Religious and educated?

[Gonnagle]

Dear Outrider,

We are all born atheist.

Gonnagle.

[Maeght]

Again, to note, atheism and agnosticism are not differing positions on the same axis, they are perfectly compatible with each other, and are positions on two fundamentally different questions.

Surprising how often that needs to be said.

[Nearly Sane]

If we were all default atheists and the concept of gods only came about through 'falling prey to patterns on indoctrination' then we could have no concepts of gods.

[Shaker]

Again, to note, atheism and agnosticism are not differing positions on the same axis, they are perfectly compatible with each other, and are positions on two fundamentally different questions.

Surprising how often that needs to be said.

Alas.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Outrider,

Should we stop calling humans, mean seeking animals.

Gonnagle.

[Hope]

Atheism has an indirect impact on ethics, as you need to explain the source of your particular view on any given moral point - religious people fall back on 'because God' (not meaning that dismissively, I appreciate there are scriptural citations to support a given point) whereas as atheism becomes more prevalent a moral philosophy has to be supported that does not rely on supernatural agencies for its foundation.

But moral philosophy still has to be supported by external agencies.  I, as an individual, can't decide what is OK and what is not in isolation.  The supporting structure becomes the social ethos of the day, which is ok for today, but with that ethos changing very rapidly, where does it put any of us tomorrow or in a year's time or whatever?  Isn't a moral philosophy meant to guide society, not be led by it?

[Hope]

Again, to note, atheism and agnosticism are not differing positions on the same axis, they are perfectly compatible with each other, and are positions on two fundamentally different questions.

You mean like religion and science aren't "differing positions on the same axis, they are perfectly compatible with each other, and are positions on two fundamentally different questions."

[Leonard James]

I'm glad you said it Len.

Sadly, education is not always able to overcome the adverse effects of previously planted ideas.

Len, I don't think there is a text book that outlines the case for atheism in the core subjects, geography, history, music or art.
It may crop up in RE but let's not forget, lots of atheists are campaigning for atheism to get INTO the curriculum.

So i'm afraid your contention looks like trouser talk.

If god ideas hadn't been invented by man to answer difficult questions, there would be no atheism to contest them.

[Shaker]

But moral philosophy still has to be supported by external agencies.  I, as an individual, can't decide what is OK and what is not in isolation.

Actually lots and lots of people do this all the time.

The supporting structure becomes the social ethos of the day, which is ok for today, but with that ethos changing very rapidly, where does it put any of us tomorrow or in a year's time or whatever?

In a different place. Welcome to the universe, where constant change is the order of the day. Get used to it, you'll have a better time

Isn't a moral philosophy meant to guide society, not be led by it?

Is it? Search me. This sounds incoherent anyway. If a moral philosophy is being led and not doing the guiding, it's being led by a different moral philosophy doing the guiding.

[Hope]

Is it? Search me. This sounds incoherent anyway. If a moral philosophy is being led and not doing the guiding, it's being led by a different moral philosophy.

Precisely; so what moral philosophy is the 'right' one?  By your argument, there is no reason why we, in the west, should be worrying about the moral philosophy of ISIS, or the people smugglers around the world.

[Nearly Sane]

Again, to note, atheism and agnosticism are not differing positions on the same axis, they are perfectly compatible with each other, and are positions on two fundamentally different questions.

You mean like religion and science aren't "differing positions on the same axis, they are perfectly compatible with each other, and are positions on two fundamentally different questions."

No, see YECs.

[Hope]

Actually lots and lots of people do this all the time.

And end up where?

[Gonnagle]

Dear Leonard,

Where did these God ideas come from.

Gonnagle.

[Shaker]

Precisely; so what moral philosophy is the 'right' one?

Whichever one is held at the time, by definiton. People don't usually say "My moral philosophy is X but X is wrong" any more than they say "I believe X but I am wrong to believe X." Doesn't happen.

By your argument, there is no reason why we, in the west, should be worrying about the moral philosophy of ISIS, or the people smugglers around the world.

No, because the moral philosophy most people adhere to sees suffering as bad and the alleviation or at least mitigation of suffering as good. That's not likely to change any time soon.

[Shaker]

Actually lots and lots of people do this all the time.

And end up where?

Depends. At least some rapists and murderers, unless they're in the grip of overwhelming compulsions they reject but can't control, must decide that rape and murder are OK, with negative consequences for others. On the other hand someone might decide that despite its illegality it's OK to smoke cannabis in their own home, with no negative consequences to anyone.

[Leonard James]

Dear Leonard,

Where did these God ideas come from.

Gonnagle.

The human imagination.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Leonard,

Are we born with imagination.

Gonnagle.

[Leonard James]

Dear Leonard,

Are we born with imagination.

Gonnagle.

I doubt it. It is probably an emergent property of the brain which develops as our lives unfold,

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Serious Atheism is an increasing world view

Yay 

I have no idea what Serious Atheism is. I have no real idea how any such thing would count as a world view, though to be honest dressing up the vast majority of people's set of mixed up prejudices, desires and reactions as a world view is, in my far from humble opinion, like putting a hat on a WII and saying it is your best friend Charlie

I'm not since you have described the ''messe perditio''.

Perhaps instead of saying serious atheists were increasing you would have had me say they were a tiny group who were getting louder?

[Gonnagle]

Dear Leonard,

We emerge into thoughts of God/gods, maybe Outrider is right, we are born atheist.

Gonnagle.

[Leonard James]

Dear Leonard,

We emerge into thoughts of God/gods, maybe Outrider is right, we are born atheist.

Gonnagle.

Did he say that? I don't think we are born either theist or atheist. At birth we have no knowledge of either.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Leonard,

Fascinating!

Being born, when we exit the womb, it is a bigger rush than sky diving, something to do with norepinephrine.

Gonnagle.

[Shaker]

Dear Leonard,

Fascinating!

Being born, when we exit the womb, it is a bigger rush than sky diving, something to do with norepinephrine.

Gonnagle.

Not if you were born by Caesarean, as I was.

Which probably explains why I always get out of the car through the sun roof.

[Leonard James]

Dear Leonard,

Fascinating!

Being born, when we exit the womb, it is a bigger rush than sky diving, something to do with norepinephrine.

Gonnagle.

Not if you were born by Caesarean, as I was.

Which probably explains why I always get out of the car through the sun roof.

 

And your Roman nose, of course!

[Leonard James]

Dear Leonard,

Fascinating!

Being born, when we exit the womb, it is a bigger rush than sky diving, something to do with norepinephrine.

Gonnagle.

You obviously know more about it than I do, Gonners! I can't even pronounce that word.