Author Topic: Population & space  (Read 3651 times)

Sriram

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Population & space
« on: September 02, 2015, 06:20:05 AM »
Hi everyone,

A nice article from BBC about the future of the world in terms of population growth and availability of space.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150901-is-the-world-running-out-of-space

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Sometimes it’s difficult to fathom that the world could actually become even more crowded than it is today...

New estimates issued by the United Nations in July predict that, by 2030, our current 7.3 billion will have increased to 8.4 billion. That figure will rise to 9.7 billion by 2050, and to a mind-boggling 11.2 billion by 2100.

... as the world becomes even more crowded, will it become practically impossible to find a patch of land free from human settlement or presence? Will we eventually overtake all remaining habitable space?

...an increasing number of us will live out our lives in cities. As agriculture becomes more efficient, people abandon jobs in that shrinking and difficult sector and instead take up ones in urban manufacturing or service. This has been going on for some decades. In 1930, just 30% of the world’s population lived in cities, compared to about 55% today. By 2050, however, about two-thirds will be based in urban areas.

“It boils down to more than one million additional people living in cities every five to six days from now until 2100.”

It takes capable governments and institutions to organise basic amenities such as freshwater, sanitation and waste disposal. “But the problem,” Cohen says, “is that managerial talent is in short supply.”

Worryingly, the places that are most in need of such oversight today are also the ones where most of humanity’s growth is projected to occur. Much of the future population increase will come from Africa, which will shoot up from its current one billion people to over four billion by 2100.

Even in developed countries, however, standards of living will probably not continue to improve at the same rate as in recent years. “We’ve had a few decades of extraordinarily rapid economic growth, with poverty declining in both rich and poor countries,” Bongaarts says. “But this will become much more difficult in the future.”

The reasons, he says, are three-fold. Wealthy countries are ageing, meaning their rate of growth and innovation will begin to slow. Secondly, the environmental odds of unencumbered growth are stacked against us: we have already used up the most productive land, dammed the most energetically profitable rivers and tapped into the easiest-to-reach groundwater.

Finally, inequality is becoming an increasing problem. While the average American’s median income has not budged much in the past few decades, the top 1% is doing increasingly well. “That phenomenon will continue into the future and in part will be driven by environmental issues,” Bongaarts says.

None of this, however, means that we will run out of actual space to live. Around half of the world’s land currently holds around 2% of the planet’s population, whereas only about 3% of total land supports more than half of humanity.

Many decades from now, human population might even begin to decline. For the foreseeable future, however, we are headed toward an increasingly crowded Earth – although the conditions of that world are still uncertain. 

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Cheers.

Sriram

« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 06:22:26 AM by Sriram »

Shaker

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Re: Population & space
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2015, 09:23:43 AM »
As I may have mentioned before: we're screwed.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

floo

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Re: Population & space
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2015, 09:25:31 AM »
If the population continues to increase, it is possible that when you are born you are given your due death date! :o

Leonard James

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Re: Population & space
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2015, 09:35:03 AM »
I have no doubt humanity will take adequate measures before that time comes.

Environment care and controlled reproduction are the most obvious answers.

Aruntraveller

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Re: Population & space
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2015, 09:41:34 AM »
As I may have mentioned before: we're screwed.

Yep.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Shaker

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Re: Population & space
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2015, 09:42:48 AM »
I have no doubt humanity will take adequate measures before that time comes.

Environment care and controlled reproduction are the most obvious answers.
I would dearly love to believe that you're right, Len, but surely we already have more than enough evidence that when money comes into it the environment comes way down on the list of priorities. And while controlled reproduction is the obvious answer, people are going to be squealing about their human/God-given right to have children and damn the consequences for everybody else. The right to start a family is one of the provisions of the UN Declaration of Human Rights; fiddling with that will fare about as well as efforts to constrain the US Constitution's provision for people to own firearms, despite the carnage it causes on a regular basis.

Where's the environmental care in the rape and pillage of rain forest for logging, cattle and palm oil plantations?

I suspect that in the shorter term - within the next century or so - if the population continues to grow and environmental degradation gets even worse there may have to be some form of forcible controlled reproduction somewhere, but if people can't set aside their selfish interests and have to endure the stick rather than the carrot that's their fault.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 09:54:28 AM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Population & space
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2015, 09:48:46 AM »
I suspect that in the shorter term - within the next century or so - if the population continues to grow and environmental degradation gets even worse there may have to be some form of forcible controlled reproduction somewhere, but if people can't set aside their selfish interests and have to endure the stick rather than the carrot that's their fault.
Quite possibly one called War - not sure if it will be on a horse.

Leonard James

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Re: Population & space
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2015, 09:51:34 AM »
I have no doubt humanity will take adequate measures before that time comes.

Environment care and controlled reproduction are the most obvious answers.
I would dearly love to believe that you're right, Len, but surely we already have more than enough evidence that when money comes into it the environment comes way down on the list of priorities. And while controlled reproduction is the obvious answer, people are going to be squealing about their human/God-given right to have children and damn the consequences for everybody else.

Where's the environmental care in the rape and pillage of rain forest for logging, cattle and palm oil plantations?

I suspect that in the shorter term - within the next century or so - if the population continues to grow and environmental degradation gets even worse there may have to be some form of forcible controlled reproduction somewhere, but if people can't set aside their selfish interests and have to endure the stick rather than the carrot that's their fault.

You are right about Mammon, of course, but when the crunch is more imminent even money worshipers will have to come to their senses.

At the moment, it's to distant for them to care.  :(

Shaker

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Re: Population & space
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2015, 09:52:36 AM »
Quite possibly one called War - not sure if it will be on a horse.
It would have to be a war on a scale never yet seen on this planet. Usual estimates for the total deaths in WWII wobble around the 55 to 60,000,000 mark, but it made absolutely no difference whatever in terms of population growth.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Outrider

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Re: Population & space
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2015, 09:53:39 AM »
I have no doubt humanity will take adequate measures before that time comes.

I have no doubts humanity will continue to individually look out for primarily their own interests and screw future generations.

Quote
Environment care and controlled reproduction are the most obvious answers.

They are, but the people who need to realise that have vested interests in not doing so. The emerging nations and economies want the same prosperity the West has, but the West isn't prepared to share the wealth we've already generated off the back of pollution, so they simply produce more to catch up. Meanwhile, in the advanced economies a broad swathe of self-interest keeps trying to stay ahead of the natural swing of economics, denying climate science in favour of head in the oil-soaked sands selfishness whilst third-world nations benefit from modern medicine to keep their children alive but suffer the stupidity of pernicious religion depriving them of access to contraception, meaning that those that can least afford it are having the largest population growths.

The Earth isn't doomed, but humanity appears intent on outgrowing its own usefulness. Either a plague is going to hit or wars are going to erupt, because whether the Earth can contain that many people or not won't change the fact that people can't contain that many people.

O.
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Gonnagle

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Re: Population & space
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2015, 09:54:49 AM »
Dear Bluehillside ( where are you!! )

Hans Rosling, Ted Talks, this man has the answers.

Gonnagle.
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/shop/shop-search.htm

http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Go on make a difference, have a rummage in your attic or garage.

Gonnagle

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Re: Population & space
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2015, 10:01:07 AM »
Dear Outrider,

Oh you prophet of doom!!

Yes! All about greed, I know a great book that bangs on about man's greed, it also says a lot about Love and charity. ::) 8)

Gonnagle.
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Go on make a difference, have a rummage in your attic or garage.

Leonard James

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Re: Population & space
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2015, 10:02:35 AM »
I have no doubt humanity will take adequate measures before that time comes.

I have no doubts humanity will continue to individually look out for primarily their own interests and screw future generations.

Quote
Environment care and controlled reproduction are the most obvious answers.

They are, but the people who need to realise that have vested interests in not doing so. The emerging nations and economies want the same prosperity the West has, but the West isn't prepared to share the wealth we've already generated off the back of pollution, so they simply produce more to catch up. Meanwhile, in the advanced economies a broad swathe of self-interest keeps trying to stay ahead of the natural swing of economics, denying climate science in favour of head in the oil-soaked sands selfishness whilst third-world nations benefit from modern medicine to keep their children alive but suffer the stupidity of pernicious religion depriving them of access to contraception, meaning that those that can least afford it are having the largest population growths.

The Earth isn't doomed, but humanity appears intent on outgrowing its own usefulness. Either a plague is going to hit or wars are going to erupt, because whether the Earth can contain that many people or not won't change the fact that people can't contain that many people.

O.

Thank goodness I won't be around to watch it happen. I would die of frustration! ;D

Outrider

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Re: Population & space
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2015, 10:04:32 AM »
Dear Outrider,

Oh you prophet of doom!!

Yes! All about greed, I know a great book that bangs on about man's greed, it also says a lot about Love and charity. ::) 8)

Gonnagle.

Many pieces of great literature have lots to tell us about the nature of man the foibles of human society - however, when people become to fixated with a particular work it takes on a life of its own, and gets in the way of the message.

O.
Universes are forever, not just for creation...

New Atheism - because, apparently, there's a use-by date on unanswered questions.

Eminent Pedant, Interpreter of Heretical Writings, Unwarranted Harvester of Trite Nomenclature, Church of Debatable Saints

Leonard James

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Re: Population & space
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2015, 10:04:46 AM »
Dear Outrider,

Oh you prophet of doom!!

Yes! All about greed, I know a great book that bangs on about man's greed, it also says a lot about Love and charity. ::) 8)

Gonnagle.

Yes, some writers are exceedingly wise ... others not so!

Nearly Sane

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Re: Population & space
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2015, 10:06:47 AM »
It would have to be a war on a scale never yet seen on this planet. Usual estimates for the total deaths in WWII wobble around the 55 to 60,000,000 mark, but it made absolutely no difference whatever in terms of population growth.
I don't think it's just the scale that is the issue - it is also what we may be fighting for and how we can fight. we may well severly reduce the amount of livable area.

Gonnagle

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Re: Population & space
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2015, 10:09:36 AM »
Dear Outrider,

Post 13, very true, to many Bible believers not enough God believers.

Gonnagle.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Population & space
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2015, 10:29:46 AM »
Dear Outrider,

Oh you prophet of doom!!

Yes! All about greed, I know a great book that bangs on about man's greed, it also says a lot about Love and charity. ::) 8)

Gonnagle.

And of course there are those who read that same book and justify any actions as regards the earth as ok because they will all be raptured soon and so they don't need to worry, or because any climate disaster will either be ameliorated or approved of by their god

Gonnagle

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Re: Population & space
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2015, 10:39:41 AM »
Dear Sane,

Christian nutcases, Bible believers not God believers.

Once again for those in the poor seats, The Bible should not stop you thinking, it should make you stop and think.

Gonnagle.
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Udayana

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Re: Population & space
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2015, 11:22:15 AM »
We understand all these issues well enough to be able to solve them, so who's going to start doing it?
Managerial skills? - Who's in charge?

Answer: No one.
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

Nearly Sane

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Re: Population & space
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2015, 11:43:05 AM »
We understand all these issues well enough to be able to solve them, so who's going to start doing it?
Managerial skills? - Who's in charge?

Answer: No one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who%27s_on_First%3F

SusanDoris

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Re: Population & space
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2015, 12:06:19 PM »
We understand all these issues well enough to be able to solve them, so who's going to start doing it?
Managerial skills? - Who's in charge?

Answer: No one.
'Human Planet' by Dale Templar and Brian Leith, which I'm reading at present and for which there was a TV series I understand, does provide some optimistic trends.
The Most Honourable Sister of Titular Indecision.

ippy

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Re: Population & space
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2015, 06:13:48 PM »
Dear Sane,

Christian nutcases, Bible believers not God believers.

Once again for those in the poor seats, The Bible should not stop you thinking, it should make you stop and think.

Gonnagle.

You're right Gonners It makes you think, like, if someone wrote another book like this one I'll bet they wouldn't get away with it now, mind you there'll always be a few gullible nutters  _______

Yes your right, it does make you stop and think.

ippy