Just to keep things up to date

[ProfessorDavey]

The MYTH of the SECULAR part one

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/the-myth-of-the-secular-part-1-1.3135538

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/the-myth-of-the-secular-part-1-1.3135621?autoplay=true

I thought we were discussing decline in numbers of religious people, not secularism. You do understand the difference don't you. Atheism and secularism aren't the same thing.

It is perfectly possible to have a secular country in which 100% of the people are religious - there is no contradiction there whatsoever. Indeed if you gaze across your southern border you will see a country with a much greater number of religious people than the UK, yet the USA is secular, while the UK isn't.

[OH MY WORLD!]

Davey,
You didn't listen to the link. Next time try and tell me something i don't know. I think if you had bothered to listen to the link you would have discovered that yes indeed, a secularist can be religious or not. Therefore you wouldn't have wasted space and time with the, he doesn't know what secularism is, myth.

[Hope]

For goodness sake Hope, do you really think I'm so stupid that I think the CofE is or ever has been the only English denomination? But it's not just a 'dominant denomination only' - our head of state is also the Supreme Head of the CofE and we still have the Lords Spiritual. No other domination has the same clout. It is the established church and is currently our official state religion.

Except that the CofE isn't a religion, Rhi - however much people might like it to be.  Christianity is our official state religion (otherwise we would be saying that Britain was an Anglican nation, rather than a Christian one).  It is precisely this error that I was pointing out in ippy's originally posted link, and pointing out that if they want to compare non-religious with anything they need to compare it with religious since there are many religious people in the UK who don't subscribe to, let alone belong to/attend CofE congregations.

[Hope]

But levels of activity, often measured as actually participation in religious services is declining at the same (or faster) proportional rate as loss of cultural christians. That's assuming by cultural christians you mean people who say they are christian on a census or in a survey, but aren't active in that religion.

I believe that attendance on a regular basis (generally deemed to be once a month by church statisticians, but once a year but some other statisticians) is actually fairly steady at present.  Yes, there is a dramatic fall-off amongst those who state that they are Christian on a survey/census but don't attend church services.  I think this is a good thing, as it gives a more realistic figure to the numbers. 

[jeremyp]

Atheism and secularism are the same thing.

Typo?

[ProfessorDavey]

Atheism and secularism are the same thing.

Typo?

Whoops - aren't

[ProfessorDavey]

Davey,
You didn't listen to the link. Next time try and tell me something i don't know. I think if you had bothered to listen to the link you would have discovered that yes indeed, a secularist can be religious or not. Therefore you wouldn't have wasted space and time with the, he doesn't know what secularism is, myth.

So given that there is no contradiction between being religious and secularism why did you derail the discussion down a line which isn't relevant to the OP.

[ippy]

One thing's a certainty, if islam does become the majority religion, we'll all have to think very carefully if we continue to post on these types of forum.

ippy

Not really. By the time it becomes the majority religion, religion will be the minority. We only have to worry if the current trends change significantly and the possibility of Islam being a significant enough majority to achieve some sort of parliamentary power becomes a reality, and even then we'd have to see a dramatic shift in the character of Islam in the UK.

O.

I hadn't thought of it like that and let's hope you're right and it does seem to be going that way.

The only thing I can imagine is that in view of how relentlessly severe they are with the indoctrination their young children, will it decline enough and in time?

 ippy   

[ippy]

More like the Religion and Unethical, surely?   

After all, ippy loves to use these statistics that don't say what he wants them to.

ippy posted a link - I missed the bit where he expressed an opinion on what he wanted the link and its information to say - where did you see it?

Its in the thread title and is contextualized by all the other threads he's started on this topic.  Sorry if you've missed them over the months.

Couldn't quite word smith your way out of it again Hope.

ippy

[Shaker]

Its in the thread title

No it isn't.

[Hope]

Its in the thread title

No it isn't.

Except that you have only quoted part of the sentence - thus completely invalidating your own comment by quoting out of context.

[Hope]

Couldn't quite word smith your way out of it again Hope.

Oh sorry, is it too difficult for you to understand.  With the exception of one word, which is 5 syllabes long, all the others are words of one or two syllables.  Except possibly for that single word, most of the pre-intermediate EFL students I've ever worked with would have understood what I was saying.  They would have guessed at its meaning if necessary.

[ippy]

Couldn't quite word smith your way out of it again Hope.

Oh sorry, is it too difficult for you to understand.  With the exception of one word, which is 5 syllabes long, all the others are words of one or two syllables.  Except possibly for that single word, most of the pre-intermediate EFL students I've ever worked with would have understood what I was saying.  They would have guessed at its meaning if necessary.

Ten out of ten for trying Hope, black isn't white, you're welcome to go around on your own circle on your own, it'll be without my help.

ippy

[Hope]

Ten out of ten for trying Hope, black isn't white, you're welcome to go around on your own circle on your own, it'll be without my help.

ippy

Not sure why I'd need your help? After all, you seem to get lost and confused by some of the simplest concepts.

[ippy]

Ten out of ten for trying Hope, black isn't white, you're welcome to go around on your own circle on your own, it'll be without my help.

ippy

Not sure why I'd need your help? After all, you seem to get lost and confused by some of the simplest concepts.

I suppose living your life in a fantasy world without the slightest chance of finding any credible evidence that could support it must be a continual sourse of frustation and it would tend to make you see  any kind of challenge to your manufactured, imagination driven, world could only come from confused people.

ippy

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Ten out of ten for trying Hope, black isn't white, you're welcome to go around on your own circle on your own, it'll be without my help.

ippy

Not sure why I'd need your help? After all, you seem to get lost and confused by some of the simplest concepts.

I suppose living your life in a fantasy world without the slightest chance of finding any credible evidence that could support it must be a continual sourse of frustation and it would tend to make you see  any kind of challenge to your manufactured, imagination driven, world could only come from confused people.

ippy

Ippy....if you and the other antitheists deadbeats around here are the result of having the real world then I suggest you don't actually have a grasp of the real world.

There we go. A theist's response in the dismissive style of, er, Ippy.....and frankly it was so enjoyable,I can understand why he does it.

[BashfulAnthony]

Ten out of ten for trying Hope, black isn't white, you're welcome to go around on your own circle on your own, it'll be without my help.

ippy

Not sure why I'd need your help? After all, you seem to get lost and confused by some of the simplest concepts.

I suppose living your life in a fantasy world without the slightest chance of finding any credible evidence that could support it must be a continual sourse of frustation and it would tend to make you see  any kind of challenge to your manufactured, imagination driven, world could only come from confused people.

ippy

If theists were frustrated, then they could quite simply abandon their beliefs.  Sorry, ippy, it's you who is frustrated, that's why you're on here.  You are envious, frustrated, and that has caused your obsession with religion. 

[Shaker]

If theists were frustrated, then they could quite simply abandon their beliefs.

Except that we know it's not as easy as that, is it? For many there's nothing "simple" about it at all.

Sorry, ippy, it's you who is frustrated, that's why you're on here.  You are envious, frustrated, and that has caused your obsession with religion.

Those mind-reading lessons you must have taken - ask for your money back.

[BashfulAnthony]

If theists were frustrated, then they could quite simply abandon their beliefs.

Except that we know it's not as easy as that, is it? For many there's nothing "simple" about it at all.

Sorry, ippy, it's you who is frustrated, that's why you're on here.  You are envious, frustrated, and that has caused your obsession with religion.

Those mind-reading lessons you must have taken - ask for your money back.

Ah, another obsessive is stung into action.  Can't stop to read what you have to say, I'm looking at the NZ/ Australia rugby match (your favourite sport!    )  Mind you, whatever it is, I've heard it before  -  x hundred times!

[ippy]

If theists were frustrated, then they could quite simply abandon their beliefs.

Except that we know it's not as easy as that, is it? For many there's nothing "simple" about it at all.

Sorry, ippy, it's you who is frustrated, that's why you're on here.  You are envious, frustrated, and that has caused your obsession with religion.

Those mind-reading lessons you must have taken - ask for your money back.

Keeps im appy Shaker let him get on with it, mind you I've made another doll and bought some hat pins this time.

ippy

[BashfulAnthony]

If theists were frustrated, then they could quite simply abandon their beliefs.

Except that we know it's not as easy as that, is it? For many there's nothing "simple" about it at all.

Sorry, ippy, it's you who is frustrated, that's why you're on here.  You are envious, frustrated, and that has caused your obsession with religion.

Those mind-reading lessons you must have taken - ask for your money back.

Keeps im appy Shaker let him get on with it, mind you I've made another doll and bought some hat pins this time.

ippy

"Another" doll?  The mind boggles!   

[ippy]

If theists were frustrated, then they could quite simply abandon their beliefs.

Except that we know it's not as easy as that, is it? For many there's nothing "simple" about it at all.

Sorry, ippy, it's you who is frustrated, that's why you're on here.  You are envious, frustrated, and that has caused your obsession with religion.

Those mind-reading lessons you must have taken - ask for your money back.

Keeps im appy Shaker let him get on with it, mind you I've made another doll and bought some hat pins this time.

ippy

"Another" doll?  The mind boggles!   

You wait I haven't started sticking the pins into it yet.

ippy

[BashfulAnthony]

If theists were frustrated, then they could quite simply abandon their beliefs.

Except that we know it's not as easy as that, is it? For many there's nothing "simple" about it at all.

Sorry, ippy, it's you who is frustrated, that's why you're on here.  You are envious, frustrated, and that has caused your obsession with religion.

Those mind-reading lessons you must have taken - ask for your money back.

Keeps im appy Shaker let him get on with it, mind you I've made another doll and bought some hat pins this time.

ippy

"Another" doll?  The mind boggles!   

You wait I haven't started sticking the pins into it yet.

ippy

Oh dear, these people with these superstitious beliefs!  Have you any verifiable evidence that sticking pins in it will have any effect?

[Shaker]

Aha ... I reckon we might be onto something now, Bashers ... 

[BashfulAnthony]

Aha ... I reckon we might be onto something now, Bashers ... 

Really?  You mean you have some other kind of dolls?