Corn circles are back

[SweetPea]

Well, were you really going to take it on board if aliens/ETs/fallen was mentioned? For years I wouldn't have done either, until I did some research and found people talking about false and genuine circles. So, could it be a possibility? There is a wealth of information on extra-terrestrial activity. The guys in this interview give a very detailed account of their findings, as crop circle researchers. They explain the difference between a man-made circle and what they call a genuine circle including measuring radiation in 'genuine' circles.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGINaFYmMSo

The interview is in two 47mins parts and in places rather laborious, so I'll try and break it down for anyone interested:

- Part 1 starts with what they think is the origin of crop circles, so if you want to skip
  to 'false' or 'genuine' got 6:55mins.
- From the above time a lot of detail for nearly 20mins on man-made circles, so you could
  jump to 25:30mins to hear about the famous Milk Hill circle that they refer to as genuine.
- The start of Part 2 is interesting re 'genuine' circles.
- From 40:30mins they talk about who they think created the 'genuine' circles.

ETA: re hermetics..... can't believe the number of this post!

 

[jeremyp]

There seems to be circular reasoning here.  How do they tell what a genuine circle is?

[Maeght]

Two guys who believe in UFOs and see 'genuine' crop circles as support for this.

[Rhiannon]

As Jeremy says, they are all genuine - they are all circles/patterns and they are all made in crops. It's their origin that is in dispute.

[SusanDoris]

I wonder how those who think that ETs made the circles explain how they travelled here, how they managed to time it just right so that the crops were at a suitable stage for being worked on, and whether they stick around to take the photos and collect the profits made from such photos!

[floo]

I wonder how those who think that ETs made the circles explain how they travelled here, how they managed to time it just right so that the crops were at a suitable stage for being worked on, and whether they stick around to take the photos and collect the profits made from such photos!

The deity was directing them!

[Harrowby Hall]

Isn't it strange how crop circles only occur in places where there is relatively easy access? You would think that alien circle croppers would be able to lower their flying saucers onto any place imaginable.

I had a look at the Skeptic's Dictionary entry on crop circles:

Had crop circles existed in the thirteenth century, they would have been attributed to Satan, who was said to have been responsible for many weird happenings as well as for many unweird things, such as the construction of Stonehenge and Hadrian's wall between England and Scotland. It was believed by many that the ancients could not possibly have accomplished such feats on their own. Today, Satan's power as an explanation for weird or wondrous things has been usurped by aliens.

Isn't credulity wonderful?

[Rhiannon]

Plenty of Christians still think Satan is the reason for paganism.

[BashfulAnthony]

Plenty of Christians still think Satan is the reason for paganism.

I honestly have never come across anybody who suggested such a thing.  My experience is that nobody much gives paganism a second thought.  You always seem to know all these Christians who have these odd beliefs.  How come nobody else seems to move in such circles?

[SweetPea]

Well, I guess we'll have to wait for NASA to declare aliens may exist.
When there is plenty of evidence, albeit much undisclosed, from not just the man on the street but what is considered 'reliable' sources i.e. the air force, the military and the constabulary. Also scientists.... Steven Greer is a good place to start.

I was interested in the researchers finding radiation in the 'genuine' circles. Someone I know from years ago, explored a crop circle with some friends and two of them became very sick afterwards. Radiation sickness? Who knows.

Also, the designs are interesting. Some researchers say they can be de-coded. Looking at the design of the circle that Rose linked to, it resembles an eagle. Well, think of the state of the world today rushing further and further into fascism..... what could an eagle represent? The Nazi insignia? Again, who knows.... just some fun, playing with some thoughts.   

[Maeght]

Well, I guess we'll have to wait for NASA to declare aliens may exist.
When there is plenty of evidence, albeit much undisclosed, from not just the man on the street but what is considered 'reliable' sources i.e. the air force, the military and the constabulary.

How do you know there is plenty of evidence if it is mostly undisclosed?

Also scientists.... Steven Greer is a good place to start.

Greer is a former medical doctor who had an experience as a child which made him believe in UFOs. Not really an independent scientist investigating phenomena.

I was interested in the researchers finding radiation in the 'genuine' circles.

Such measurements certainly require consideration and investigation if genuine.  Deciding they are evidence of aliens is a big leap.

Someone I know from years ago, explored a crop circle with some friends and two of them became very sick afterwards. Radiation sickness? Who knows.

Most probably not.

Also, the designs are interesting. Some researchers say they can be de-coded.

People make all sorts of claims.

Looking at the design of the circle that Rose linked to, it resembles an eagle. Well, think of the state of the world today rushing further and further into fascism..... what could an eagle represent? The Nazi insignia? Again, who knows.... just some fun, playing with some thoughts.

An eagle doesn't make me think of the Nazis.

Have fun with your vivid imagination Sweetpea - just don't believe everything you read on the internet.

[Outrider]

Well, I guess we'll have to wait for NASA to declare aliens may exist.

NASA has already conceded that aliens may exist, that's why they put plates of communication data on the Voyager probes, and why they co-operate with SETI, amongst others.

You mean wait for NASA to confirm that aliens have visited Earth, or that they have direct evidence for alien life, that's a completely different prospect.

When there is plenty of evidence, albeit much undisclosed, from not just the man on the street but what is considered 'reliable' sources i.e. the air force, the military and the constabulary. Also scientists.... Steven Greer is a good place to start.

If someone says there is evidence, but it's undisclosed, that's just as much rumour as if they just make the initial claim themselves.

I was interested in the researchers finding radiation in the 'genuine' circles. Someone I know from years ago, explored a crop circle with some friends and two of them became very sick afterwards. Radiation sickness? Who knows.

If they had any sort of medical treatment for their illness then their doctor knows. Radiation sickness, if it's significant enough to affect them that close to their exposure that they explicitly make the link, is likely to be severe enough that it can't be mistaken for anything else. Of course, people traipsing about in cold fields for hours on end have other possible causes of illness...

Also, the designs are interesting. Some researchers say they can be de-coded. Looking at the design of the circle that Rose linked to, it resembles an eagle. Well, think of the state of the world today rushing further and further into fascism..... what could an eagle represent? The Nazi insignia? Again, who knows.... just some fun, playing with some thoughts.

The designs meaning something indicates an intelligent cause - I don't think many people are questioning the idea there's an intelligence behind crop circles, just whether the intelligence is an extra-terrestrial one.

O.

[Rhiannon]

Plenty of Christians still think Satan is the reason for paganism.

I honestly have never come across anybody who suggested such a thing.  My experience is that nobody much gives paganism a second thought.  You always seem to know all these Christians who have these odd beliefs.  How come nobody else seems to move in such circles?

You need to read some of the stuff one or two posters put on here.

[Harrowby Hall]

Some interesting stuff on crop circles - if you search for it. The references at the end of the Wikipedia entry are useful.

One researcher, Northcote, from a university in Australia did an analysis of the locations of crop circles in England in 2002. He noted that there was a cluster of circles around Avebury, most other circles appeared to be fairly close to areas of large population, and that the presence of major roads, such as the M1 and A1 appeared to be important factors in location.

It would seem bizarre that aliens would require the AA Road Atlas to find their way around.

Another thought has occurred to me. When do crop circles appear? Do the occur in winter? If not, why not? Do they occur in spring or autumn? If not, why not? Do they occur in anything much other than valuable farmed crops? If not, why not? Can we conclude from this that aliens are concerned about our diet?

A principle in scientific analysis is that of parsimony: if there are more than one explanations of a phenomenon, then consider the the most parsimonious explanation to be the most likely until it is demonstrated to be inappropriate - Occam's Razor is a version of this.

Which is likely to be the more parsimonious explanation for this non-randomly distributed, seasonal, crop-selective phenomenon? Hoaxers or aliens?

[SweetPea]

Maeght #36 -  I don't blame you if you didn't watch the whole interview with the crop circle researchers, it was long and, as I said, rather laborious in places; but re them finding radiation in some circles, they mentioned there was an occasion when they went to visit a circle and found a military helicopter hovering over it lowering people into the centre. So, they were saying the government were interested in something, it seems.

Outy #37.... welcome back! Long time no see.... hope all is well with you and yours.
You must don your white coat (hope you are working on getting one, if you still don't have one ) and look-up Steven Greer's work. He was a medical doctor, as Maeght points out, but he is also founder of the Centre for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence and The Disclosure Project and has done a ton of research on this subject.

Harrowby #39 - I just love all the intrigue.... 'tis fun!
You mentioned crop circles at Avebury. The researchers said they thought the fact there are ley lines in that area had some significance to circles being in the vicinity.

[Maeght]

I watched a lot of it - mostly speculation and opinion from people who believe in UFOs but who have no scientific qualifications and have not carried out any research which could be considered as scientific. They said they found a military helicopter lowering people into a circle but is there any evidence that it happened if it did what it was about? The Centre for Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence and The Disclosure Project have collected reports of UFOs and the like. They have pushed for 'disclosure' but have not come up with anything not already known and have achieved nothing as far as I can tell.

Ley lines! Do you really believe in them too Sweetpea?

[Harrowby Hall]

SweetPea

Ley lines? Why are you so credulous?

The link below (sorry it's so long) takes you to a piece from Ben Goldacre's Bad Science column in the Guardian.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/jan/16/ben-goldacre-bad-science-aliens-woolworths

You do know that the Loch Ness Monster has finally been found? They lured it from its deep underwater hideout by using deep-fried Mars Bars as a bait.

ftp tags removed from Guardian link. Cut and paste for access

[SweetPea]

Dearie me..... you lads are no fun.

[SusanDoris]

Harrowby Hall

#39 Good post!

How did you make the link clickable in #42?  I've just clicked on it although it came up with one of the Info Icons to say it couldn't be found.

[jeremyp]

Harrowby Hall

#39 Good post!

How did you make the link clickable in #42?  I've just clicked on it although it came up with one of the Info Icons to say it couldn't be found.

He used ftp tags instead of url tags but it doesn't work because you get an ftp url instead of an http url.

[Harrowby Hall]

Harrowby Hall

#39 Good post!

How did you make the link clickable in #42?  I've just clicked on it although it came up with one of the Info Icons to say it couldn't be found.

He used ftp tags instead of url tags but it doesn't work because you get an ftp url instead of an http url.

Yes, Jeremyp, forgive me. I used the tool: second box along immediately above the row of smilies. But I didn't bother to check that it worked. Sorry. Now amended.

[Rhiannon]

There's a third explanation aside from hoaxers/aliens. I think I read somewhere that for some who create the circles it's a kind of art form. I suppose they are the carrot cruncher's Banksys.

[SusanDoris]

Thank you, JeremyP and HH.

[floo]

There's a third explanation aside from hoaxers/aliens. I think I read somewhere that for some who create the circles it's a kind of art form. I suppose they are the carrot cruncher's Banksys.

I have heard that too.