Religious and educated?

[Gonnagle]

Dear ippy,

Earlyman was ignorant of so many things but I would hazard a guess that he was far more in tune with his environment than we can ever begin to imagine.

Why did earlyman cry over his fallen prey, why did earlyman empathize with his prey, did he know something we don't or was he just a big softy.

Gonnagle.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Early man was ignorant about all sorts of things, so for anything they didn't understand, "I cant understand the why of all sorts of natural phenomena", the man looks up and ding ding, "I know because I can't explain things  it must be some sort of outside force that is doing and controlling things, what'll we call it", ding ding, "yes that's it we'll call it a god".

So the man or woman had original thoughts and didn't blindly follow the crowd. Unlike yer modern British apatheist who blindly follows the majority view.

[ippy]

Dear ippy,

Earlyman was ignorant of so many things but I would hazard a guess that he was far more in tune with his environment than we can ever begin to imagine.

Why did earlyman cry over his fallen prey, why did earlyman empathize with his prey, did he know something we don't or was he just a big softy.

Gonnagle.

Like I said, so what would be the point of me describing anything to you that you obviously don't want to hear or understand.

If you're so determined to think religions are anything more than man made, well that's your loss, not mine.

ippy 

[ippy]

Early man was ignorant about all sorts of things, so for anything they didn't understand, "I cant understand the why of all sorts of natural phenomena", the man looks up and ding ding, "I know because I can't explain things  it must be some sort of outside force that is doing and controlling things, what'll we call it", ding ding, "yes that's it we'll call it a god".

So the man or woman had original thoughts and didn't blindly follow the crowd. Unlike yer modern British apatheist who blindly follows the majority view.

We can all pick out parts of any post to make it look as though the original post said something other than that it did indeed say.

ippy

[ProfessorDavey]

Early man was ignorant about all sorts of things, so for anything they didn't understand, "I cant understand the why of all sorts of natural phenomena", the man looks up and ding ding, "I know because I can't explain things  it must be some sort of outside force that is doing and controlling things, what'll we call it", ding ding, "yes that's it we'll call it a god".

So the man or woman had original thoughts and didn't blindly follow the crowd. Unlike yer modern British apatheist who blindly follows the majority view.

On the contrary, because of course once the first early man came up with the concept of god to explain things he didn't understand he taught his kids to think the same etc etc. Generation after generation of early people merely accepting in an uncritical manner what they were told by their 'elders' and not thinking critically and demanding evidence.

Not surprising that we describe the point where people (in our western culture) began to challenge the orthodox, 'go with the majority accepted belief flow' as the enlightenment. At that point original thought became acceptable (rather than being seen as heretical) and people began to challenge the orthodox view, began to properly question, to ask for evidence, to be sceptical of views that must be accepted without challenge or evidence.

[Shaker]

So the man or woman had original thoughts and didn't blindly follow the crowd. Unlike yer modern British apatheist who blindly follows the majority view.

Does an apatheist actually follow anything? Sure about that Vlad?

[Gonnagle]

Dear ippy,

Fair enough old son, looks like you have made up your mind on the subject, me, I will keep an open mind on the subject.

Gonnagle.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Prof,

The concept of God, now where did that come from.

Gonnagle.

[ippy]

Dear ippy,

Fair enough old son, looks like you have made up your mind on the subject, me, I will keep an open mind on the subject.

Gonnagle.

Nothing like denial it'll see you through any rational logic those fools throw at you, mind your wheels don't come off of those rails you've so diligently set them on Gonners.

ippy

[ippy]

Dear Prof,

The concept of God, now where did that come from.

Gonnagle.

Have you tried Specsavers Gonners?

ippy

[Gonnagle]

Dear ippy,

Is this one of those ad homs I hear talk of on here.

Gonnagle.

[ippy]

Dear ippy,

Is this one of those ad homs I hear talk of on here.

Gonnagle.

Whatever, if you had read through the Proff's post properly there wouldn't be any reason to make the post that you did make, perhaps read it again?

ippy

[ProfessorDavey]

Dear Prof,

The concept of God, now where did that come from.

Gonnagle.

From the natural inquisitiveness of human kind (which is of course evolutionary) and therefore a need to try to explain things in the natural world around them. Couple that with a kind of inherent anthropomorphism (which again I think is evolutionarily driven) and humans, in the absence of other explanations, will invent a kind of super-human to be responsible for natural phenomena they can't explain.

Simple really.

[Shaker]

Dear Prof,

The concept of God, now where did that come from.

Gonnagle.

From the natural inquisitiveness of human kind (which is of course evolutionary) and therefore a need to try to explain things in the natural world around them. Couple that with a kind of inherent anthropomorphism (which again I think is evolutionarily driven) and humans, in the absence of other explanations, will invent a kind of super-human to be responsible for natural phenomena they can't explain.

Simple really.

Exactly. Justin Barrett coined the term hyperactive agency detection device for this faculty in the human brain.

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/hyperactive-agency-detection/

[Gonnagle]

Dear ippy,

The Prof is basically saying the same thing as you, and it seems he accepts the same story as you.

Man just thought up the concept of God, earlyman thought godidit, a very convenient story.

Gonnagle.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Shaker,

Thanks for the link, and as I have been trying to say, your link points out it does not answer the basic concept of God, theory of the mind.

Gonnagle.

[ProfessorDavey]

Dear ippy,

The Prof is basically saying the same thing as you, and it seems he accepts the same story as you.

Man just thought up the concept of God, earlyman thought godidit, a very convenient story.

Gonnagle.

I thought it is a little more nuanced that that, in that it requires inquisitiveness, plus things which early man couldn't explain. But basically yes, the concept of god invented by man as a godidit response.

What is perhaps more interesting is how that turns into religion and religion that perpetuates across generations. And here another evolutionary trait comes in. That of ritual and social cohesion in animals that are social and require transfer of information to young by learning. So to move from godidit (but nothing more) to godidit and must be appeased, worshiped, sucked up to (to ensure good or prevent bad) is fantastic at ensuring longevity because believers will think it incredibly important that their kids also learn to worship, appease etc for fear of horrific consequences.

So a god that is originally invented due to godidit but that invention goes further to require worship is likely to perpetuate more than one which is godidit but otherwise totally neutral.

[Leonard James]

Dear ippy,

The Prof is basically saying the same thing as you, and it seems he accepts the same story as you.

Man just thought up the concept of God, earlyman thought godidit, a very convenient story.

Gonnagle.

I don't think the concept of a creator god arose until long after primitive man began to believe in non-human spirits. I think he first used angry forces (spirits) to explain the natural misfortunes that he was beset with, and tried to find ways to appease their anger.

It was inevitable that such beliefs were expanded and worked on by tribes all over the world, and finally the major religions evolved.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Prof,

I am not arguing with your thinking, honestly! Just that concept of God!

Paleolithic man was not that bright ( or was he ) and I am only going with the evidence we have, but surely this concept was there way before him.
Dear Leonard,

A God, any God, where did this idea/concept come from.

Gonnagle.

[ippy]

Dear Shaker,

Thanks for the link, and as I have been trying to say, your link points out it does not answer the basic concept of God, theory of the mind.

Gonnagle.

If I've got it wrong Gonners, where's the evidence that would in any way support your god idea?

Don't you think the gaping great gap and the very unlikely event of this gap is ever going to be closed, might be telling you something?

Just for a moment suppose there is no god and you have accepted this, I very much doubt anyone, least of all your good self would live in any noticable differing way than you do at present; asuming that's so why bother with this god idea that is so unlikely to have any substance in it in the first place.

Just the time saved saying prayers for starters, would be one pay off.

ippy

The god idea was something made up for convenience, to explain things not understood, that then went on and became elaberated and so on and so on etc etc.

[Outrider]

I'm not the one confusing methodological naturalism(whether there is such a thing) or perhaps more properly methodological materialism with philosophical naturalism.

You don't think? I'd disagree. But, of course, to delve into that you'd have to do something rash like define what you mean by the terms you use, or actually engage rather than just sniping from the sidelines.

O.

[Outrider]

Dear Outrider,

Good post, one which I don't think I have any argument, but ( always a but ) I am not arguing are gods true, just the belief we have had for millions of years.

Gonnagle.

And there is some evidence that the belief has been useful, in some ways, in the past. However, it's rapidly approaching the point where it's beyond doubt that it's unnecessary, and that the remnants of it are perhaps becoming a net burden on society.

Whether it's actually true or not is becoming an important concept.

O.

[Gonnagle]

Dear ippy,

Not evidence for God, concept of god, do try and keep up old chap.

Gonnagle.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Dear Outrider,

Good post, one which I don't think I have any argument, but ( always a but ) I am not arguing are gods true, just the belief we have had for millions of years.

Gonnagle.

And there is some evidence that the belief has been useful, in some ways, in the past. However, it's rapidly approaching the point where it's beyond doubt that it's unnecessary, and that the remnants of it are perhaps becoming a net burden on society.

Society Outslider? surely you mean ''Atheist Master Race''.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Outrider,

Unnecessary! As long as it is replaced with compassion, compassion becomes the new religion.

We eat, drink, live compassion, when you eat your cornflakes in the morning you are thinking compassion.

When the politicians enact a new law, they ask, is this the compassionate thing to do.

We breath compassion, every thought, every move.

Gonnagle.