What is the difference................

[Rhiannon]

Hope, prayers are being asked for on the prayer board at present for a family in desperate need due to the very tragic circumstances facing them. If the lady concerned should recover I am in no doubt the deity will get all the accolades going. If she doesn't recover, the deity will not be blamed.

If the deity is capable of making people better why doesn't it do so, instead of playing silly beggars much of the time?

Floo, are there human agents who God can use in this case (I haven't read the thread, because of the abuse that I've seen so often on that board).

That's simply not true, Hope. If you look at the thread in question you will see believer and non-believer alike offering support, but on the board in general posters are respectful (see NS' thread on 9/11) and on the rare occasion someone does post out of turn it gets reported and removed.

[jeremyp]

did the medics you refer to enter medical school with absolutely no innate ability?  Did they go to school when they were 4 or 5 with no mental acuity?  Did they decide to study medicine at the last moment, or had they being preparing for this for some years? 

Their innate mental ability is a result of inheritance from their parents and possibly their early upbringing and experience. Their preparation for their medical courses involved years of study at school and hard working teachers.

Frankly, I think your intimation that medics' skills are "god given" does a disservice to all the people who worked so hard to get us to our present level of medical expertise.

[Shaker]

Frankly, I think your intimation that medics' skills are "god given" does a disservice to all the people who worked so hard to get us to our present level of medical expertise.

Exactly. It's not only stupid and lazy, it's a downright insult.

[Sassy]

I'm currently reading a fascinating book on East Anglian magic and folklore. It details everything from keeping mummified cats by the hearth to charms to trap 'imps' in bottles. People were just as likely to consult the local cunning man or wise woman as pray in church.

For me intent is key. I've mentioned before that I have no issue with destroying photographs. If however I deliberately scratched a face out of a photograph with the intent that it would hurt that person I believe it would have an effect because of what it would release within me.

I don't see the point in praying for things that go against the natural order. Asking for better health won't happen if you then eat pizza on the sofa, but if a prayer or ritual then focuses one's intent to eat better and be more active then it has done its job.

Wrong again! A curse or action won't harm a believer but it could come back on yourself. Christianity, is about forgiveness not revenge. It about the act of forgiveness and your last point is pretty moot too.

40 years the LORD God kept his people in the wilderness. There clothes and sandals never wore out. They had mainly manna for food and they were all healthy when they came out into the promise land.

Jesus Christ spent 40 days and night without food and water and in the desert.
He did not die and angels tended him after he was tempted by Satan. He offered him many things but the truth is...Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

It isn't what you eat that kills you it is your lack of knowledge about God.

[floo]

Christianity, is about forgiveness not revenge

But the you must be 'saved' lot don't believe that at all, if you don't believe you get sent to hell!

[Hope]

Christianity, is about forgiveness not revenge

But the you must be 'saved' lot don't believe that at all, if you don't believe you get sent to hell!

Floo, do you have evidence for this latest reiteration of this claim - a claim that you have never produced any viable evidence for in the past?  Remember that passages like that in Matt 25 refer to non-believers being allowed to follow the consequences that their choice naturally leads to - separation from God for eternity.

Matt 25:46 states "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life".  This makes no suggestion that anyone is 'despatched to' or 'sent to' anywhere - it indicates that individuals will simply be allowed to take the consequences of their choices.  Parallel passages in other gospels say the same.

[Leonard James]

I'm currently reading a fascinating book on East Anglian magic and folklore. It details everything from keeping mummified cats by the hearth to charms to trap 'imps' in bottles. People were just as likely to consult the local cunning man or wise woman as pray in church.

For me intent is key. I've mentioned before that I have no issue with destroying photographs. If however I deliberately scratched a face out of a photograph with the intent that it would hurt that person I believe it would have an effect because of what it would release within me.

I don't see the point in praying for things that go against the natural order. Asking for better health won't happen if you then eat pizza on the sofa, but if a prayer or ritual then focuses one's intent to eat better and be more active then it has done its job.

Wrong again! A curse or action won't harm a believer but it could come back on yourself. Christianity, is about forgiveness not revenge. It about the act of forgiveness and your last point is pretty moot too.

40 years the LORD God kept his people in the wilderness. There clothes and sandals never wore out. They had mainly manna for food and they were all healthy when they came out into the promise land.

Jesus Christ spent 40 days and night without food and water and in the desert.
He did not die and angels tended him after he was tempted by Satan. He offered him many things but the truth is...Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

It isn't what you eat that kills you it is your lack of knowledge about God.

Not much difference from the three bears providing Goldilocks with her breakfast.

[ippy]

Christianity, is about forgiveness not revenge

But the you must be 'saved' lot don't believe that at all, if you don't believe you get sent to hell!

Floo, do you have evidence for this latest reiteration of this claim - a claim that you have never produced any viable evidence for in the past?  Remember that passages like that in Matt 25 refer to non-believers being allowed to follow the consequences that their choice naturally leads to - separation from God for eternity.

Matt 25:46 states "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life".  This makes no suggestion that anyone is 'despatched to' or 'sent to' anywhere - it indicates that individuals will simply be allowed to take the consequences of their choices.  Parallel passages in other gospels say the same.

How silly.

ippy

[Hope]

How silly.

Are you suggesting that the idea that people 'suffer' the consequences of their choices is silly, ippy?  I thought that was one of the bases of humanistic thought 

[Shaker]

Are you suggesting that the idea that people 'suffer' the consequences of their choices is silly, ippy?

I rather think that ippy was referring to the idea of gods being involved in this as being silly, with which I'm in complete agreement.

I thought that was one of the bases of humanistic thought 

Not that I'm a humanist but I doubt it, given how obvious it is how often people don't suffer the consequences of their actions. Nor have I ever once seen it forming part of the definition of humanism from any quarter.

[ippy]

How silly.

Are you suggesting that the idea that people 'suffer' the consequences of their choices is silly, ippy?  I thought that was one of the bases of humanistic thought 

Shakes got it in one as for the rest of your post well of course I think about consequences only without superstition, myth or imagined magic in the way you do, that stuff is only in your mind Hope none of it's really exists, like I said it's silly.

ippy