Re-nationalisation of industries - Corbyn

[Shaker]

Apparently for as little as three quid you can do your bit to assigning the Labour Party to the scrapheap.

Given what has happened to the Labour Party since Blair got his hands on it, that's precisely where it deserves to be.

[L.A.]

Dear Politically Bewildered,

Dare I ask, oh I dare! Will Mr Corbyn work with the SNP, has he been asked this question, has our Nicola voiced an opinion, does it matter.

Gonnagle.

The indications from Corbyn is that he will, certainly he won't abstain to help the govt.


I think Nicola is wisely staying out of it.

But saying things like that won't help him South of the border, quite the reverse.

[Nearly Sane]

Apparently for as little as three quid you can do your bit to assigning the Labour Party to the scrapheap.

Or save it dependent on one's viewpoint. Given that none of the candiadtes will do that in my opinion, the overdramatisation of Corbyn's effect is of questionable worth. The real problem they face now is that even should another candidate win, the mutterings from MPs like Simon Danczuk have created an atmosphere that almost guarantees some form of split.

[Nearly Sane]

But saying things like that won't help him South of the border, quite the reverse.

It depends - part of the reason the Tories profited from people not wanting an SNP/Lab coalition was Labour connived at the portrayal of the SNP as bogeypeople because of what was happening in Scotland.

The supine passivity of abstaining that Labour started after the election is a guarantee that no one will end up taking them as a credible opposition.

[L.A.]

Apparently for as little as three quid you can do your bit to assigning the Labour Party to the scrapheap.

Or save it dependent on one's viewpoint. Given that none of the candiadtes will do that in my opinion, the overdramatisation of Corbyn's effect is of questionable worth. The real problem they face now is that Even should another candiadte win, the mutterings from MPs like Simon Danczuk have created an atmosphere that almost guarantees some form of split.

Assuming he doesn't perform a rapid U-turn on virtually all his policies (which I wouldn't totally rule out, he is a politician after all)- a Corbyn leadership would make the Labour party unelectable and probably cause a split.

That might not finish Labour forever, but it would be a long hard recovery.

[jeremyp]

Assuming he doesn't perform a rapid U-turn on virtually all his policies (which I wouldn't totally rule out, he is a politician after all)- a Corbyn leadership would make the Labour party unelectable

And they are electable now are they? 

[L.A.]

Assuming he doesn't perform a rapid U-turn on virtually all his policies (which I wouldn't totally rule out, he is a politician after all)- a Corbyn leadership would make the Labour party unelectable

And they are electable now are they?

They are at a cross-roads, potentially they could become electable or they could go with Corbyn.

[jeremyp]

They are at a cross-roads, potentially they could become electable or they could go with Corbyn.

I can't see it to be honest.  None of the current crop of candidates seems to have the charisma to lead a political party.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Assuming he doesn't perform a rapid U-turn on virtually all his policies (which I wouldn't totally rule out, he is a politician after all)- a Corbyn leadership would make the Labour party unelectable

And they are electable now are they?

They are at a cross-roads, potentially they could become electable or they could go with Corbyn.

Their electability would then surely have to depend on the Tories being voted out rather than labour voted in.

How would that happen given the almost bottomless stock of forgiveness for Gid and Dave?

[L.A.]

They are at a cross-roads, potentially they could become electable or they could go with Corbyn.

I can't see it to be honest.  None of the current crop of candidates seems to have the charisma to lead a political party.

I must admit none of them seem that impressive, but it's difficult to judge. Sometimes people can grow into a leadership role (though not Miliband obviously)

[Walt Zingmatilder]

They are at a cross-roads, potentially they could become electable or they could go with Corbyn.

I can't see it to be honest.  None of the current crop of candidates seems to have the charisma to lead a political party.

But Corbyn does seem to. Supposing that the new labour membership is not all Serpentine Shy Tory. That a few hundred thousand HAVE been motivated to become active politically. Then that would certainly spell some kind of attraction by Corbyn and some kind of charisma...again. That only holds true of course of the new labour members aren't in fact Tories.

If Corbyn is getting members the job of the next labour leader will be to hang onto and maintain the genuine membership. Who to quote Cam will be ''pumped''. After all Jeremy could quite easily only remain for a couple of years and then retire with honour leaving the leadership to someone less alarming.

[Nearly Sane]

Assuming he doesn't perform a rapid U-turn on virtually all his policies (which I wouldn't totally rule out, he is a politician after all)- a Corbyn leadership would make the Labour party unelectable and probably cause a split.

That might not finish Labour forever, but it would be a long hard recovery.

It isn't and never was going to win next time unless the Tories split. I disagree that it's a simple equation to say Corbyn would make it uneleable - I think it would be possible in certain conditions as I don't think the position that a left party cannot win is that clear. I think his election will cause a split, but in part due to the behaviour of some opposing him, I think the election of anyone will cause a split.

In one sense the election itself is a mere symptom of the problem and whoever is elected is a footnote in history

[L.A.]

Assuming he doesn't perform a rapid U-turn on virtually all his policies (which I wouldn't totally rule out, he is a politician after all)- a Corbyn leadership would make the Labour party unelectable

And they are electable now are they?

They are at a cross-roads, potentially they could become electable or they could go with Corbyn.

Their electability would then surely have to depend on the Tories being voted out rather than labour voted in.

How would that happen given the almost bottomless stock of forgiveness for Gid and Dave?

The way British politics tends to work Vlad, is that the opposition tries to appear as a credible alternative to the Government. When a government screw-up, it is a golden opportunity for the opposition to tell everyone how they would have done things better. When it comes to an election the electorate make a judgement on who is going to govern next.

However - if the opposition consists of a disorganised rabble totally out of touch with the real world - then the government can get-away with all kinds of mistakes - and remain in power.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Assuming he doesn't perform a rapid U-turn on virtually all his policies (which I wouldn't totally rule out, he is a politician after all)- a Corbyn leadership would make the Labour party unelectable

And they are electable now are they?

They are at a cross-roads, potentially they could become electable or they could go with Corbyn.

Their electability would then surely have to depend on the Tories being voted out rather than labour voted in.

How would that happen given the almost bottomless stock of forgiveness for Gid and Dave?

The way British politics tends to work Vlad, is that the opposition tries to appear as a credible alternative to the Government. When a government screw-up, it is a golden opportunity for the opposition to tell everyone how they would have done things better. When it comes to an election the electorate make a judgement on who is going to govern next.

However - if the opposition consists of a disorganised rabble totally out of touch with the real world - then the government can get-away with all kinds of mistakes - and remain in power.

That ignores the almost bottomless stock of forgiveness for Conservative mistakes, lapsed.

I don't recall Tony Blair being voted in as much as the Tories voted out because they were cyclically past their sell by date.

Hats off to Gid that he changed the perception of the real world circa 2010 when there was a bit of a recovery going on and people were used to a fairly decent lifestyle to a real world where Darwinian factors are very much in play and the only bit of quasi assurance of work is to accept a pay cut.

Unfortunately, Yer English voter now ''knows their place.''

[L.A.]

It isn't and never was going to win next time unless the Tories split. I disagree that it's a simple equation to say Corbyn would make it uneleable - I think it would be possible in certain conditions as I don't think the position that a left party cannot win is that clear.

A Tory split is always a possibility, especially with the EU referendum on the horizon, but Labour need to be ready to exploit such an opportunity. If they are fighting amongst themselves, they can't do that.

I think his election will cause a split, but in part due to the behaviour of some opposing him, I think the election of anyone will cause a split.

But those who oppose Corbyn have their own vision of where the party needs to go and have every right to pursue it - and many would say it's the only way forward for the party.

[Hope]

That only holds true of course of the new labour members aren't in fact Tories.

And we know from several sources that they aren't.  Many are coming from left of Labour - and others are coming from other left of centre perspectives.

[L.A.]

That ignores the almost bottomless stock of forgiveness for Conservative mistakes, lapsed.

And they got away with them because the opposition at the time were a disorganised bunch of idiots.

[jakswan]

Some wags are saying that Labour are upset that hundreds of thousands of new members have come along, and some of them are young, energetic, and full of ideas.   Well, we can't have that!

I suspect that a closer analysis might reveal that at lease a portion of these people are actually Tories 

Yes, serpentine behaviour would fit their profile

This is the mindset that will destroy Labour, I have voted Tory in the past not because I'm an evil but because I thought they had better policies I've also voted Labour as well.

Labour to win has to appeal to the middle ground.

[jakswan]

They are at a cross-roads, potentially they could become electable or they could go with Corbyn.

I can't see it to be honest.  None of the current crop of candidates seems to have the charisma to lead a political party.

I quite like JC he comes across as a nice man and has charisma in his own way, his policies whilst being well intentioned I think will do a lot of harm.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

That ignores the almost bottomless stock of forgiveness for Conservative mistakes, lapsed.

And they got away with them because the opposition at the time were a disorganised bunch of idiots.

No, it's to do with the english political cycle since errors are cumulative and can be remembered and resurrected. Let's not forget ''Dave and Sue'' have a pride mistaken for wisdom of running with something until it's turdity becomes arseclenchingly obvious.

[BashfulAnthony]

They are at a cross-roads, potentially they could become electable or they could go with Corbyn.

I can't see it to be honest.  None of the current crop of candidates seems to have the charisma to lead a political party.

I quite like JC he comes across as a nice man and has charisma in his own way, his policies whilst being well intentioned I think will do a lot of harm.

"This is the man who sympathised with violent Irish Republicanism in the 1980s, invited IRA representatives to the Commons a fortnight after the Brighton bombing in 1984 and, at a Troops Out meeting in 1987, stood for a minute’s silence to “honour” eight IRA terrorists killed in an SAS ambush.   I wonder how many people are aware of his sympathies in this regard?  I wonder how many have ever bothered to find out any of his political stances, and not just his leadership hype.  In an interview on Channel 4 last month he said,  "I spoke at a meeting about the Middle East crisis in Parliament and there were people there from Hezbollah and I said I welcomed our friends."
Is this the man we want to have influence over our dealings with murderous terrorist."

Not so nice, perhaps!

[Outrider]

"This is the man who sympathised with violent Irish Republicanism in the 1980s, invited IRA representatives to the Commons a fortnight after the Brighton bombing in 1984 and, at a Troops Out meeting in 1987, stood for a minute’s silence to “honour” eight IRA terrorists killed in an SAS ambush.   I wonder how many people are aware of his sympathies in this regard?  I wonder how many have ever bothered to find out any of his political stances, and not just his leadership hype.  In an interview on Channel 4 last month he said,  "I spoke at a meeting about the Middle East crisis in Parliament and there were people there from Hezbollah and I said I welcomed our friends."
Is this the man we want to have influence over our dealings with murderous terrorist."

Not so nice, perhaps!

I've not seen him comment on the IRA situation, so anything I add will be conjecture.

His commentary on Hezbollah and Hamas is as I suspected it would be. He disagrees with their methods - openly - but rightly suggests that unless all sides are talking there will never be a peace.

Whether he thinks in a similar fashion of the IRA situation who knows, but perhaps he was merely ahead of his time. People openly stand with the likes of Gerry Adams these days, and whilst there are occasional splinter groups making problems for people, in general the peace is holding.

Do I want someone who is willing to talk to hostile forces rather than either bombing them or sending weapons to unstable regimes so that they can bomb people for us in the hope they'll forget how to use them when it comes to bombing our allies or civilians... you know what, yes, I think that is the sort of person I'd like in control.

Is he good enough in the other areas... that's questionable.

O.

O.

[Nearly Sane]

It isn't and never was going to win next time unless the Tories split. I disagree that it's a simple equation to say Corbyn would make it uneleable - I think it would be possible in certain conditions as I don't think the position that a left party cannot win is that clear.

A Tory split is always a possibility, especially with the EU referendum on the horizon, but Labour need to be ready to exploit such an opportunity. If they are fighting amongst themselves, they can't do that.

I think his election will cause a split, but in part due to the behaviour of some opposing him, I think the election of anyone will cause a split.

But those who oppose Corbyn have their own vision of where the party needs to go and have every right to pursue it - and many would say it's the only way forward for the party.

I'm not so sure I'd call it a vision but that's not really the point here - it has been those opposing Corbyn who have been acting as if he and his supporters have no right to pursue their vision, and I think that will cause problems.

[Hope]

A Tory split is always a possibility, especially with the EU referendum on the horizon, but Labour need to be ready to exploit such an opportunity. If they are fighting amongst themselves, they can't do that.

I doubt whether there will be a Tory 'split'.  There may be defections to UKIP, but I doubt that we will end up with two parties claiming to be the 'real' Tory party.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

They are at a cross-roads, potentially they could become electable or they could go with Corbyn.

I can't see it to be honest.  None of the current crop of candidates seems to have the charisma to lead a political party.

But Corbyn does seem to. Supposing that the new labour membership is not all Serpentine Shy Tory. That a few hundred thousand HAVE been motivated to become active politically. Then that would certainly spell some kind of attraction by Corbyn and some kind of charisma...again. That only holds true of course of the new labour members aren't in fact Tories.

If Corbyn is getting members the job of the next labour leader will be to hang onto and maintain the genuine membership. Who to quote Cam will be ''pumped''. After all Jeremy could quite easily only remain for a couple of years and then retire with honour leaving the leadership to someone less alarming.

They are at a cross-roads, potentially they could become electable or they could go with Corbyn.

I can't see it to be honest.  None of the current crop of candidates seems to have the charisma to lead a political party.

I quite like JC he comes across as a nice man and has charisma in his own way, his policies whilst being well intentioned I think will do a lot of harm.

That's a possibility.
If he goes for a traditional doctrinaire lefty approach chasing old problems as Kendall seems to be suggesting. Yes.

If he can be the Salmond/Sturgeon of England, and convince that the real end of the Conservative Agenda is a return to the thirties, with the UK as a kind of Disneyland for international capitalists, with similar politics and motivational skill then he will be offering an alternative.