Carmichael case in court

[Nearly Sane]

While I think this has little chance of success, it is intriguing and I think under reported currently. Should it succeed it will have some very interesting repercussions.



http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-34154193

[jeremyp]

Regardless of the merits of this case, I'd like there to be a recall system, because at the moment, MPs do not really have any accountability to their constituents. 

Given the first past the post system, an MP's first loyalty must be to the people he represents, not the party he belongs to (in my opinion) but the whipping system totally undermines that.

[Anchorman]

While I think this has little chance of success, it is intriguing and I think under reported currently. Should it succeed it will have some very interesting repercussions.



http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-34154193

-
Interesting that funding for the prosecution has come about by crowdfunding.

[Jack Knave]

Regardless of the merits of this case, I'd like there to be a recall system, because at the moment, MPs do not really have any accountability to their constituents. 

Neither do the EU Commissionaires or the thousands that lobby them nor the endless bribes and payoffs. The EU is far from accountable and is a miasma of mafiaesque ratchet.

[jeremyp]

Regardless of the merits of this case, I'd like there to be a recall system, because at the moment, MPs do not really have any accountability to their constituents. 

Neither do the EU Commissionaires or the thousands that lobby them nor the endless bribes and payoffs. The EU is far from accountable and is a miasma of mafiaesque ratchet.

What has that got to do with the Carmichael case?

[Harrowby Hall]

Regardless of the merits of this case, I'd like there to be a recall system, because at the moment, MPs do not really have any accountability to their constituents. 

Given the first past the post system, an MP's first loyalty must be to the people he represents, not the party he belongs to (in my opinion) but the whipping system totally undermines that.

Constitutionally, a Member of Parliament is a representative not a delegate. He owes his constituents a duty of responsible consideration not slavish obediance. He represents all who voted, not just those who voted for him. Under the present constutional arrangements it would be very difficult to justify any recall process.

MPs argue that by supporting one party's programme exclusively they are showing resposible consideration and judgement.

[jeremyp]

Constitutionally, a Member of Parliament is a representative not a delegate. He owes his constituents a duty of responsible consideration not slavish obediance. He represents all who voted, not just those who voted for him. Under the present constutional arrangements it would be very difficult to justify any recall process.

Yes but I am suggesting that the present constitutional arrangements be changed.  Therefore, this argument is invalid.

[Jack Knave]

Regardless of the merits of this case, I'd like there to be a recall system, because at the moment, MPs do not really have any accountability to their constituents. 

Neither do the EU Commissionaires or the thousands that lobby them nor the endless bribes and payoffs. The EU is far from accountable and is a miasma of mafiaesque ratchet.

What has that got to do with the Carmichael case?

You're stupidly pro EU and you said,"I'd like there to be a recall system, because at the moment, MPs do not really have any accountability to their constituents."

So to be consistent, and not to be two faced and hypocritical, you should be horrified that the EU lot and Brussels are not accountable and can not be recalled by any measure.

[Harrowby Hall]

Constitutionally, a Member of Parliament is a representative not a delegate. He owes his constituents a duty of responsible consideration not slavish obediance. He represents all who voted, not just those who voted for him. Under the present constutional arrangements it would be very difficult to justify any recall process.

Yes but I am suggesting that the present constitutional arrangements be changed.  Therefore, this argument is invalid.

No, it is not invalid. But it would be if your constitutional change occurred.

[jeremyp]

You're stupidly pro EU and you said,"I'd like there to be a recall system, because at the moment, MPs do not really have any accountability to their constituents."

So to be consistent, and not to be two faced and hypocritical, you should be horrified that the EU lot and Brussels are not accountable and can not be recalled by any measure.

So this is a massive fallacious tu quoque argument.  Good for you.

[Outrider]

Good to see the spirit of impartial journalism is as dead north of the border as it is this side...

O.

[Anchorman]

Kavanagh has never claimed to be a journalist!

[Hope]

Jim, are you suggesting that Alistair Carmichael has never been challenged by any other candidate, either for the Lib-Dems of any other party?  Are you suggesting that there hasn't been at least 3 opportunities for the electorate of his constituency to replace him since 2005?  Could reality be that the said electorate continued to support him, even on the grounds that he is the best of a bunch of poor options?

After all, an SNP majority in Scotland would almost inevitably have seen Labour fall short of a Westminster majority, as events have shown.

[Jack Knave]

You're stupidly pro EU and you said,"I'd like there to be a recall system, because at the moment, MPs do not really have any accountability to their constituents."

So to be consistent, and not to be two faced and hypocritical, you should be horrified that the EU lot and Brussels are not accountable and can not be recalled by any measure.

So this is a massive fallacious tu quoque argument.  Good for you.

I hope you realise the tu quoque is on you.

[Nearly Sane]

I have to admit to being a little surprised that this progressed but suspect that it is too interesting a case for the judges not to want to have the chance at history



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-34390705

[Nearly Sane]

Blog laying out some of the problems that Alistair now finds himself in
 Still can't see how you can prove the case.


http://lallandspeatworrier.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/carmichael-questions-carmichael-answers.html?m=1

[Nearly Sane]

And case found to have reasonable doubt which seemed inevitable to me, though an interesting case


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35049150

[ProfessorDavey]

Given the first past the post system, an MP's first loyalty must be to the people he represents, not the party he belongs to (in my opinion) but the whipping system totally undermines that.

But I don't think you can really separate 'person' from 'party'.

With very few exceptions MPs are elected on the basis of the party they stand for. The notion of the 'persona' vote' i.e. people voting for the individual even though they wouldn't normally vote for that person's party is very limited. First and foremost people vote Labour, or Tory etc, the actual name on the ballot paper next to the party logo is secondary.

So I do think that an MP elected by his or her constituents on a 'party ticket' does need to have a responsibility to their party, because had they stood as an independent or for a different party they wouldn't have got elected.

[Nearly Sane]

This


http://www.thenational.scot/comment/andrew-tickell-carmichael-survived-but-that-doesnt-mean-he-won.11020