Re-nationalisation of industries - Corbyn

[Udayana]

Why don't they just work on a suitable set of policies, ie ones that will all add up to practical and efficient economy and public services, then choose the best salesperson - once they know what they are going for?

[wigginhall]

Why don't they just work on a suitable set of policies, ie ones that will all add up to practical and efficient economy and public services, then choose the best salesperson - once they know what they are going for?

Yes, but Nu Labour are hypnotized by neo-liberalism, so they cannot think outside that.   Hence, 'we'd do what Osborne is doing, but we'd pay a living wage of 2p more per week, and we'd cut benefits by 0.01% less, and we'd be tougher on foreigners, and we'd keep Clacton white for ever, and we'd bomb Syria next week, not this week.'   Go, go, go.   

[BashfulAnthony]

I've not heard his reasoning - it could be that he wants to keep the Sinn Fein MPs on-side in an attempt to bring them back into the parliamentary fold, it may be that he sees no benefit in raking over old coals at a time when many in the region are attempting to move beyond the history.

This is the man who sympathised with violent Irish Republicanism in the 1980s, invited IRA representatives to the Commons a fortnight after the Brighton bombing in 1984 and, at a Troops Out meeting in 1987, stood for a minute’s silence to “honour” eight IRA terrorists killed in an SAS ambush.   I wonder how many people are aware of his sympathies in this regard?  I wonder how many have ever bothered to find out any of his political stances, and not just his leadership hype.  In an interview on Channel 4 last month he said,  "I spoke at a meeting about the Middle East crisis in Parliament and there were people there from Hezbollah and I said I welcomed our friends."
Is this the man we want to have influence over our dealings with murderous terrorists?

[jakswan]

Why don't they just work on a suitable set of policies, ie ones that will all add up to practical and efficient economy and public services, then choose the best salesperson - once they know what they are going for?

Comrade, its because they have rabid leftists who label any shift to the right as neo-liberalism.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Good King Tony also talked about there having to be a sea change in the political mood of the country.

Given that the polls were wrong because a section of the electorate were serpentine about how they would vote and that section turned out to be Shy Tory one must wonder if the hundreds of thousands who have joined Labour are Tories motivated to take direct action by malicious voting in the labour leadership election.

If that is so we've not yet reached the high water level in support
for the Conservatives and the sea change isn't happening.

The Tories though I think are depending on big swathes just to slink off into the night...I don't know if they can have that as well as a fairly secret army of Shy but very active Tories.

[Hope]

Given that the polls were wrong because a section of the electorate were serpentine about how they would vote and that section turned out to be Shy Tory one must wonder if the hundreds of thousands who have joined Labour are Tories motivated to take direct action by malicious voting in the labour leadership election.

Since at least some of the problem was Labour voters choosing to support the SNP or UKIP I find this persistent 'Shy Tory' story somewhat pathetic.  Perhaps it is no more about shy Tories as shy ex-Labour voters.

It is interesting that the number eligible to vote in the Labour leadership election has risen from ~200K to just over 600K since the election was announced.  I wonder how many of that increase are people who would have voted Labour in the past but voted SNP/UKIP/Tory/Lib Dem or one of the other, smaller left wing parties in 2010 and/or 2015.

How many are paid-up members of one of the other parties, including but not exclusively Tory, who think that by messing the Labour Party up their party has a bigger chance of having influence, both in the current Parliament and following the 2020 General Election.

On a slightly different tack, a past Director of Communications for the Labour Party - interviewd on BBC Breakfast - said that he doesn't envisage any current Labour MPs defecting to the Lib-Dems should Corbyn win the election.  However, could we see an SDP-style split such that we end up with two 'Labour Parties' on ballot papers?

[jakswan]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33772024

There would be an end to austerity, higher taxes for the rich and protection for people on welfare. The Bank of England would be allowed to print money - People's Quantitative Easing - for "new large scale housing, energy, transport and digital projects". Mr Corbyn says this would create "a million skilled jobs and genuine apprenticeships" with knock-on boosts for the supply chain.

It's sounds idyllic its a pity that many of these policies don't work in reality.

[Hope]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33772024

There would be an end to austerity, higher taxes for the rich and protection for people on welfare. The Bank of England would be allowed to print money - People's Quantitative Easing - for "new large scale housing, energy, transport and digital projects". Mr Corbyn says this would create "a million skilled jobs and genuine apprenticeships" with knock-on boosts for the supply chain.

It's sounds idyllic its a pity that many of these policies don't work in reality.

I wonder how Coirbyn would defibne 'genuine apprenticeships'?  Is he saying that the thousands of apprenticeships run by the likes of IBM, Rover, and other large companies aren't genuine?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Given that the polls were wrong because a section of the electorate were serpentine about how they would vote and that section turned out to be Shy Tory one must wonder if the hundreds of thousands who have joined Labour are Tories motivated to take direct action by malicious voting in the labour leadership election.

Since at least some of the problem was Labour voters choosing to support the SNP or UKIP I find this persistent 'Shy Tory' story somewhat pathetic.  Perhaps it is no more about shy Tories as shy ex-Labour voters.

It is interesting that the number eligible to vote in the Labour leadership election has risen from ~200K to just over 600K since the election was announced.  I wonder how many of that increase are people who would have voted Labour in the past but voted SNP/UKIP/Tory/Lib Dem or one of the other, smaller left wing parties in 2010 and/or 2015.

How many are paid-up members of one of the other parties, including but not exclusively Tory, who think that by messing the Labour Party up their party has a bigger chance of having influence, both in the current Parliament and following the 2020 General Election.

On a slightly different tack, a past Director of Communications for the Labour Party - interviewd on BBC Breakfast - said that he doesn't envisage any current Labour MPs defecting to the Lib-Dems should Corbyn win the election.  However, could we see an SDP-style split such that we end up with two 'Labour Parties' on ballot papers?

Do you deny the serpentine behaviour of Shy Tories at the pre election polls and it's political significance?

If you are saying that Labour voters voting or abstaining like twats at the last election are suddenly becoming active labour people then that is not so good news for the tories I would have thought.

If you look at the polls now (presumably now more scientific) the tories are increasing their support. Even factoring in the suspension of tactical voting in the 2015 election that still leaves a massive block of Shy Tories prepared to use serpentine means to put the boot into labour. There is IMHO an obvious motivation for such activity....they don't want new homes built and are pulling up the ladder......just a hunch.

In terms of the creation of a third big party (Not sure about UKIP now) that's just things settling into equilibrium with the immediate reappearance of social democracy after a temporary extinguishing with the end of tactical voting in 2015. 

[Hope]

Do you deny the serpentine behaviour of Shy Tories at the pre election polls and it's political significance?

Evidence that there was even such a phenomenon prior to the election in May, please?

[Hope]

In terms of the creation of a third big party (Not sure about UKIP now) that's just things settling into equilibrium with the immediate reappearance of social democracy after a temporary extinguishing with the end of tactical voting in 2015.

What makes you think that there would be two 'big parties' rather than one if Labour were to split?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Do you deny the serpentine behaviour of Shy Tories at the pre election polls and it's political significance?

Evidence that there was even such a phenomenon prior to the election in May, please?

The polls suggested it was neck and neck.
The conservatives won the election.

[L.A.]

Do you deny the serpentine behaviour of Shy Tories at the pre election polls and it's political significance?

Evidence that there was even such a phenomenon prior to the election in May, please?

The polls suggested it was neck and neck.
The conservatives won the election.

I think there a number of factors that helped  Cameron to get in:

Miliband himself - not a natural leader and only there because of the union block vote.

Nicola Sturgeon - played the part of Bogeyman (or should that be bogeyperson) perfectly when she described how she was going to dictate her agenda to a Labour government.

Liam Byrne - he left that wonderful letter (so cherished by Cameron) effectively admitting that Labour has screwed things-up.

[wigginhall]

Watched Yvette Cooper last night on Newsnight.  Wow, she was poor.   A few random ideas, and burbling on about middle-aged white men in charge of the utilities - eh?  She also had the look of someone who knows they have lost.

Some wags are saying that Labour are upset that hundreds of thousands of new members have come along, and some of them are young, energetic, and full of ideas.   Well, we can't have that!

I notice also the Guardian slamming into Corbyn every day, sounding like the Wail, printing hysterical articles by Blair. 

At least, Corbyn has put the wind up various people, and it's entertaining to watch their reactions.   But Cooper, Burnham and Kendall remind me of sixth formers on an awayday, they just look immature in their politics and their reactions.  Labour is well and truly bankrupt.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Do you deny the serpentine behaviour of Shy Tories at the pre election polls and it's political significance?

Evidence that there was even such a phenomenon prior to the election in May, please?

The polls suggested it was neck and neck.
The conservatives won the election.

I think there a number of factors that helped  Cameron to get in:

Miliband himself - not a natural leader and only there because of the union block vote.

Nicola Sturgeon - played the part of Bogeyman (or should that be bogeyperson) perfectly when she described how she was going to dictate her agenda to a Labour government.

Liam Byrne - he left that wonderful letter (so cherished by Cameron) effectively admitting that Labour has screwed things-up.

Yes I pointed out they did get in. But this isn't about that this is about the behaviour of Shy Tories who gave the impression they would vote for labour and then voted tory.

There is at the present time another opportunity to look like your labour but are in fact anti labour.......and a whole swathe of the serpentine we know are prepared to do this.

I'm quite prepared to factor in a bit of English nationalism into Shy Toryism.

[L.A.]

Some wags are saying that Labour are upset that hundreds of thousands of new members have come along, and some of them are young, energetic, and full of ideas.   Well, we can't have that!

I suspect that a closer analysis might reveal that at lease a portion of these people are actually Tories 

[wigginhall]

Some wags are saying that Labour are upset that hundreds of thousands of new members have come along, and some of them are young, energetic, and full of ideas.   Well, we can't have that!

I suspect that a closer analysis might reveal that at lease a portion of these people are actually Tories 

Well, I suppose some people are corrupt enough to do that. 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Some wags are saying that Labour are upset that hundreds of thousands of new members have come along, and some of them are young, energetic, and full of ideas.   Well, we can't have that!

I suspect that a closer analysis might reveal that at lease a portion of these people are actually Tories 

Yes, serpentine behaviour would fit their profile

[L.A.]

Some wags are saying that Labour are upset that hundreds of thousands of new members have come along, and some of them are young, energetic, and full of ideas.   Well, we can't have that!

I suspect that a closer analysis might reveal that at lease a portion of these people are actually Tories 

Well, I suppose some people are corrupt enough to do that. 

Well Labour have effectively left a bit of an 'open goal' - what do they expect?

[L.A.]

. . . but doesn't it tell you something that the Tories want Corbyn to lead Labour ?

[Nearly Sane]

. . . but doesn't it tell you something that the Tories want Corbyn to lead Labour ?

It tells me what they might think, it doesn't necessarily mean they are right to think it, and I think they may be wrong.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Some wags are saying that Labour are upset that hundreds of thousands of new members have come along, and some of them are young, energetic, and full of ideas.   Well, we can't have that!

I suspect that a closer analysis might reveal that at lease a portion of these people are actually Tories 

But as a by product you will actually have politically motivated a section of people who have been wagged, ragged and shagged by Toryism for the past few years.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Politically Bewildered,

Dare I ask, oh I dare! Will Mr Corbyn work with the SNP, has he been asked this question, has our Nicola voiced an opinion, does it matter.

Gonnagle.

[L.A.]

Apparently for as little as three quid you can do your bit to assigning the Labour Party to the scrapheap.

[Nearly Sane]

Dear Politically Bewildered,

Dare I ask, oh I dare! Will Mr Corbyn work with the SNP, has he been asked this question, has our Nicola voiced an opinion, does it matter.

Gonnagle.

The indications from Corbyn is that he will, certainly he won't abstain to help the govt.


I think Nicola is wisely staying out of it.