy footstool. Is this meant to suggest that Christ will no longer be at the right hand of the Father?

You really do not know your bible do you?  I suggest you stop thinking about what you were told and actually read it, read it for yourself asking God to guide you.

I wouldn't ask YOUR god the time of day and, if I did, I would then check my watch and believe that rather than him!

Your book is 2,000 years out of date, it was a different world then - drag yourself into the 21st centiury Sass, the hypocricy and tyrannical vindictiveness of your god is better known now than that load of historic rubbish you call the bible!

You are entitled to your beliefs but you need to realise that more and more people are recognising it for the tosh that it is.

Matthew 5:10-12 (King James Version)
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
 

When Jesus was tested or falsely accused he used the scriptures the OT to reply to   those who falsely accused and doubted him. I am just a human being and I know that true worshippers worship God in Spirit and Truth.

You being at fault is seen clearly in you proffering the way of the old covenant and not the new way of the new covenant.

God has clearly said: I will make a new covenant. Not like the OLD covenant.


31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

This is the new covenant:



33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

King James Bible
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

You have never learned the new way of the covenant for even now you compare people to the old and reject the new. We will both give an account one day.
You need to examine yourself and the things you judge others by.
For the truth is within us....

[ad_orientem]

Blah blah blah! Mary and Jospeh were never actually married in the full sense except in appearance and I don't know why you're bringing Roman Catholicism into this either. Your doctrine is clearly from the devil. The perpetual virginity of Blessed Mary is a natural consequence of the Incarnation, which you would see if you didn't have such a screwed understanding of who Christ is: God made flesh.

[Sassy]

Have you ever noticed that we still have greed, racism, murder, poverty, and a whole host of other everyday social malaises that existed then.  OK, in some ways those malaises have become more subtle in their execution here in the West, but are we really that much different as humans?

Which only goes to show just how little good Christianty has achieved in 2,000 years - S F A! (and no, I do not mean Sweet fanny Adams!)

I've heard a lot about this 'hypocricy and tyrannical vindictiveness', yet have never actually seen any evidential examples of it.  Perhaps you can enlighten the board.

Hypocricy - Exodus 22:18 and the Sixth Commandment.

Vindictiveness - PObey me and my rules or you will roast in Hell forever.

I think that it is something that that 'hypocritical and tyrannically vindictive' God endowed humanity with that enables you to say such a thing.  It's called freewill.  Not sure that any deity other than the Judeo-Christian one even thought to provide that.

Every single Pagan deity, female and male, gave humanity freewill, thousands of years before your Johnny-come-lately.

Get your rose-coloured glasses and your blinkers off, your head out of the clouds and your feet back on the ground.

You really believe that rant made any sense?
You have not shown or produces any well thought out and referenced replies from what I have read. Want to start all over again. You have taken your ranting and anger and displayed it without any real grounds for it. So now go back and produced a well documented and reasoned response.

[Sassy]

Blah blah blah! Mary and Jospeh were never actually married in the full sense except in appearance and I don't know why you're bringing Roman Catholicism into this either. Your doctrine is clearly from the devil. The perpetual virginity of Blessed Mary is a natural consequence of the Incarnation, which you would see if you didn't have such a screwed understanding of who Christ is: God made flesh.

If Mary was never married in any full sense except in appearance then why did the gospel say:

King James Bible
Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.

So divorce her quietly.

There is NOTHING in the teachings of the Prophets, the disciples or the Laws of God which give merit to your teaching. If it isn't in the OT, it isn't a teaching and it isn't a fact.

You can insult me and you can make all manner of lies up.
But Mary has NO importance in the Christian faith after the birth of Christ. She was Gods servant and the same standing as you and I. As Christ shows when he says:

King James Bible
For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Shall Christ false so you can be true? God forbid... you are false and your teaching. For Mary is like all who believe in Christ and love God first... They are those who do the will of God. This teaching of yours is not the will of God and does not come from God.

[jakswan]

Your doctrine is clearly from the devil.

I knew there was something weird about it.

[Owlswing]

Have you ever noticed that we still have greed, racism, murder, poverty, and a whole host of other everyday social malaises that existed then.  OK, in some ways those malaises have become more subtle in their execution here in the West, but are we really that much different as humans?

Which only goes to show just how little good Christianty has achieved in 2,000 years - S F A! (and no, I do not mean Sweet fanny Adams!)

I've heard a lot about this 'hypocricy and tyrannical vindictiveness', yet have never actually seen any evidential examples of it.  Perhaps you can enlighten the board.

Hypocricy - Exodus 22:18 and the Sixth Commandment.

Vindictiveness - PObey me and my rules or you will roast in Hell forever.

I think that it is something that that 'hypocritical and tyrannically vindictive' God endowed humanity with that enables you to say such a thing.  It's called freewill.  Not sure that any deity other than the Judeo-Christian one even thought to provide that.

Every single Pagan deity, female and male, gave humanity freewill, thousands of years before your Johnny-come-lately.

Get your rose-coloured glasses and your blinkers off, your head out of the clouds and your feet back on the ground.

You really believe that rant made any sense?
You have not shown or produces any well thought out and referenced replies from what I have read. Want to start all over again. You have taken your ranting and anger and displayed it without any real grounds for it. So now go back and produced a well documented and reasoned response.

You really do take the biscuit!

You do not have a single thought in your head or a single word form your mouth or typed on your computer that is a product for the freewill that whatever deity you follow gave you.

You are locked into a book that has absolutely no connection with the world in which we live.
 
You have absolutely no idea from whence comes my anger at the Christian churches - and you, my blinkered and pathetic Sassy, are just one facet of my rejection of Christianity.

I will lay bets that if you thought that your god, or his son, demanded the life of your child as proof of your loyalty you would not hesitate for second to give it.

Putting as bluntly as the Rules allow - you totally and completely disgust me!

[ad_orientem]

Blah blah blah! Mary and Jospeh were never actually married in the full sense except in appearance and I don't know why you're bringing Roman Catholicism into this either. Your doctrine is clearly from the devil. The perpetual virginity of Blessed Mary is a natural consequence of the Incarnation, which you would see if you didn't have such a screwed understanding of who Christ is: God made flesh.

If Mary was never married in any full sense except in appearance then why did the gospel say:

King James Bible
Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.

So divorce her quietly.

There is NOTHING in the teachings of the Prophets, the disciples or the Laws of God which give merit to your teaching. If it isn't in the OT, it isn't a teaching and it isn't a fact.

You can insult me and you can make all manner of lies up.
But Mary has NO importance in the Christian faith after the birth of Christ. She was Gods servant and the same standing as you and I. As Christ shows when he says:

King James Bible
For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Shall Christ false so you can be true? God forbid... you are false and your teaching. For Mary is like all who believe in Christ and love God first... They are those who do the will of God. This teaching of yours is not the will of God and does not come from God.

As I said, your doctrine us clearly from the devil. If you believed that Christ is truely God made flesh you wouldn't make such foolish comments and you would know that the blessed Theotokos remaimed a virgin. You fall into the same error as the heretic Helvidius. There are two things you should read. The first is Blessed Jerome's tract against Helvidius and the second is the Protoevangelium of James.

[Sassy]

Have you ever noticed that we still have greed, racism, murder, poverty, and a whole host of other everyday social malaises that existed then.  OK, in some ways those malaises have become more subtle in their execution here in the West, but are we really that much different as humans?

Which only goes to show just how little good Christianty has achieved in 2,000 years - S F A! (and no, I do not mean Sweet fanny Adams!)

I've heard a lot about this 'hypocricy and tyrannical vindictiveness', yet have never actually seen any evidential examples of it.  Perhaps you can enlighten the board.

Hypocricy - Exodus 22:18 and the Sixth Commandment.

Vindictiveness - PObey me and my rules or you will roast in Hell forever.

I think that it is something that that 'hypocritical and tyrannically vindictive' God endowed humanity with that enables you to say such a thing.  It's called freewill.  Not sure that any deity other than the Judeo-Christian one even thought to provide that.

Every single Pagan deity, female and male, gave humanity freewill, thousands of years before your Johnny-come-lately.

Get your rose-coloured glasses and your blinkers off, your head out of the clouds and your feet back on the ground.

You really believe that rant made any sense?
You have not shown or produces any well thought out and referenced replies from what I have read. Want to start all over again. You have taken your ranting and anger and displayed it without any real grounds for it. So now go back and produced a well documented and reasoned response.

You really do take the biscuit!

You do not have a single thought in your head or a single word form your mouth or typed on your computer that is a product for the freewill that whatever deity you follow gave you.

The fact I replied to you in the first instance shows how wrong you are about a single thought and freewill on my part, Do you EVER REALLY reason with yourself before you reply.

You are locked into a book that has absolutely no connection with the world in which we live.
 

So tell me how the bible would be connected or unconnected with the world we live in.  If you knew the bible or why it exists you would not have made such a ridiculous statement which you cannot validate.

You have absolutely no idea from whence comes my anger at the Christian churches - and you, my blinkered and pathetic Sassy, are just one facet of my rejection of Christianity.

There is absolutely NOTHING, if not a believer in God which would give you standing or reason to reject or have anger at the Christian Church. The truth is that had you had any real understanding and experience of the true Church and the bible truths you would never have written these replies to post in the first instance.

I will lay bets that if you thought that your god, or his son, demanded the life of your child as proof of your loyalty you would not hesitate for second to give it.

How and why would God need the life of my child,. God is not a pagan  false god,
The sacrifices he wants are thanks and praise. He created my children they are already his. I see no sense in your comment.

Putting as bluntly as the Rules allow - you totally and completely disgust me!

You are the person who should hang their head in disgrace and shame for even thinking let alone writing it...

[Sassy]

Blah blah blah! Mary and Jospeh were never actually married in the full sense except in appearance and I don't know why you're bringing Roman Catholicism into this either. Your doctrine is clearly from the devil. The perpetual virginity of Blessed Mary is a natural consequence of the Incarnation, which you would see if you didn't have such a screwed understanding of who Christ is: God made flesh.

If Mary was never married in any full sense except in appearance then why did the gospel say:

King James Bible
Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.

So divorce her quietly.

There is NOTHING in the teachings of the Prophets, the disciples or the Laws of God which give merit to your teaching. If it isn't in the OT, it isn't a teaching and it isn't a fact.

You can insult me and you can make all manner of lies up.
But Mary has NO importance in the Christian faith after the birth of Christ. She was Gods servant and the same standing as you and I. As Christ shows when he says:

King James Bible
For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Shall Christ false so you can be true? God forbid... you are false and your teaching. For Mary is like all who believe in Christ and love God first... They are those who do the will of God. This teaching of yours is not the will of God and does not come from God.

As I said, your doctrine us clearly from the devil. If you believed that Christ is truely God made flesh you wouldn't make such foolish comments and you would know that the blessed Theotokos remaimed a virgin. You fall into the same error as the heretic Helvidius. There are two things you should read. The first is Blessed Jerome's tract against Helvidius and the second is the Protoevangelium of James.

I see you avoid the FACT and the TRUTH from God to follow your own wrong path of false beliefs.
As God says that YOU SHALL NOT ADD TO HIS WORDS....


2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

God never gave you those teachings and nowhere in the OT are they supported.
You have had the matter made plain to you and no longer have any excuse for your ignoring Gods word in favour of your own and mans.
Take heed for when the master returns to give rewards you will reap what you sowed.

[Owlswing]

Rep;ly to #393 - Sassy

You are entitled to your beliefs, whatever they may be.

Equally I am entitled to consider every iota of your beliefs to be total and complete bollocks - and I do!

Your attachment to the tyrannical hypocirite and the book of what are supposed to be his words - the Word of God - is pathetic.

Your Church, the church of Christ, has been responsible, in one way or another, for the deaths of more hiuman beings than any other group or orgaization in history. The only bigger killer than Christianity is the plethora of diseases that your loving God has inflicted upon the human race.

You are the person who should hang their head in disgrace and shame for even thinking let alone writing it

Disgrace and shame because I do not believe as you do! I take great pride in rejecting your beliefs and it is only the Rules that prevent me from telling you so in the words that I would prefer to use!

I repeat - you and your religion and its sanctimonious claptrap disgust me. I suggest that you take it and stick it where the sun don't shine.

You may now respond to this post in any way you see fit and with as many quotes from the bible as you can find - you will, as far as I am concerned, be 'talking" to yourself!

[Sassy]

Rep;ly to #393 - Sassy

You are entitled to your beliefs, whatever they may be.

Equally I am entitled to consider every iota of your beliefs to be total and complete bollocks - and I do!

You don't know every iota of my beliefs.  It would be impossible for you to say your opinion is reasonable or informed. 

Your attachment to the tyrannical hypocirite and the book of what are supposed to be his words - the Word of God - is pathetic.

What attachment is that. What parts of the book are you basing your decision on.
As I said no reasoned or tangible evidence to support anything you say.

Your Church, the church of Christ, has been responsible, in one way or another, for the deaths of more hiuman beings than any other group or orgaization in history. The only bigger killer than Christianity is the plethora of diseases that your loving God has inflicted upon the human race.

I am not a member of the Roman Catholic Church and they and they alone are the offenders you speak about. Can you not differentiate between the true and false church. Surely if you had listened to Christ then the Church is built on love and truth. Remind me why NERO lied about the Christians and fed them to Lions.
TO cover their own evil.

You are the person who should hang their head in disgrace and shame for even thinking let alone writing it

Disgrace and shame because I do not believe as you do! I take great pride in rejecting your beliefs and it is only the Rules that prevent me from telling you so in the words that I would prefer to use!

Nothing to do with you not believing in what I believe about God.
Your bad behaviour and reply was about you and was not caused by anything I believe. It was simply you and your attitude being wrong. The same attitude of those liars calling themselves Christians who murdered and tortured innocent people. You can see what you hate in your own attitude and that does not require belief in any god. It requires only man be himself.

I repeat - you and your religion and its sanctimonious claptrap disgust me. I suggest that you take it and stick it where the sun don't shine.

You may now respond to this post in any way you see fit and with as many quotes from the bible as you can find - you will, as far as I am concerned, be 'talking" to yourself!

Your own ignorance and hatred is your downfall. No one can harm you more than you harm yourself, already. I feel sadness for you. Especially your ignorance in which you do it...

[ad_orientem]

I see you avoid the FACT and the TRUTH from God to follow your own wrong path of false beliefs.
As God says that YOU SHALL NOT ADD TO HIS WORDS....


2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

God never gave you those teachings and nowhere in the OT are they supported.
You have had the matter made plain to you and no longer have any excuse for your ignoring Gods word in favour of your own and mans.
Take heed for when the master returns to give rewards you will reap what you sowed.

On the contrary, that you do not believe in the Incarnation or the New Testament scriptures shows that you are without foundation, that you have built your house on sand and you will be ignorant of the truth as long as you continue to do so because you do not know Christ.

[Leonard James]

I see you avoid the FACT and the TRUTH from God to follow your own wrong path of false beliefs.
As God says that YOU SHALL NOT ADD TO HIS WORDS....


2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

God never gave you those teachings and nowhere in the OT are they supported.
You have had the matter made plain to you and no longer have any excuse for your ignoring Gods word in favour of your own and mans.
Take heed for when the master returns to give rewards you will reap what you sowed.

On the contrary, that you do not believe in the Incarnation or the New Testament scriptures shows that you are without foundation, that you have built your house on sand and you will be ignorant of the truth as long as you continue to do so because you do not know Christ.

Blimey, this looks like a case of thieves falling out! 

[Shaker]

Always entertaining