Speaking in 'tongues'

[Anchorman]

For someone who does not accept His existance, floo, you seem concerned about His feelings.....

[Hope]

One view, which I think I agree with, is that modern glossolalia is not the same as what the New Testament describes, but is something akin to whistling or humming, and it can be done to God's glory but is not a so-called 'gift of the Spirit'.

Can't say I've ever heard such a form of glossolalia, but I suppose it may happen. 

[Hope]

... and the Bible god a laughing stock!

Like your usual characterisation of him, you mean?   

[Anchorman]

Hi SotS, I had a look at a few online commentaries, and admittedly I was looking for one that went with the view that the word 'tongue' in the NT does not refer to something that is not a known language. Barnes takes such a view, from what I can see. He says, I think he means that an angel might say something eloquent, like, "Greetings, Sword Of the Spirit..." but he would address you in your own language. I don't think we can deduce from what Paul is saying in 1 Cor. 13:1 that glossolalia is the language of angels. Paul also says in 1 Cor 14:2, "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries" Barnes says about this verse, One view, which I think I agree with, is that modern glossolalia is not the same as what the New Testament describes, but is something akin to whistling or humming, and it can be done to God's glory but is not a so-called 'gift of the Spirit'.

Don't confine your research to Corinthians or Acts, Spud,  as there are other NT references in passing - not all Pauline. But remember, Paul wished all could use tongues - but he specifically made no big deal about it - indeed, he burst the bubble of those who thought they wwere something special because they used it. As I posted, it's an adjunct to prayer and personal devotion, and need not be obtrusive or offend other worshippers. Though I've been to a few Pentecostal assemblies, that's not my scene, though I would not deride any who find it useful. We get hung up on the charisma and Pentecostalism sometimes, but the gifts were not intended for one denomination only - or used in only one way. When we think in that way, we limit the Holy Spirit - and we do that at our peril!

[Spud]

Can't say I've ever heard such a form of glossolalia, but I suppose it may happen.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I meant that the gobbldegook- type noises are a bit like whistling or humming, in the sense that one can hum or whistle to the glory of God; but they aren't speaking in tongues. That is, specifically, speaking in a language that can be understood by people of a certain tribe or nation. I think it may be correct to say that this miraculous gift occurred at the time when the apostles began to take the gospel to the Gentiles, but then ceased to occur.

[ippy]

Evidence to support your claim that people are 'taken in by it', please ippy
Using your understanding of life, science is no less ludicrous, ippy.  After all, like religion, it is trying to make sense of something that I believe you've suggested has no sense or meaning.  (If I've muddled you with one or more other posters, I apologise).
You would probably need to compare it with something in a comparable ballpark - such as the special language and tones that lovers will sometimes use to each other.   I assume that you have results of research into this kind of thing to compare with.

"If it was one person or a few tens of people believing these religious ideas whoever they were would probably be kept in a safe place for their own good; but this doesn't happen due to the large numbers taken in by it".

"As if religious belief wasn't as ludicrous enough as it is, then someone leans on the the derision lever a and pushes it on a little further to include speaking in tongues"?

Find anything involving science to be ludicrous; it's soon rejected.

It would be difficult to find anything much more ludicrous than speaking in tongues.

How about fart reading there must be a message within every fart, it just needs a very sensitive reader that has lost their sense of smell, mind you thinking about it the smell could be a key part of the reading; I'm sure there are many things like fart reading that can be made up, I'm sure good old Blue could come up with some very original ideas in this field, something equally as sensible as speaking in tongues Hope.   

Fart reading, I like the idea of that, it certainly makes you smile.

ippy

[Nearly Sane]

"If it was one person or a few tens of people believing these religious ideas whoever they were would probably be kept in a safe place for their own good; but this doesn't happen due to the large numbers taken in by it".

"As if religious belief wasn't as ludicrous enough as it is, then someone leans on the the derision lever a and pushes it on a little further to include speaking in tongues"?

Find anything involving science to be ludicrous; it's soon rejected.

It would be difficult to find anything much more ludicrous than speaking in tongues.

How about fart reading there must be a message within every fart, it just needs a very sensitive reader that has lost their sense of smell, mind you thinking about it the smell could be a key part of the reading; I'm sure there are many things like fart reading that can be made up, I'm sure good old Blue could come up with some very original ideas in this field, something equally as sensible as speaking in tongues Hope.   

Fart reading, I like the idea of that, it certainly makes you smile.

ippy

One of the great fart speakers


https://m.youtube.com/?hl=en-GB&gl=GB#/watch?v=8gym81fY460

[SwordOfTheSpirit]

Hi SotS,

...

One view, which I think I agree with, is that modern glossolalia is not the same as what the New Testament describes, but is something akin to whistling or humming, and it can be done to God's glory but is not a so-called 'gift of the Spirit'.

Thanks for this Spud. I'll have a detailed look.

[Hope]

"If it was one person or a few tens of people believing these religious ideas whoever they were would probably be kept in a safe place for their own good; but this doesn't happen due to the large numbers taken in by it".

"As if religious belief wasn't as ludicrous enough as it is, then someone leans on the the derision lever a and pushes it on a little further to include speaking in tongues"?

Find anything involving science to be ludicrous; it's soon rejected.

It would be difficult to find anything much more ludicrous than speaking in tongues.

How about fart reading there must be a message within every fart, it just needs a very sensitive reader that has lost their sense of smell, mind you thinking about it the smell could be a key part of the reading; I'm sure there are many things like fart reading that can be made up, I'm sure good old Blue could come up with some very original ideas in this field, something equally as sensible as speaking in tongues Hope.   

Fart reading, I like the idea of that, it certainly makes you smile.

ippy

That's a novel idea, ippy.  Counter my questions by posting the very comments that had prompted my questions.  Saves one thinking, I suppose.

[ippy]

That's a novel idea, ippy.  Counter my questions by posting the very comments that had prompted my questions.  Saves one thinking, I suppose.

I like to think I've matched the content of your post Hope.

ippy

[Hope]

I like to think I've matched the content of your post Hope.

ippy

Perhaps you'll now answer the questions I raised, rather than simply parrotting the post that initiated them.

[ippy]

Perhaps you'll now answer the questions I raised, rather than simply parrotting the post that initiated them.

You show me the evidence for first Hope.

Yo can't help yourself Hope, this time you're nibbling around the edges of you N P F; can't let go can you?

ippy

[Hope]

You show me the evidence for first Hope.

Yo can't help yourself Hope, this time you're nibbling around the edges of you N P F; can't let go can you?

ippy

Sorry, Ippy, but NPF requires me to ask you for evidence that what I claim is invalid.  I have asked you to provide evidence for what you have claimed.  Here is the chance for you to do so.

[ippy]

Sorry, Ippy, but NPF requires me to ask you for evidence that what I claim is invalid.  I have asked you to provide evidence for what you have claimed.  Here is the chance for you to do so.

Oh dear, Hope, you really can't se it.

ippy

[T8-eh-T8]

It has been well documented that there is no celestial language which is common to those who speak in tongues. Chinese people speak in a language structured around Chinese language sounds. Russian likewise, English, African, all make sounds based upon their own language.

But noises arising from an ekstasis experience, literally a coming out of oneself, are common across a number of religions including the most primitive. Often accompanied by stimulative substances. Certainly we assume such practices were used in the early church. Look at the Revelations of St John, the site of a Greek pagan oracle which was famed for hallucinogenic flora leading to prophecy, Patmos.

I think we can  understand that those who speak in tongues today do so to ape earlier ekstatik practices. Maybe a bit silly, but not as damaging as some other practices favoured by the devout.

[Sassy]

It has been well documented that there is no celestial language which is common to those who speak in tongues.

Where did you get the above from? Like Southport...Long time...no sea  see.

[Brownie]

T8:   Look at the Revelations of St John, the site of a Greek pagan oracle which was famed for hallucinogenic flora leading to prophecy, Patmos. [/i

Famed or farmed?  Maybe both.  Is it exported to this country and can we buy it in garden centres?

Chinese people speak in a language structured around Chinese language sounds. Russian likewise, English, African, all make sounds based upon their own language.

Explains the South London inflection which was evident at the charismatic meetings I attended.  It's all in the vowels.

[ippy]

T8:   Look at the Revelations of St John, the site of a Greek pagan oracle which was famed for hallucinogenic flora leading to prophecy, Patmos. [/i

Famed or farmed?  Maybe both.  Is it exported to this country and can we buy it in garden centres?

Chinese people speak in a language structured around Chinese language sounds. Russian likewise, English, African, all make sounds based upon their own language.

Explains the South London inflection which was evident at the charismatic meetings I attended.  It's all in the vowels.

How about where music is very good at conveying emotions and general human feelings?

I could be that the tonality of the gibberish expressed when speaking in tongues could convey a similar effect to the way music does; having said that people that think that are hearing language, whatever language, when they listen to those speaking in tongues has to be for those with an overactive sense of imagination; mind you religious believers would need a fair old amount of imagination to believe the things they do in the first place.

Maybe for those that already have a religious belief it might not be quite such a stretch of their imaginations.

ippy   

[Brownie]

(Oops, I didn't intend my last sentence of that post to be in italics.  That was me talking, not a quote.)

Yes ippy, you could well be right.   I do find singing/music stirs my emotions, always have.  I lose myself in music and it is the same with others.

The singing in tongues at the place I attended years ago was amazing, almost 'transporting'.  So very harmonious and what was quite noticeable was that it happened spontaneously and everyone stopped singing at the same time.

[ippy]

(Oops, I didn't intend my last sentence of that post to be in italics.  That was me talking, not a quote.)

Yes ippy, you could well be right.   I do find singing/music stirs my emotions, always have.  I lose myself in music and it is the same with others.

The singing in tongues at the place I attended years ago was amazing, almost 'transporting'.  So very harmonious and what was quite noticeable was that it happened spontaneously and everyone stopped singing at the same time.

Was there extra space allowed for the ambulances to park and tea with biscuits laid on, for the speakers in tongues carers?

ippy

[Brownie]

Well, there was a childrens' hospital (now closed replaced by block of flats) complete with Casualty within spitting distance.

[Walter]

I thought I would bump this thread up to see if anyone has anything to add to it.

Yes I've witnessed it
it has the same appeal as the bloke on Britain's Got Talent who could fart tunes from his arse and makes as much sense ,

[SteveH]

Yes I've witnessed it
it has the same appeal as the bloke on Britain's Got Talent who could fart tunes from his arse and makes as much sense ,

I've done it, to my undying shame, and I agree with your estimation.

[Walter]

I've done it, to my undying shame, and I agree with your estimation.

hope you didn't leave any skid marks 

[Sebastian Toe]

Yes I've witnessed it
it has the same appeal as the bloke on Britain's Got Talent who could fart tunes from his arse and makes as much sense ,

I saw him. His act was shit....... I think he followed through!