Real God

[Rhiannon]

I have mentioned many times that spirituality is indistinguishable from self development.  Trying to become a 'better person'  or trying to control the selfish nature are the same thing.

If we all become like Jesus for example, we would all be godlike. 

The point is that this 'better nature' already exists within us and is not something we need to take in from outside. Its not about learning to be better....its rather about removing the selfish nature to uncover the 'better nature'.

For me the selfish nature comes from fear and low self respect, and is learned from infancy. We all have stories that we believe that are handed to us by others - parents, grandparents, siblings, friends, teachers, peers - and usually these stories are negative - we are not good enough in some way. These beliefs manifest in different ways - we might be an over-achiever, a compulsive spender, a people pleaser, a rescuer, an abuser or an abuse victim, a perfectionist, a slob. Self development is about changing those stories and seeing who we really are. Lose the fear of not being good enough and you not only lose the selfishness, but you are better placed to contribute to the wellbeing of others because you are at ease with yourself.

[BashfulAnthony]

I have mentioned many times that spirituality is indistinguishable from self development.  Trying to become a 'better person'  or trying to control the selfish nature are the same thing.

If we all become like Jesus for example, we would all be godlike. 

The point is that this 'better nature' already exists within us and is not something we need to take in from outside. Its not about learning to be better....its rather about removing the selfish nature to uncover the 'better nature'.

For me the selfish nature comes from fear and low self respect, and is learned from infancy. We all have stories that we believe that are handed to us by others - parents, grandparents, siblings, friends, teachers, peers - and usually these stories are negative - we are not good enough in some way. These beliefs manifest in different ways - we might be an over-achiever, a compulsive spender, a people pleaser, a rescuer, an abuser or an abuse victim, a perfectionist, a slob. Self development is about changing those stories and seeing who we really are. Lose the fear of not being good enough and you not only lose the selfishness, but you are better placed to contribute to the wellbeing of others because you are at ease with yourself.

We all need to lighten up.  I know I am at peace with myself.  For example: I do not have any faults; or perhaps just the one: modesty.   

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

'Knowing oneself' is such a complex matter that every individual will understand it in his/her own way.

I understand it as becoming aware of the subject  that sees and experiences all of life.  Through a process of  Neti Neti (not this...not this) that was mentioned in the thread on 'Tat Tvam Asi', ... we arrive at the subject that is the final observer.... always observing but never observed.

After all life's experiences,  after all sorrow and desires,  after all successes and failures, after all duties and responsibilities, after all questions and theories, after all rituals and prayers, after all meditations and mind control...we finally arrive at the centre, the light within....the true Self.

Once we experience that, everything else falls away as an illusion.....only the Self remains. This is what according to me, the 'Know Thyself' refers to.

Cheers.

Sriram 

[Udayana]

Sounds like a fantasy Sriram.

Has anyone has ever arrived anywhere? It's just a dream that there is somewhere to arrive.

[SweetPea]

Re arriving 'home'.... it's about losing all the baggage we have gained throughout life, deprogramming ourselves from all the misinformation and disinformation and stuff that has made us 'slaves to the system'; and once more returning to how we started out.... 'taint easy, but can be achievable.

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

Just because I say that the real God is within.....it does not mean that everyone should necessarily understand it that way. Our individualistic mind is such that it always looks externally. Only after a certain stage of self development does the mind automatically become introspective. 

So...believing in an external God is natural and inevitable for most people.  Imagination, beliefs, mythology etc. are part of this. 

Over time, the process of praying and trying to unite with the external God  reduces our individualistic mindset and brings out the God within. All the rituals we practice through religion are also important to discipline the ego mind. So...religions and their practices are important for the process of Self Realization to happen.

That is why in Hinduism...even though Self Realization is the fundamental principle and aim of life....any form of worship or ritual is accepted as a useful method of mind control and self discipline.  Three major paths to realization are accepted (among others).... Path of wisdom, Path of devotion, Path of service.  Anything that works for the individual.

So....nothing wrong in people following their traditional religious practices. They do not in any way conflict with the principle of Self development and Self Realization....in fact, they aid the process.
 
Cheers.

Sriram

[torridon]

Hi everyone,

Just because I say that the real God is within.....it does not mean that everyone should necessarily understand it that way. Our individualistic mind is such that it always looks externally. Only after a certain stage of self development does the mind automatically become introspective. 

So...believing in an external God is natural and inevitable for most people.  Imagination, beliefs, mythology etc. are part of this. 

Over time, the process of praying and trying to unite with the external God  reduces our individualistic mindset and brings out the God within. All the rituals we practice through religion are also important to discipline the ego mind. So...religions and their practices are important for the process of Self Realization to happen.

That is why in Hinduism...even though Self Realization is the fundamental principle and aim of life....any form of worship or ritual is accepted as a useful method of mind control and self discipline.  Three major paths to realization are accepted (among others).... Path of wisdom, Path of devotion, Path of service.  Anything that works for the individual.

So....nothing wrong in people following their traditional religious practices. They do not in any way conflict with the principle of Self development and Self Realization....in fact, they aid the process.
 
Cheers.

Sriram

Good that Hinduism is tolerant in that respect. Does it recognise as similarly valid more modern secular derivates such as mindfulness practice ?

[Sriram]

Good that Hinduism is tolerant in that respect. Does it recognise as similarly valid more modern secular derivates such as mindfulness practice ?

What modern derivatives?  Mindfiul meditation is a Buddhist practice taught in the Mahasatipatana Sutra...which is derived from the Samatha tradition of Raja Yoga! 

Yoga is today literally producing dozens of variants!  Even in ancient Hindu traditions...many variants of Yoga and meditations have been produced by different people over the centuries.

Anything that works...as I said.  The point is to control the conscious mind and its authority the ego. Nothing sacrosanct about any particular practice.   

[Hope]

The point about Christians trying to be like Jesus is very relevant. That is one way of realizing the higher nature. Everyone eventually should become like Jesus....that's the point.  That is the God within.....and that is Self Realization.

No, it isn't - or at least it isn't what Jesus taught.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Hope,

What isn't, I don't see a argument against what Sriram is saying.

In fact what I am seeing from all the major Christian religions is an effort to be more like Hinduism, a open hand of friendship no matter what religion you follow.

I listened to one of your CoE priests, Peter Owen Jones ( the guy who looks like Jesus ) he stated that we must step away from conversion, for me he was saying, be more open to how others come to God.

Gonnagle.

[Hope]

I listened to one of your CoE priests, Peter Owen Jones ( the guy who looks like Jesus ) he stated that we must step away from conversion, for me he was saying, be more open to how others come to God.

Yet the problem is that what POJ says doesn't match up with Jesus' own teaching.  I tend to take any teaching that doesn't match Jesus' with a pretty sizeable pinch of salt.

[floo]

I listened to one of your CoE priests, Peter Owen Jones ( the guy who looks like Jesus ) he stated that we must step away from conversion, for me he was saying, be more open to how others come to God.

Yet the problem is that what POJ says doesn't match up with Jesus' own teaching.  I tend to take any teaching that doesn't match Jesus' with a pretty sizeable pinch of salt.

But you don't know for sure that anything attributed to Jesus has any veracity, especially as it was written down so many years after he died.

[Sriram]

The point about Christians trying to be like Jesus is very relevant. That is one way of realizing the higher nature. Everyone eventually should become like Jesus....that's the point.  That is the God within.....and that is Self Realization.

No, it isn't - or at least it isn't what Jesus taught.

You don't even accept the Gnostic gospels (Nag Hammadi) as the teachings of Jesus. So...if you prefer to hold on to some edited version of Jesus's teachings what can be done?

In any case , people of all religions need to realize that their religion is a product of the culture of a particular community at a particular time.   We need to develop an understanding of life based on what is relevant to all people for all time. 

[Gonnagle]

Dear Hope,

I am the Way the Truth and the Life, no One comes to the Father.....

Yes that is a sticking point for Christians, I can only hope personally, that I am forgiven for not denouncing anyones path to the Father.

Gonnagle.

Gonnagle.

[Sebastian Toe]

Dear ekim,

A temporary god, usually leads to the worship of the god of hangovers 

Gonnagle.

.......... Irnbru the Great? 

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

Just because I say that the real God is within.....it does not mean that everyone should necessarily understand it that way. Our individualistic mind is such that it always looks externally. Only after a certain stage of self development does the mind automatically become introspective. 

So...believing in an external God is natural and inevitable for most people.  Imagination, beliefs, mythology etc. are part of this. 

Over time, the process of praying and trying to unite with the external God  reduces our individualistic mindset and brings out the God within. All the rituals we practice through religion are also important to discipline the ego mind. So...religions and their practices are important for the process of Self Realization to happen.

That is why in Hinduism...even though Self Realization is the fundamental principle and aim of life....any form of worship or ritual is accepted as a useful method of mind control and self discipline.  Three major paths to realization are accepted (among others).... Path of wisdom, Path of devotion, Path of service.  Anything that works for the individual.

So....nothing wrong in people following their traditional religious practices. They do not in any way conflict with the principle of Self development and Self Realization....in fact, they aid the process.
 
Cheers.

Sriram

Good that Hinduism is tolerant in that respect. Does it recognise as similarly valid more modern secular derivates such as mindfulness practice ?

Its not just about being 'tolerant'. Its about the base philosophy that covers all religious practices and traditions and is able to explain life and spirituality in a secular manner relevant to all humans and even non humans.

[trippymonkey]

Tolerant is an awful word.
It means I don't REALLY like you but I'll BEAR you for the sake of non-battle !!!!

Acceptance, for me, is a much better word. It means the speaker is aware of others' opinions too & 'respects' that, even if they're not for THEM !! NO?

Certain posters here could do well to draw in their egos & arrogance & they might well calm down inside !?!!??

Nick

[torridon]

Hi everyone,

'Knowing oneself' is such a complex matter that every individual will understand it in his/her own way.

I understand it as becoming aware of the subject  that sees and experiences all of life.  Through a process of  Neti Neti (not this...not this) that was mentioned in the thread on 'Tat Tvam Asi', ... we arrive at the subject that is the final observer.... always observing but never observed.

After all life's experiences,  after all sorrow and desires,  after all successes and failures, after all duties and responsibilities, after all questions and theories, after all rituals and prayers, after all meditations and mind control...we finally arrive at the centre, the light within....the true Self.

Once we experience that, everything else falls away as an illusion.....only the Self remains. This is what according to me, the 'Know Thyself' refers to.

Cheers.

Sriram

The Self is also an illusion though, in all likelihood

[ekim]

Hi everyone,

'Knowing oneself' is such a complex matter that every individual will understand it in his/her own way.

I understand it as becoming aware of the subject  that sees and experiences all of life.  Through a process of  Neti Neti (not this...not this) that was mentioned in the thread on 'Tat Tvam Asi', ... we arrive at the subject that is the final observer.... always observing but never observed.

After all life's experiences,  after all sorrow and desires,  after all successes and failures, after all duties and responsibilities, after all questions and theories, after all rituals and prayers, after all meditations and mind control...we finally arrive at the centre, the light within....the true Self.

Once we experience that, everything else falls away as an illusion.....only the Self remains. This is what according to me, the 'Know Thyself' refers to.

Cheers.

Sriram

The Self is also an illusion though, in all likelihood

In all probability it will be, once the mind tries to create a concept of it.  Part of the problem in discussing the 'Self' is that it frequently gets turned into an object.  You can see it happening in Sriram's post : 'we arrive at the subject' ... there is 'we' and there is 'subject' .... 'we arrive at the Centre'  'we experience that'.  Even 'know thyself' seems to imply a knower and a self.

[Sriram]

The self remains an object till we identify with it. After that it becomes the subject. While discussing it, it will naturally be an object. 

I am out of town and may not be able to discuss for a couple of days.

[trippymonkey]

Re what this thread is all about, have just watched from last night on BBC 4, a really good prog about the Oracle Of Delphi.
And what should be written on the inside as you go in to the very temple itself....?

KNOW THYSELF !!!!

[Shaker]

The self remains an object till we identify with it. After that it becomes the subject. While discussing it, it will naturally be an object. 

That's, like, deep, man ... real deep.

Anybody got any Pringles?

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

'Knowing oneself' is such a complex matter that every individual will understand it in his/her own way.

I understand it as becoming aware of the subject  that sees and experiences all of life.  Through a process of  Neti Neti (not this...not this) that was mentioned in the thread on 'Tat Tvam Asi', ... we arrive at the subject that is the final observer.... always observing but never observed.

After all life's experiences,  after all sorrow and desires,  after all successes and failures, after all duties and responsibilities, after all questions and theories, after all rituals and prayers, after all meditations and mind control...we finally arrive at the centre, the light within....the true Self.

Once we experience that, everything else falls away as an illusion.....only the Self remains. This is what according to me, the 'Know Thyself' refers to.

Cheers.

Sriram

The Self is also an illusion though, in all likelihood

An illusion for whom?!

[torridon]

The Self is also an illusion though, in all likelihood

An illusion for whom?!

That's an illustration of how deeply ingrained, how compelling, the illusion is.  It is scarcely possible to talk about such things without language that assumes the illusion.

[Sriram]

The Self is also an illusion though, in all likelihood

An illusion for whom?!

That's an illustration of how deeply ingrained, how compelling, the illusion is.  It is scarcely possible to talk about such things without language that assumes the illusion.

So...once again. An illusion for whom?