Crowdfunding fine for shoplifting

[Rhiannon]

Because I'm not quite sure why a nat blogger wants to pretend to be a vicar from Bath. But hey, it's not a scene I know anything about so, whatever.

Otherwise I don't think it matters one jot who donated.

Well he lives in Bath so that is the Bath bit. The Rev is effectively an affectation he has used for some time

I won't ask why he lives in Bath. 

[Gonnagle]

Dear Diary,

Two points.

1. A human being in this country stole to feed herself.

2. From the link Sane gave us " there are no borders on solidarity " solidarity is not a left wing word, in Tory speak, " we are all in it together.

Gonnagle.

[Nearly Sane]

I won't ask why he lives in Bath. 

He went there to work with Amiga - twenty or so years ago

[Rhiannon]

I think the startling issue is that nobody at any point seems to have stepped in to say this process is a nonsense. Not the store manager, the police, the prosecutors, nor the magistrate who refused to accept the idea of hunger. I have no idea if this woman repeatedly offends or not but in case like this punishment is not the answer.

[Rhiannon]

I won't ask why he lives in Bath. 

He went there to work with Amiga - twenty or so years ago

Do they still exist?

[Nearly Sane]

Do they still exist?

Nope, but that was why he ended up there.

Some details below.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rev._Stuart_Campbell

[Nearly Sane]

I think the startling issue is that nobody at any point seems to have stepped in to say this process is a nonsense. Not the store manager, the police, the prosecutors, nor the magistrate who refused to accept the idea of hunger. I have no idea if this woman repeatedly offends or not but in case like this punishment is not the answer.

How much has that process cost?

[Nearly Sane]

Just to pick up on some earlier questions. She supposedly stole the mars bars because they were the cheapeat thing in the shop, and she had ben given vouchers for food bank but it was closed.

The problem I have is what is the point in fining someone with no money here.

[L.A.]

No.
It's about dignity.

I'm sorry Anchorman, but I don't buy that. She was claiming Jobseekers Allowance - the clue in in the title - it's to help people who are seeking jobs. She failed to attend an interview and received the penalty, she lost her benefit for a period as is quite clearly explained on the  government website:

http://www.thesite.org/money/benefits/jsa-sanctions-9197.html

It also explains quite clearly:

If you have a good reason you should be able to avoid a sanction. For example, if you tried to get the bus to the Jobcentre and it didn’t show, then you shouldn’t be sanctioned for being late to an appointment. (You should tell the Jobcentre as soon as possible if this happens.) It’s worth having your Jobcentre’s number stored on your phone for this very reason.

Apparently she couldn't  be bothered to tell anyone that there had been a problem with her bus.

She then managed to obtain food vouchers but clearly couldn't be bothered to check when the food-bank was open.

So then she thought it was fine to go out and steal some food.


Far from being a victim of benefit sanctions , she is simply the victim of her own stupidity.

[Rhiannon]

Do we know if the sanction was fairly applied? No. Do we know if this woman has learning difficulties, mental health issues or other problems? No. Do we know how often the food bank opens? No. Do we know if it was supposed to be open but the volunteer couldn't make it to open it that day? No. Do we know if her bus was late getting to the food bank? No.

Do we know that this would have cost a lot in terms of time and money on the part of the police, prosecution services and courts? Yes. Has anything been achieved by fining this women? No. Does it make it harder for her to get a job now? Probably.

[L.A.]

Do we know if this woman has learning difficulties, mental health issues or other problems?

I think we do know, her solicitor would have presumably offered that as mitigation.

[L.A.]

Do we know that this would have cost a lot in terms of time and money on the part of the police, prosecution services and courts? Yes. Has anything been achieved by fining this women? No. Does it make it harder for her to get a job now? Probably.

Which does strongly suggest that she had 'previous' - I think it would be unusual to be so tough on a first offender.

[Rhiannon]

Do we know if this woman has learning difficulties, mental health issues or other problems?

I think we do know, her solicitor would have presumably offered that as mitigation.

Depends how good her solicitor is. Given this is almost certainly legal aid, she might not have asked. Or the woman may have undiagnosed depression or other problems.

[Rhiannon]

Do we know that this would have cost a lot in terms of time and money on the part of the police, prosecution services and courts? Yes. Has anything been achieved by fining this women? No. Does it make it harder for her to get a job now? Probably.

Which does strongly suggest that she had 'previous' - I think it would be unusual to be so tough on a first offender.

Possibly. I'm not so sure. But even if you are right, that still means that they've fined someone with no money at a cost to the taxpayer of many times that of the amount she stole. How does that make any sense?

[L.A.]

My understanding is that a first time offender would normally be let off with a police caution.

[Rhiannon]

And you might be right. But this case has achieved what, exactly?

[L.A.]

And you might be right. But this case has achieved what, exactly?

You might say that for a lot of cases, so what do you do, just ignore crime?

Maybe worth starting a Crime and Punishment thread.

[Harrowby Hall]

From the Kidderminster Shuttle:

Louisa Sewell was the latest victim of benefit sanctions to appear before magistrates when she stole a four pack of Mars bars, worth just 75p, from Heron Foods in the Swan Centre, Kidderminster, on June 22.

But Chairman of the magistrates Maurice Lashford took no pity on the poverty-stricken woman, who's defence solicitor said she took the cheapest item she could see in the store to eat herself because she was so hungry, saying the bench did "not readily accept you go into a shop to steal just for being hungry."

And now some background from The Independent:

Frances Crook, the chief executive of the Howard League,  told the Independent  that the new compulsory court fines and charges, which were brought in by former Justice Secretary Chris Grayling shortly before the May general election, were “clearly so inequitable”.

“There is no leeway. Its a fixed charge and the courts cannot vary it because of circumstance, they have to impose it”, she explained.

Looks as though first offence leniency has been abolished. Another politician off my Xmas card list! A Justice Secretary who brings the law into disrepute.

[Anchorman]

Not a bad total....


http://metro.co.uk/2015/08/17/campaign-raises-13000-for-woman-who-was-fined-328-afte-stealing-mars-bars-5347776/

(though the accuracy leaves a lot to be desired)

[Anchorman]

Here's Wings comment on the latest total - and a telling comment on the coverage in rUK, but nothing in the increasingly irrrelevent Scottish press.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-geography-of-news/

[Nearly Sane]

This isn't a first offence for IDS either. Why put up with this, if you don't like cheats?

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/aug/18/dwp-admits-making-up-positive-quotes-from-benefits-claimants-for-leaflet

[Anchorman]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/woman-fined-nearly-300-for-stealing-three-bottles-of-baby-milk-10460653.html

Justice?

[L.A.]

There is of course one sure way to ensure that you don't have to worry about losing Job seekers allowance - Get a bloody job - but I suppose that is a bit extreme for some people.

[Shaker]

The milk of human kindness appears to have turned to cheese in your case, LA - I'm thinking specifically of that one in Sardinia (IIRC) which is full of maggots and weevils.

Still, as the forum's very own representative of the swivel-eyed and spittle-flecked Right, who would be surprised by this?

[Nearly Sane]

There is of course one sure way to ensure that you don't have to worry about losing Job seekers allowance - Get a bloody job - but I suppose that is a bit extreme for some people.

Ah the unfortunate can be attacked ad hom because it is all their fault...Mmm. I will give you a clue c o m p a s s I o n