The end of entrepreneurialism

[Walt Zingmatilder]

If the majority of workers become self employed and that will for the majority mean continued business failure, low income and far harder work, failed relationships, less leisure or quality time that that will kill off the belief in the entrepreneurial narrative of  the George Osbornes.

[Hope]

And your point is ... , Vlad?

[Jack Knave]

Osborne is blowing out of his arse. This is what the elite want, for the return of feudalism. He is just saying all the things that were once believed to give the impression tat is where he is coming from but in fact it is a smoke screen for the elite.

Neo-Liberalism is the politicization of economics to funnel wealth and power to an elite few.

[Hope]

Neo-Liberalism is the politicization of economics to funnel wealth and power to an elite few.

Is that why Labour has been concentrating on backing Neo-Liberalism?

[Hope]

And your point is ... , Vlad?

Bumped, for Vlad.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Hope

My point is that the type of entrepreneurialship which is Good will be replaced by an ersatz entrepreneurship.

Where
1: People have to become self employed
2: They do this to remain in work and often in the same place
3: They are made to not only work for less but to cover there own overheads previously shouldered by the employer.
4: They receive none of the benefits for working for an employer even though they are often doing the same job for the same employer.
5: There is little possibility of expanding the business since they are both working full time and running their own ownership.
6: This is an advantage to the bigger corporations.
7. We know that in many big company/small company relationships the bigger company demands extra charges for the smaller company to trade with them.
8. This will drive down labour costs and lead to employers asking for eternal cuts to wages by asking for a cheaper rate or money back arrangements.
9. Effective productivity will fall.
10. economy wrecked because entrepreneurism will end up resulting in a smaller return.

That's my point.

[wigginhall]

Neo-Liberalism is the politicization of economics to funnel wealth and power to an elite few.

Is that why Labour has been concentrating on backing Neo-Liberalism?

Well, that's an interesting question.   In fact, we can broaden it - why have all political parties adopted neo-lib policies?   But it's a sharp question in Labour now, as the leadership election is going on, with Corbyn arguing against austerity, in particular.

There are a number of replies to that question.   One, there is no alternative, in other words, a mixed economy, or Keynesian economics, is no longer viable.   Well, quite a few economists dispute this.

Two, politics has moved to the right in many countries since the 70s, and Labour has followed suit, believing that anything else was electoral suicide.   Again, debatable, for example, the SNP have followed a more radical line, although arguably, they are still a neo-lib party.

This is part of a broader historical view - that after the war there was a kind of consensus, so that the welfare state was supported, a mixed economy accepted, and so on.   However, various shocks in the 70s, e.g. the oil price rise, meant that companies had to drive harder for profits, and hence, renounced the idea of a mixed economy.  Hence the turn to privatization, anti-union politics, attacks on welfare, and so  on.

It's certainly going to be interesting to see how things pan out in the next decade or so.   Some are predicting more economic collapses, or stagnation lasting for decades.   I guess that nobody really knows; I think austerity is a dangerous tool, as it cuts the tax intake, and can choke the economy.   

[Outrider]

Well, that's an interesting question.   In fact, we can broaden it - why have all political parties adopted neo-lib policies?   But it's a sharp question in Labour now, as the leadership election is going on, with Corbyn arguing against austerity, in particular.

The parties have gone neo-lib because the (predominantly right-wing) media in the western world is pitching to them the myth that government policies have a large effect on the broader economy. They don't, all government policies do is influence how the products or debts of the economy within that country get distributed - that sounds like the same thing, but it isn't.

If the global economy is seeing value flowing to the Far East, there is very little the government of the UK can do to stop that - all it can do is change who in the UK shoulders the worst of the burden of it.

People believe that voting for neo-lib parties will elect a government that will/keep their country rich. This is just one more reason why a democracy only works if the electorate have sufficient knowledge, which is why organisations like the BBC are so important; if we hand the media, and therefore the framework of the social understanding, over to the owners of the free market, we hand over control of our knowledge to people who will use it for their benefit, not ours.

O.

[Jack Knave]

Neo-Liberalism is the politicization of economics to funnel wealth and power to an elite few.

Is that why Labour has been concentrating on backing Neo-Liberalism?

Why did they get in bed with the bankers? Because they are stupid!!!

In fact they are so stupid they can't even run a leadership election without it going tits up!!!!!!!!!!!!   

[Jack Knave]

Well, that's an interesting question.   In fact, we can broaden it - why have all political parties adopted neo-lib policies?   But it's a sharp question in Labour now, as the leadership election is going on, with Corbyn arguing against austerity, in particular.

The parties have gone neo-lib because the (predominantly right-wing) media in the western world is pitching to them the myth that government policies have a large effect on the broader economy. They don't, all government policies do is influence how the products or debts of the economy within that country get distributed - that sounds like the same thing, but it isn't.

If the global economy is seeing value flowing to the Far East, there is very little the government of the UK can do to stop that - all it can do is change who in the UK shoulders the worst of the burden of it.

People believe that voting for neo-lib parties will elect a government that will/keep their country rich. This is just one more reason why a democracy only works if the electorate have sufficient knowledge, which is why organisations like the BBC are so important; if we hand the media, and therefore the framework of the social understanding, over to the owners of the free market, we hand over control of our knowledge to people who will use it for their benefit, not ours.

O.

Almost right. It is not the media it is the bankers and financial institutions who have sold this myth that they can create wealth without any boom and bust. Where do you think Brown got that stupid phrase from? Economics has been politicized for the enrichment of the bankers who are running the show now - this is why none have gone to jail where N-L is still in vogue. 

[Hope]

The parties have gone neo-lib because the (predominantly right-wing) media in the western world is pitching to them the myth that government policies have a large effect on the broader economy.

Is the media in the western world 'predominantly right-wing'?

[Jack Knave]

The parties have gone neo-lib because the (predominantly right-wing) media in the western world is pitching to them the myth that government policies have a large effect on the broader economy.

Is the media in the western world 'predominantly right-wing'?

The right wing or elites are the ones with the money and so own the media as well, for the most part.

[wigginhall]

This is true in the UK, isn't it?  The only paper which supports Labour is the Mirror, I think.   Interesting that some of the fiercest hostility to Corbyn has come from the Guardian and the Independent, which are supposed to be liberal in some way.   The Guardian has been printing article after article smearing Corbyn, and the readers have been responding with anger.

[Shaker]

It really has been one of the most remarkable missteps by the Graun that I can remember since ... well, I was going to say since I can remember, but the last one was David Shariatmadari's hatchet job on Maajid Nawaz and that was only a couple of weeks ago.

Nevertheless, for a traditionally left-leaning paper to dump on Corbyn is something that's already biting them on the backside and will continue to do so. Thankfully.

[wigginhall]

I think they have pulled their horns in a bit, partly because every smear was producing thousands of replies, many of them objecting strenuously to the hatchet job on Corbyn.    Well, the Independent actually supported the Tories during the election, so maybe liberals are moving to the right.

[Hope]

The parties have gone neo-lib because the (predominantly right-wing) media in the western world is pitching to them the myth that government policies have a large effect on the broader economy.

Is the media in the western world 'predominantly right-wing'?

The right wing or elites are the ones with the money and so own the media as well, for the most part.

The Guardian has never supported any party other than Labour.  The Independent and the 'i' have always been left of centre, the Financial Times is economically liberal and politically centrist (so that's half the serious 'broadsheets'), The Mirror and the Sunday People are left-wing - so that's about a quarter of the red-tops.  Amusingly, the Sun supports the SNP in Scotland, I understand, but the Tories everywhere else.

The BBC politically neutral as is required by its charter.  Not sure about Sky; I think it depends on what mood Rupert Murdoch is in at any given time.

So, that's the UK.  European nations have a similar split.  Mind you, with no serious left of centre party in the States, the use of 'predominantly right of centre' is probably valid.

[Jack Knave]

The parties have gone neo-lib because the (predominantly right-wing) media in the western world is pitching to them the myth that government policies have a large effect on the broader economy.

Is the media in the western world 'predominantly right-wing'?

The right wing or elites are the ones with the money and so own the media as well, for the most part.

The Guardian has never supported any party other than Labour.  The Independent and the 'i' have always been left of centre, the Financial Times is economically liberal and politically centrist (so that's half the serious 'broadsheets'), The Mirror and the Sunday People are left-wing - so that's about a quarter of the red-tops.  Amusingly, the Sun supports the SNP in Scotland, I understand, but the Tories everywhere else.

The BBC politically neutral as is required by its charter.  Not sure about Sky; I think it depends on what mood Rupert Murdoch is in at any given time.

So, that's the UK.  European nations have a similar split.  Mind you, with no serious left of centre party in the States, the use of 'predominantly right of centre' is probably valid.

Ignore the political leanings of these papers this is just a smoke screen and a sham of what is actually going on. Most support in some way or other the elite, the bankers, the Neo-Liberal project. The EU is the crème de la crème of the Neo-Liberal project and how many of those support that in some manner? Most of them...

[wigginhall]

See the response to Corbyn as well - as already stated, the Guardian, well-known liberal organ, has been printing article after article fiercely critical of him, smearing him, and so on, provoking thousands of replies (often angry) in their online edition.

[Jack Knave]

See the response to Corbyn as well - as already stated, the Guardian, well-known liberal organ, has been printing article after article fiercely critical of him, smearing him, and so on, provoking thousands of replies (often angry) in their online edition.

I think Corbyn is also anti-EU, which many of the far left are. This would back up my idea about the papers being pro EU and therefore pro Neo-Liberalism. I know UKIP are holding their noses with anticipation of working with them in the referendum.

[Outrider]

This is true in the UK, isn't it?  The only paper which supports Labour is the Mirror, I think.   Interesting that some of the fiercest hostility to Corbyn has come from the Guardian and the Independent, which are supposed to be liberal in some way.   The Guardian has been printing article after article smearing Corbyn, and the readers have been responding with anger.

The Guardian were supporting Labour in the last election, but they appear to be occupying an economically centrist, liberal position and see Corbyn's left-wing economics as bad as the Tory's right-wing stance.

As to the media being predominantly right-wing - yes, they are. The American media, catering to Americans but being influential around the globe, are clustered around the American centre-ground which is signficantly right of centre. The UK/European media is, in the main, privately owned, and those rich individuals tend to push a right-wing angle.

It's not egregiously bad, in the main, and it's not that there aren't instances of left-wing or centrist opinion, but in the main the western media is right of centre.

O.