Author Topic: A war on gay persons still at school  (Read 27403 times)

Owlswing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6945
Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #50 on: August 24, 2015, 05:47:03 PM »
Outrider,
Yes, well Christian schools are not state schools here in Canada. But ALL schools here in Canada must use a government approved curriculum. That means they are monitored here in my province by the government's education dept. All Christian schools must have qualified teachers. Like I said, when I left the tax supported public school for a private Christian school, I suddenly didn't have to watch the daily antics of bullies. I have no doubts that bullying is severe in government run schools compared to the privately funded Christian schools.

I've 'served time' in both, my wife teaches and I know many teachers - children bully, it's a facet of their development. They identify apparent weakness and cluster together to target it as part of some sort of intrinsic bonding ritual.

The themes of the bullying might vary, but regardless of the type of school or the denomination of the parents, it's pretty much universal across the UK - whether it continues to other nations in the same way I couldn't comment.

I'm glad you had a singular better experience when you shifted schools.

O.

Outrider

You need to understand that, in JC's view, Canada is an absolute paradise for Christians and anyone who is not Christian or does anything whatsoever that Christians disagree with deserves everything they get. I, as a Pagan and a witch, which (no pun intended) JC never, ever, tires of reminding people, would have no place there.

If this is challenged then he will always point out that things are far worse on this side of the pond!
 
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

OH MY WORLD!

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7050
  • Just between you me and a monkey sitting on a rock
Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #51 on: August 24, 2015, 05:51:39 PM »
Don't be so silly and knee jerking dearest Matty. And you of all people best not speak for me, dear friend. We have all the ills that your little island has dearest Matty, and we have them witches, though not many here in the Bible belt of Canada, thank the Lord. Now cheer up and have a cookie.

Shaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15639
Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #52 on: August 24, 2015, 05:53:52 PM »
Anyone who believes homosexuality is wrong, even if they don't go as far as bullying gays, needs to change their attitude PDQ! Being prejudiced against someone for no better reason than they are attracted to people of the same sex is WRONG, and excusing their bigotry using the not so good book is very nasty indeed! >:(
I am entitled to believe that certain ways of behaving are wrong, Floo, in the same way that a certain William Wilberforce stuck to his guns regarding the wrongness (or sinfulness) of slavery for 20 years before the trade was banned here.
As far as I am aware, the current tally is that Hope has compared homosexuality to lying, breaking promises, slavery and murder.

What I can't understand is that lying, breaking promises, slavery and murder can be lumped together in the same category as they cause harm (in the very broadest sense) to human beings and their wellbeing and welfare, whereas homosexuality doesn't. Quite the opposite, in fact.

If I thought it was worth asking Hope to explain this view I would, but given his record of answering straightforward questions (i.e. as good as nonexistent) I know that I needn't bother.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

jeremyp

  • Admin Support
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32509
  • Blurb
    • Sincere Flattery: A blog about computing
Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #53 on: August 24, 2015, 06:28:48 PM »
Whilst I admit to having not done a huge amount of teaching in schools lately, the experience I have had of youth clubs, and especially bullying taking place at school that has been reported to me as a youth club leader, it would still seem to be predominantly racist and sexist.  Yes, I have had a few cases of sexuality-based bullying (including one case of a heterosexual girl being bullied by a group of lesbian classmates).  In fact, I would suggest that, parallelling UKIP's growth in popularity, so the cases of racist bullying has risen again.  The problem is sometimes that the same person can get bullied for more than one reason, thus making a core problem difficult to isolate.  This is, in part, why I believe that the practice of dividing the bullying into type can sometimes be counter-productive.  I would much rather concentrate on 'outing' the bullies and dealing with their issues without necessarily broadcasting what they are.

I don't understand this post Hope.  The article is not about bullying at schools, it's about schools (Christian schools) expelling gay children.  I suggest you read the linked article next time before putting your homophobic foot in it.
This post and all of JeremyP's posts words certified 100% divinely inspired* -- signed God.
*Platinum infallibility package, terms and conditions may apply

jeremyp

  • Admin Support
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32509
  • Blurb
    • Sincere Flattery: A blog about computing
Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #54 on: August 24, 2015, 06:32:25 PM »
it was when I opted to go to a CHRISTIAN high school, that I realized that school could be interesting with out all that nasty drama that bullies bring to the classroom.

Except this thread is about Christian schools effectively doing the bullying.
This post and all of JeremyP's posts words certified 100% divinely inspired* -- signed God.
*Platinum infallibility package, terms and conditions may apply

Jack Knave

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8690
Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #55 on: August 24, 2015, 06:55:23 PM »
Whilst I admit to having not done a huge amount of teaching in schools lately, the experience I have had of youth clubs, and especially bullying taking place at school that has been reported to me as a youth club leader, it would still seem to be predominantly racist and sexist.  Yes, I have had a few cases of sexuality-based bullying (including one case of a heterosexual girl being bullied by a group of lesbian classmates).  In fact, I would suggest that, parallelling UKIP's growth in popularity, so the cases of racist bullying has risen again.  The problem is sometimes that the same person can get bullied for more than one reason, thus making a core problem difficult to isolate.  This is, in part, why I believe that the practice of dividing the bullying into type can sometimes be counter-productive.  I would much rather concentrate on 'outing' the bullies and dealing with their issues without necessarily broadcasting what they are.
The correlation with UKIP is bollocks!!!

During the election a racist accusation was made at a UKIP meeting and I forget which ethnic group rose up from the UKIP ranks; they looked like Muslims, and they turned on the accuser and jeered at them. So take that slur back, Hope.

Aruntraveller

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11087
Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #56 on: August 24, 2015, 07:24:50 PM »
At no point did I state or imply that gay people could not be bullies. You really should learn to read for comprehension.
Yet, what you did was pick up on the fact that homosexuals can bully, despite my pointing out the fact that it happens every which way.  I picked it out because, as far as I am aware, it was a rarity - but that it does happen.

You missed the point completely. Never mind.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Anchorman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16038
  • Maranatha!
Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #57 on: August 24, 2015, 08:31:32 PM »
And Matty, I have a feeling that MOST bullying is to be found in government run schools not private Christian schools. We do know that it is severe in your government schools. Just google Matty!

In my experience of private schools most of the bullying is sanctioned and is age-based - older children put in positions of authority over younger children, which is then abused.

Here in the UK the majority of the Christian schools ARE state schools - the academy idea of letting schools run themselves free of central government authority has instead created a system whereby schools are interfered with by institutions that are not even education-oriented.

O.


-
Free Schools are not a policy of the Scots government, Outrider, where education is devolved. Private faith schools are not (unfortunately) illegal - but the Education (Scotland) Act passed by Holyrood in March this year gives very strict criteria for their operation; criteria which must fulfil the priorities set out in the Scottish Education carriculum, or the school will. quite rightly, loose its' charitable status and licence to teach.




"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

OH MY WORLD!

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7050
  • Just between you me and a monkey sitting on a rock
Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #58 on: August 25, 2015, 02:30:19 AM »
Jeremy,
I don't believe the school is doing that. It is enforcing it's rules and all students are well aware of these rules before they attend. That boy knew the position that school takes on homosexuality but he went anyways AND started having sex. If I had started having sex and my school had found out, I would have been booted out. I had a class mate booted out for that very reason.
If you have a problem with the position the school takes, don't attend. It's a hard lesson for that guy, but if he had been honest with his parents, I am sure they would not have wanted him there.

Hope

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25569
    • Tools With A Mission
Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #59 on: August 25, 2015, 04:54:01 AM »
You missed the point completely. Never mind.
Sorry to disappoint you, Trent, but I'm not going to be bullied into believing that bullying is acceptable provided the bully is someone whose outlook on life matches mine (or yours).
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64353
Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #60 on: August 25, 2015, 05:38:39 AM »
You missed the point completely. Never mind.
Sorry to disappoint you, Trent, but I'm not going to be bullied into believing that bullying is acceptable provided the bully is someone whose outlook on life matches mine (or yours).

Given trentvoyager has not said the above, has made it clear when you last put it that he was saying anything like that that he was not, why are you misrepresenting him in this tawdry knock off lie?

Hope

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25569
    • Tools With A Mission
Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #61 on: August 25, 2015, 06:04:51 AM »
What I can't understand is that lying, breaking promises, slavery and murder can be lumped together in the same category as they cause harm (in the very broadest sense) to human beings and their wellbeing and welfare, whereas homosexuality doesn't. Quite the opposite, in fact.
And you have evidence to back up this assertion, Shaker?

I would suggest that homosexuals are generally more likely to have multiple partners than heterosexuals, and studies suggest that having multiple sexual partners makes one prone to mental health issues.  There is an interesting M.Sc in Abnormal and Clinical Psychology project on Acadamia.edu in which thew author finds the following results and comes to the subsequent conclusions:

Quote
Results:
This study found that depression, both self-reported and previously diagnosed, was associated with a variety of risky sexual behaviours including poor contraception use and having a sexually transmitted disease. Risky sexual behaviour was not found to correlate with low self-esteem; however, those of high self-esteem were significantly less likely to have risky sex. Early sexual initiation was not associated with depression but led to an increased subjective estimate of likelihood of risky sexual behaviours in the future. Males were found to be significantly more likely to engage in risky sex both with poor partner choice and infrequent use of contraception. Those of a low economic status were particularly susceptible to risky sexual behaviour.
Conclusions:
Risky sexual behaviour can have many negative consequences both in adolescence, as previous research has shown and, as this study reports, in later life. Poor contraceptive use and a poor choice of sexual partner can all severely impact mental health reducing self-esteem and increasing depression. The exact relationship between risky sexual behaviour and mental health is unclear; however, it is hoped that future longitudinal studies can improve our knowledge on this area. Education needs to be improved to reduce thenumber of sexually transmitted diseases and other risks that adolescents in particular may encounter. This can be carried out in schools and through a variety of media outlets. If thisis achieved risks to both physical and mental health can be reduced.
https://www.academia.edu/209711/Sexual_Behaviour_and_its_Mental_Health_Consequences

OK, whilst this is by no means conclusive, but the fact that the coinclusions include the thought that "The exact relationship between risky sexual behaviour and mental health is unclear", indicates that there is some degree of correlation.

Another article available on the web is entitled "Is There a Price to Pay for Promiscuity?".  It goes on to say that yes, there is - both physically and emotionally. http://www.everydayhealth.com/longevity/can-promiscuity-threaten-longevity.aspx

Another - available at http://tinyurl.com/qbmyvuo - states that "And yet hookups pose a significant threat to the physical and psychological health of these young individuals.

In addition to the known risks of contracting STDs, developing unwanted pregnancies, and being raped or otherwise assaulted, people who engage in casual sex may suffer emotional consequences that persist long after the details of an encounter are a dim memory. On college campuses, where brief sexual liaisons are prevalent, unanticipated results can jeopardize a student’s career. In the workplace, the results can be just as disastrous, if not more so."

Quote
A number of studies have investigated sexual exclusivity in homosexual relationships, particularly among gay men (e.g., Bell & Weinberg, 1978; Blasband & Peplau, 1985; Blumstein & Schwartz, 1983; Harry, 1984; Harry & DeVall, 1978; Harry & Lovely, 1979; Kurdek &  Schmitt, 1986; Peplau & Cochran, 1982; Peplau et al., 1978; McWhirter & Mattison, 1984). In general, homosexuals—especially gay men—appear to have more permissive attitudes about sexual fidelity than do heterosexuals (Peplau & Cochran, 1980). Blumstein and Schwartz (1983, p. 272) reported that for men in couples, 75% of husbands and 62% of heterosexual cohabitors believe monogamy is important, compared to only 35% of gay men. For women, 84% of wives, 70% of heterosexual cohabitors, and 71% of lesbians believe monogamy is important. For all groups except gay men, a majority endorse the virtues of sexual fidelity; among gay men, sexual exclusivity is the minority view.
This quote comes from a paper entitled "A Relationship Perspective on Homosexuality" page 338 - http://tinyurl.com/pn86rpv . I accept that it is 20-odd years old, but it highlights a number of issues that are unlikely to have changed dramatically over that period, all of which point to a greater likelihood of harm to homosexuals than to heterosexuals.

Obviously, as with ANY human interaction, one will find exceptions that run counter to the typically observed pattern, but society can't and doesn't design itself around the exception, but around the normal pattern.

I have found more recent material, but as I wanted to post material that has rigorous peer review support, I have avoided using stuff from groups such as Stonewall and Outrage!; CARM and Anglican Mainstream.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Hope

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25569
    • Tools With A Mission
Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #62 on: August 25, 2015, 06:11:56 AM »
Given trentvoyager has not said the above, has made it clear when you last put it that he was saying anything like that that he was not, why are you misrepresenting him in this tawdry knock off lie?
NS, trent has - and not for the first time - accused me of exemplifying homosexuality in a negative fashion.  The example I gave was part of sentence that highlighted the fact that sexuality-related bullying occurs in both directions.  I can only assume from his response that he doesn't want to acknowledge this bilateral behaviour pattern, preferring that only straight-on-gay bullying is acknowledged.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Leonard James

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12443
Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #63 on: August 25, 2015, 06:15:46 AM »
Given trentvoyager has not said the above, has made it clear when you last put it that he was saying anything like that that he was not, why are you misrepresenting him in this tawdry knock off lie?
NS, trent has - and not for the first time - accused me of exemplifying homosexuality in a negative fashion.  The example I gave was part of sentence that highlighted the fact that sexuality-related bullying occurs in both directions.  I can only assume from his response that he doesn't want to acknowledge this bilateral behaviour pattern, preferring that only straight-on-gay bullying is acknowledged.

Oh come on, Hope! Are you really suggesting that gay children bully the straights? You live in cloud cuckoo land.

Hope

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25569
    • Tools With A Mission
Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #64 on: August 25, 2015, 06:29:25 AM »
Oh come on, Hope! Are you really suggesting that gay children bully the straights? You live in cloud cuckoo land.
Clearly you like to see society through rose-tinted spectacles.  I have seen just about every possible form of bullying that can take place in a school and I can confirm that gays can bully straights.  As I pointed out in the original post that I made, it doesn't happen as often as the other way round, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.  Remember that, unlike in our youth, when bullying was almost always face-to-face - be that physically or mentally/emotionally - it can now take place 'virtually' and from a distance, through social media and other channels.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64353
Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #65 on: August 25, 2015, 06:57:53 AM »
Given trentvoyager has not said the above, has made it clear when you last put it that he was saying anything like that that he was not, why are you misrepresenting him in this tawdry knock off lie?
NS, trent has - and not for the first time - accused me of exemplifying homosexuality in a negative fashion.  The example I gave was part of sentence that highlighted the fact that sexuality-related bullying occurs in both directions.  I can only assume from his response that he doesn't want to acknowledge this bilateral behaviour pattern, preferring that only straight-on-gay bullying is acknowledged.

No, he has not said anything of the kind. Why is it that you have lied about what he said continually?

Hope

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25569
    • Tools With A Mission
Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #66 on: August 25, 2015, 07:13:05 AM »
No, he has not said anything of the kind. Why is it that you have lied about what he said continually?
If you feel that way, you are entitled to do so.  I still believe that Trent is doing the proverbial ostrich-thing.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

jeremyp

  • Admin Support
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32509
  • Blurb
    • Sincere Flattery: A blog about computing
Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #67 on: August 25, 2015, 07:44:19 AM »
It is enforcing it's rules and all students are well aware of these rules before they attend.

Nobody is disputing that the rule exists.   We are just pointing out that the rule is wrong.

This post and all of JeremyP's posts words certified 100% divinely inspired* -- signed God.
*Platinum infallibility package, terms and conditions may apply

Leonard James

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12443
Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #68 on: August 25, 2015, 07:46:54 AM »
Clearly you like to see society through rose-tinted spectacles.  I have seen just about every possible form of bullying that can take place in a school and I can confirm that gays can bully straights.  As I pointed out in the original post that I made, it doesn't happen as often as the other way round, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.  Remember that, unlike in our youth, when bullying was almost always face-to-face - be that physically or mentally/emotionally - it can now take place 'virtually' and from a distance, through social media and other channels.

The thread is about bullying in schools, where it CAN and should be controlled.

What happens on the social media is another matter and hardly controllable

jeremyp

  • Admin Support
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32509
  • Blurb
    • Sincere Flattery: A blog about computing
Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #69 on: August 25, 2015, 07:52:14 AM »
What I can't understand is that lying, breaking promises, slavery and murder can be lumped together in the same category as they cause harm (in the very broadest sense) to human beings and their wellbeing and welfare, whereas homosexuality doesn't. Quite the opposite, in fact.
And you have evidence to back up this assertion, Shaker?

I would suggest that homosexuals are generally more likely to have multiple partners than heterosexuals, and studies suggest that having multiple sexual partners makes one prone to mental health issues.  There is an interesting M.Sc in Abnormal and Clinical Psychology project on Acadamia.edu in which thew author finds the following results and comes to the subsequent conclusions:

Quote
Results:
This study found that depression, both self-reported and previously diagnosed, was associated with a variety of risky sexual behaviours including poor contraception use and having a sexually transmitted disease. Risky sexual behaviour was not found to correlate with low self-esteem; however, those of high self-esteem were significantly less likely to have risky sex. Early sexual initiation was not associated with depression but led to an increased subjective estimate of likelihood of risky sexual behaviours in the future. Males were found to be significantly more likely to engage in risky sex both with poor partner choice and infrequent use of contraception. Those of a low economic status were particularly susceptible to risky sexual behaviour.
Conclusions:
Risky sexual behaviour can have many negative consequences both in adolescence, as previous research has shown and, as this study reports, in later life. Poor contraceptive use and a poor choice of sexual partner can all severely impact mental health reducing self-esteem and increasing depression. The exact relationship between risky sexual behaviour and mental health is unclear; however, it is hoped that future longitudinal studies can improve our knowledge on this area. Education needs to be improved to reduce thenumber of sexually transmitted diseases and other risks that adolescents in particular may encounter. This can be carried out in schools and through a variety of media outlets. If thisis achieved risks to both physical and mental health can be reduced.
https://www.academia.edu/209711/Sexual_Behaviour_and_its_Mental_Health_Consequences

OK, whilst this is by no means conclusive, but the fact that the coinclusions include the thought that "The exact relationship between risky sexual behaviour and mental health is unclear", indicates that there is some degree of correlation.

Another article available on the web is entitled "Is There a Price to Pay for Promiscuity?".  It goes on to say that yes, there is - both physically and emotionally. http://www.everydayhealth.com/longevity/can-promiscuity-threaten-longevity.aspx

Another - available at http://tinyurl.com/qbmyvuo - states that "And yet hookups pose a significant threat to the physical and psychological health of these young individuals.

In addition to the known risks of contracting STDs, developing unwanted pregnancies, and being raped or otherwise assaulted, people who engage in casual sex may suffer emotional consequences that persist long after the details of an encounter are a dim memory. On college campuses, where brief sexual liaisons are prevalent, unanticipated results can jeopardize a student’s career. In the workplace, the results can be just as disastrous, if not more so."

Quote
A number of studies have investigated sexual exclusivity in homosexual relationships, particularly among gay men (e.g., Bell & Weinberg, 1978; Blasband & Peplau, 1985; Blumstein & Schwartz, 1983; Harry, 1984; Harry & DeVall, 1978; Harry & Lovely, 1979; Kurdek &  Schmitt, 1986; Peplau & Cochran, 1982; Peplau et al., 1978; McWhirter & Mattison, 1984). In general, homosexuals—especially gay men—appear to have more permissive attitudes about sexual fidelity than do heterosexuals (Peplau & Cochran, 1980). Blumstein and Schwartz (1983, p. 272) reported that for men in couples, 75% of husbands and 62% of heterosexual cohabitors believe monogamy is important, compared to only 35% of gay men. For women, 84% of wives, 70% of heterosexual cohabitors, and 71% of lesbians believe monogamy is important. For all groups except gay men, a majority endorse the virtues of sexual fidelity; among gay men, sexual exclusivity is the minority view.
This quote comes from a paper entitled "A Relationship Perspective on Homosexuality" page 338 - http://tinyurl.com/pn86rpv . I accept that it is 20-odd years old, but it highlights a number of issues that are unlikely to have changed dramatically over that period, all of which point to a greater likelihood of harm to homosexuals than to heterosexuals.

Obviously, as with ANY human interaction, one will find exceptions that run counter to the typically observed pattern, but society can't and doesn't design itself around the exception, but around the normal pattern.

I have found more recent material, but as I wanted to post material that has rigorous peer review support, I have avoided using stuff from groups such as Stonewall and Outrage!; CARM and Anglican Mainstream.

I think you'll struggle to find many unwanted pregnancies  amongst people who have homosexual relationships.

I think it's been said before, but being gay is not something you choose.  If gay men are more likely to have sexual partners, you ranting and raving about it will not help.  Perhaps society's historic attitude to gay relationships has contributed to the "problem", after all, it is only recently that gay people have been allowed to get married and no thanks to people like you.
This post and all of JeremyP's posts words certified 100% divinely inspired* -- signed God.
*Platinum infallibility package, terms and conditions may apply

Aruntraveller

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11087
Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #70 on: August 25, 2015, 08:24:47 AM »
You missed the point completely. Never mind.
Sorry to disappoint you, Trent, but I'm not going to be bullied into believing that bullying is acceptable provided the bully is someone whose outlook on life matches mine (or yours).

As I never implied or stated anything of the sort - or indeed tried to bully you I would appreciate an apology.

You appear unable to comprehend what has been written. Strange for such an experienced teacher.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 08:39:57 AM by Trentvoyager »
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Aruntraveller

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11087
Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #71 on: August 25, 2015, 08:45:25 AM »
What I can't understand is that lying, breaking promises, slavery and murder can be lumped together in the same category as they cause harm (in the very broadest sense) to human beings and their wellbeing and welfare, whereas homosexuality doesn't. Quite the opposite, in fact.
And you have evidence to back up this assertion, Shaker?

I would suggest that homosexuals are generally more likely to have multiple partners than heterosexuals, and studies suggest that having multiple sexual partners makes one prone to mental health issues.  There is an interesting M.Sc in Abnormal and Clinical Psychology project on Acadamia.edu in which thew author finds the following results and comes to the subsequent conclusions:

Quote
Results:
This study found that depression, both self-reported and previously diagnosed, was associated with a variety of risky sexual behaviours including poor contraception use and having a sexually transmitted disease. Risky sexual behaviour was not found to correlate with low self-esteem; however, those of high self-esteem were significantly less likely to have risky sex. Early sexual initiation was not associated with depression but led to an increased subjective estimate of likelihood of risky sexual behaviours in the future. Males were found to be significantly more likely to engage in risky sex both with poor partner choice and infrequent use of contraception. Those of a low economic status were particularly susceptible to risky sexual behaviour.
Conclusions:
Risky sexual behaviour can have many negative consequences both in adolescence, as previous research has shown and, as this study reports, in later life. Poor contraceptive use and a poor choice of sexual partner can all severely impact mental health reducing self-esteem and increasing depression. The exact relationship between risky sexual behaviour and mental health is unclear; however, it is hoped that future longitudinal studies can improve our knowledge on this area. Education needs to be improved to reduce thenumber of sexually transmitted diseases and other risks that adolescents in particular may encounter. This can be carried out in schools and through a variety of media outlets. If thisis achieved risks to both physical and mental health can be reduced.
https://www.academia.edu/209711/Sexual_Behaviour_and_its_Mental_Health_Consequences

OK, whilst this is by no means conclusive, but the fact that the coinclusions include the thought that "The exact relationship between risky sexual behaviour and mental health is unclear", indicates that there is some degree of correlation.

Another article available on the web is entitled "Is There a Price to Pay for Promiscuity?".  It goes on to say that yes, there is - both physically and emotionally. http://www.everydayhealth.com/longevity/can-promiscuity-threaten-longevity.aspx

Another - available at http://tinyurl.com/qbmyvuo - states that "And yet hookups pose a significant threat to the physical and psychological health of these young individuals.

In addition to the known risks of contracting STDs, developing unwanted pregnancies, and being raped or otherwise assaulted, people who engage in casual sex may suffer emotional consequences that persist long after the details of an encounter are a dim memory. On college campuses, where brief sexual liaisons are prevalent, unanticipated results can jeopardize a student’s career. In the workplace, the results can be just as disastrous, if not more so."

Quote
A number of studies have investigated sexual exclusivity in homosexual relationships, particularly among gay men (e.g., Bell & Weinberg, 1978; Blasband & Peplau, 1985; Blumstein & Schwartz, 1983; Harry, 1984; Harry & DeVall, 1978; Harry & Lovely, 1979; Kurdek &  Schmitt, 1986; Peplau & Cochran, 1982; Peplau et al., 1978; McWhirter & Mattison, 1984). In general, homosexuals—especially gay men—appear to have more permissive attitudes about sexual fidelity than do heterosexuals (Peplau & Cochran, 1980). Blumstein and Schwartz (1983, p. 272) reported that for men in couples, 75% of husbands and 62% of heterosexual cohabitors believe monogamy is important, compared to only 35% of gay men. For women, 84% of wives, 70% of heterosexual cohabitors, and 71% of lesbians believe monogamy is important. For all groups except gay men, a majority endorse the virtues of sexual fidelity; among gay men, sexual exclusivity is the minority view.
This quote comes from a paper entitled "A Relationship Perspective on Homosexuality" page 338 - http://tinyurl.com/pn86rpv . I accept that it is 20-odd years old, but it highlights a number of issues that are unlikely to have changed dramatically over that period, all of which point to a greater likelihood of harm to homosexuals than to heterosexuals.

Obviously, as with ANY human interaction, one will find exceptions that run counter to the typically observed pattern, but society can't and doesn't design itself around the exception, but around the normal pattern.

I have found more recent material, but as I wanted to post material that has rigorous peer review support, I have avoided using stuff from groups such as Stonewall and Outrage!; CARM and Anglican Mainstream.

And yet you dissaprove of gay marriage. Where already figures are showing increasing levels of fidelity between gay couples. So even though you could have helped gay people by recognising the importance of marriage for them - you choose not to.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Shaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15639
Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #72 on: August 25, 2015, 09:07:18 AM »
And you have evidence to back up this assertion, Shaker?
Yes, plenty - but since you habitually avoid answering questions put to you, I'm under no obligation to provide it.

Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Shaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15639
Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #73 on: August 25, 2015, 09:10:12 AM »
NS, trent has - and not for the first time - accused me of exemplifying homosexuality in a negative fashion.
When you compare it with lying, promise-breaking, slavery and murder, what do you expect?

When you claim that there are "good reasons" - still pointedly unexplained after several weeks - as to why "homosexuality has been viewed with revulsion through history and across cultures," what do you expect?

Or are you now saying that you didn't say these things?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Outrider

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14572
Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #74 on: August 25, 2015, 09:13:38 AM »
Too funny, I am not alone in my experience Outrider, I promise you that. And yes bullying can and is found in all schools but I am convinced that government tax funded schools have more of a problem. I've seen it. And I am not alone in seeing it.

People see lots of things, but that doesn't mean they're true - hence the well-studied, well-evidenced concept of confirmation bias.

Why would government-funded schools have more of a problem with bullying? Does the funding model lead to a selective intake? Are the children allergic to tax dollars? Are the observers pre-disposed to dislike the state or prefer the religious?

Even if I consider that your promise - entirely earnestly made, I'll accept - that other people have witnessed what you have and have come to the same conclusion, the plural of anecdote is still not fact.

O.
Universes are forever, not just for creation...

New Atheism - because, apparently, there's a use-by date on unanswered questions.

Eminent Pedant, Interpreter of Heretical Writings, Unwarranted Harvester of Trite Nomenclature, Church of Debatable Saints