Speaking in 'tongues'

[jeremyp]

Why do you think Mark grouped 3 miracles together where the recipients are all gentiles?

Because he loves groups of three. He has them all over the place in his gospel, and this is more evidence that his work is a literary construct and not a description of real events.

Its his way of making a point.

I agree. He's making a point, not recording historical events.

[Alien]

Why do you think Mark grouped 3 miracles together where the recipients are all gentiles?

Because he loves groups of three. He has them all over the place in his gospel, and this is more evidence that his work is a literary construct and not a description of real events.

Its his way of making a point.

I agree. He's making a point, not recording historical events.

Why do you think making a point and telling the truth are mutually exclusive? After all, you are making a point so should we assume that what you are saying is not true?

[jeremyp]

Why do you think making a point and telling the truth are mutually exclusive? After all, you are making a point so should we assume that what you are saying is not true?

Why don't you read my post and then tell me why your premise misrepresents it?

[Alien]

Why do you think making a point and telling the truth are mutually exclusive? After all, you are making a point so should we assume that what you are saying is not true?

Why don't you read my post and then tell me why your premise misrepresents it?

I don't see that it does. You seem to be saying that making a point and historical truth are mutually exclusive. If I've misunderstood you and misrepresented you, then I apologise. Please show me where I have got it wrong. Make it nice and simple for me.

[Spud]

Jeremy, mark selectsthree miracles performed in gentile territory in order to make his point, that there will soon be no distinction between jew and gentile. In the previous passage jesus has just declared all food clean, thus ending
the ritual purity laws.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Alien,

I don't see that it does. You seem to be saying that making a point and historical truth are mutually exclusive.

No he wasn't. He was merely saying that author was making a point rather than recounting factual truths, but there was no suggestion that making a point necessarily excludes the possibility of recording factual truths. I can as equally make a point by reference to myth, analogy, parable etc as I can by reference to facts. Thinking them to be mutually exclusive is just a construction you placed on Jeremy's words.

[ippy]

Jeremy, mark selectsthree miracles performed in gentile territory in order to make his point, that there will soon be no distinction between jew and gentile. In the previous passage jesus has just declared all food clean, thus ending
the ritual purity laws.

Spud, your post gives the impression that you're referring to actual events that really did happen?

ippy

[Hope]

Spud, your post gives the impression that you're referring to actual events that really did happen?

ippy

Whilst your's suggests that you have evidence to show that they didn't, ippy.  Perhaps you will be come the first person in history to provide such evidence.

[Hope]

Because he loves groups of three. He has them all over the place in his gospel, and this is more evidence that his work is a literary construct and not a description of real events.

Do you have any literary evidence to show that work that includes groups of three is necessarily a literary construct, jermey?  Do you have evidence to show that he wasn't describing  real events.  Do you have any evidence that, as you say in a later post, that Mark invented 3 women?

[Alien]

Alien,

I don't see that it does. You seem to be saying that making a point and historical truth are mutually exclusive.

No he wasn't. He was merely saying that author was making a point rather than recounting factual truths, but there was no suggestion that making a point necessarily excludes the possibility of recording factual truths. I can as equally make a point by reference to myth, analogy, parable etc as I can by reference to facts. Thinking them to be mutually exclusive is just a construction you placed on Jeremy's words.

OK, maybe I was being a bit thick or he was being sloppy when he wrote, "Because he loves groups of three. He has them all over the place in his gospel, and this is more evidence that his work is a literary construct and not a description of real events." It still looks to me like he is contrasting literary constructs with descriptions of real events, but hey ho, life goes on.

[BeRational]

Because he loves groups of three. He has them all over the place in his gospel, and this is more evidence that his work is a literary construct and not a description of real events.

Do you have any literary evidence to show that work that includes groups of three is necessarily a literary construct, jermey?  Do you have evidence to show that he wasn't describing  real events.  Do you have any evidence that, as you say in a later post, that Mark invented 3 women?

You have it backwards as usual.

The person making the claim has the burden of proof. I do not have to provide evidence to the contrary.
They have to substantiate their claim.

Something of course no Christian (or follower of any other deity) has ever done.

[Shaker]

Spud, your post gives the impression that you're referring to actual events that really did happen?

ippy

Whilst your's suggests that you have evidence to show that they didn't, ippy.  Perhaps you will be come the first person in history to provide such evidence.

I knew it wouldn't be long!

[bluehillside Retd.]

Whilst your's suggests that you have evidence to show that they didn't, ippy.  Perhaps you will be come the first person in history to provide such evidence.

Anyone up for a game of Hoppity logical fallacy top trumps?

[Hope]

The person making the claim has the burden of proof.

Precisely, which is why I asked jeremy to provide the evidence for his assertion/claim.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Alien,

OK, maybe I was being a bit thick or he was being sloppy when he wrote, "Because he loves groups of three. He has them all over the place in his gospel, and this is more evidence that his work is a literary construct and not a description of real events." It still looks to me like he is contrasting literary constructs with descriptions of real events, but hey ho, life goes on.

No, he was merely suggesting that it provided evidence in favour of one explanation rather than another. Your assumption that he was also claiming mutual exclusivity was overreaching.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Hoppity,

Precisely, which is why I asked jeremy to provide the evidence for his assertion/claim.

What "assertion/claim"?

[BeRational]

The person making the claim has the burden of proof.

Precisely, which is why I asked jeremy to provide the evidence for his assertion/claim.

No.

By default nothing that is claimed in the Bible ACTUALLY happened.

It's all an unsubstantiated claim.

By default you should believe NONE of it.

Only when a claim made in the Bible can be backed up should you believe.

No one has to show that the claims are false, they are AUTOMATICALLY false, until shown to be true.

[Shaker]

Whilst your's suggests that you have evidence to show that they didn't, ippy.  Perhaps you will be come the first person in history to provide such evidence.

Anyone up for a game of Hoppity logical fallacy top trumps?

I'm in, but I think I should make you aware that I have a head start of several months of collecting them.

[Shaker]

The person making the claim has the burden of proof.

Precisely, which is why I asked jeremy to provide the evidence for his assertion/claim.

No.

By default nothing that is claimed in the Bible ACTUALLY happened.

It's all an unsubstantiated claim.

By default you should believe NONE of it.

Only when a claim made in the Bible can be backed up should you believe.

No one has to show that the claims are false, they are AUTOMATICALLY false, until shown to be true.

Do you realise that while this is the logical and rational way to proceed, it's the exact opposite of the way that Hoppity "works"?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Shakes,

I'm in, but I think I should make you aware that I have a head start of several months of collecting them.

Cool. Even so you'll need to keep your wits about you - they come thick and fast once he gets his motor running. Eyes down!

[Hope]

No.

By default nothing that is claimed in the Bible ACTUALLY happened.

And your evidence for that claim, BR, is what?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Shakes,

And your evidence for that claim, BR, is what?

Top trumps!

Told you you you'd need to keep your wits about you.

OK, round 2....

[Outrider]

No.

By default nothing that is claimed in the Bible ACTUALLY happened.

And your evidence for that claim, BR, is what?

No evidence is required, it's default skepticism. Until sufficient evidence for a claim is provided, it's not accepted by default.

O.

[Dicky Underpants]

Jeremy, mark selectsthree miracles performed in gentile territory in order to make his point, that there will soon be no distinction between jew and gentile. In the previous passage jesus has just declared all food clean, thus ending
the ritual purity laws.

Which amazingly had been totally forgotten by Peter ("The Rock on which I will build my Church") a short while later, and had to be reminded of this teaching by his famous visionary dream, recorded in Acts.

[Spud]

Dicky. That is because it takes time for something like that to sink in. The ritual purity laws were meant to symbolize the need  for purity of heart. At least, that is what mark 7:14-23 seems to teach.