On Giving People A Burden To Carry

[Keith Maitland]

How is it that a parent can justify giving their children life? Life is inherently a burden. The job of survival, navigating the social world, dealing with one's own personality, overcoming inevitable adversities and sufferings....

How can people justify making a new person have to carry this burden? How can one justify creating an imposition for a new consciousness?

[Sriram]

Most often it is instinctive and people reproduce because they are compelled by nature to mate and reproduce....not very different from animals. Living, fighting to survive, reproducing ...are natural events and we all are programmed to do it.

Of course, it is true that in trying circumstances, we humans can decide not to have children. But that is not the norm and many people would rather have children than not.....even under difficult circumstances.   

Your questions seem more to do with the 'why' of philosophy. We have already discussed that in many threads.

[Nearly Sane]

Why do you continually present opinion as fact, Keith?

[Hope]

How is it that a parent can justify giving their children life? Life is inherently a burden. The job of survival, navigating the social world, dealing with one's own personality, overcoming inevitable adversities and sufferings....

How can people justify making a new person have to carry this burden? How can one justify creating an imposition for a new consciousness?

Firstly, I would disagree with your suggestion that life is inherently a burden, Keith.  Rather than life being inherently a burden, I would suggest that the burden is what expectations parents and society put upon a child - not anything that they are born with.  Secondly, at least in my own experience, I would suggest that inevitable joys, challenges and adventures have outweighed any adversities and sufferings.  I would even go as far as to suggest that what you might regard as adversities would be regarded as challenges by others.

[Hope]

Why do you continually present opinion as fact, Keith?

Don't we all do this, NS?

[floo]

How is it that a parent can justify giving their children life? Life is inherently a burden. The job of survival, navigating the social world, dealing with one's own personality, overcoming inevitable adversities and sufferings....

How can people justify making a new person have to carry this burden? How can one justify creating an imposition for a new consciousness?

You have created a similar thread before Keith! My kids, who are now adults, seem pleased with their lives as do their children!

Stop being such a flipping misery, KM, most of your threads are depressing! There are good things in this life, you know!

[Owlswing]

How is it that a parent can justify giving their children life? Life is inherently a burden. The job of survival, navigating the social world, dealing with one's own personality, overcoming inevitable adversities and sufferings....

How can people justify making a new person have to carry this burden? How can one justify creating an imposition for a new consciousness?

Because wanking is a sin - especially when it is a person's total sex life!

[Shaker]

Because I don't see life as a burden Keith.

Some do, however.

[Udayana]

Basically its because we are animals. We go through, mainly hormonal, changes that make it seem like a good idea - usually after teaming up with a suitable mate.

It is possible that beyond a certain level of development, intelligence or knowledge, we decide not to reproduce. ie. some people will reach a level at which they will desist having children. It may be that intelligence is self-limiting in this way?

[Owlswing]

. . . usually after teaming up with a suitable mate.

Ah, there is the rub!

What percentage actually are classifiable as "suitable"?

I, sure as the Goddess made little green apples, wish I knew - I didn't and wound up with two monstrously unsuitable partners, but with three of the greatest kids in the world.

[Rhiannon]

Tell me about it, Matt!

[BeRational]

How is it that a parent can justify giving their children life? Life is inherently a burden. The job of survival, navigating the social world, dealing with one's own personality, overcoming inevitable adversities and sufferings....

How can people justify making a new person have to carry this burden? How can one justify creating an imposition for a new consciousness?

If anyone feels it a burden, then have the option to leave.

[Rhiannon]

Because I don't see life as a burden Keith.

Some do, however.

Yes but as a parent you don't know in advance if your children will. So far my three seem to find life a blast.

[Outrider]

How is it that a parent can justify giving their children life?

They don't have to justify it, once it's done it's too late, and before it's done there're no children to complain.

Life is inherently a burden.

Misery, though, loves company.

The job of survival, navigating the social world, dealing with one's own personality, overcoming inevitable adversities and sufferings....

Yeah, all that terrible friendship, falling in love, finding exciting new... places... hang on, it seems you may be stuck in Dismal-land.

How can people justify making a new person have to carry this burden? How can one justify creating an imposition for a new consciousness?

I like my life. I think a life is a fantastic gift to share. I wouldn't want to share your experience with someone, but then I suspect I wouldn't raise a child with that world-view.

O.

[Rhiannon]

How is it that a parent can justify giving their children life? Life is inherently a burden. The job of survival, navigating the social world, dealing with one's own personality, overcoming inevitable adversities and sufferings....

How can people justify making a new person have to carry this burden? How can one justify creating an imposition for a new consciousness?

If anyone feels it a burden, then have the option to leave.

I personally don't believe that option should be taken if you are a parent unless you are terminally ill. I say this after talking to adults whose parents had committed suicide when they were younger.

[Rhiannon]

O, I like my life too. I find it beyond frustrating that I've had mental illness that has stopped me enjoying my life from time to time because generally I think being alive is bloody brilliant.

[Outrider]

How is it that a parent can justify giving their children life? Life is inherently a burden. The job of survival, navigating the social world, dealing with one's own personality, overcoming inevitable adversities and sufferings....

How can people justify making a new person have to carry this burden? How can one justify creating an imposition for a new consciousness?

If anyone feels it a burden, then have the option to leave.

I personally don't believe that option should be taken if you are a parent unless you are terminally ill. I say this after talking to adults whose parents had committed suicide when they were younger.

I think I get what you mean, but I'd specify that as a parent of children I think it's selfish - if you're children are adults it's a slightly different situation.

O.

[Outrider]

O, I like my life too. I find it beyond frustrating that I've had mental illness that has stopped me enjoying my life from time to time because generally I think being alive is bloody brilliant.

All mental conditions are different, of course, but I find mine doesn't stop me appreciating, it just means I appreciate it in a different way to most. Then again, my condition is less of a diagnosis and more of a description of 'doesn't look at the world like most people do'.

O.

[Rhiannon]

How is it that a parent can justify giving their children life? Life is inherently a burden. The job of survival, navigating the social world, dealing with one's own personality, overcoming inevitable adversities and sufferings....

How can people justify making a new person have to carry this burden? How can one justify creating an imposition for a new consciousness?

If anyone feels it a burden, then have the option to leave.

I personally don't believe that option should be taken if you are a parent unless you are terminally ill. I say this after talking to adults whose parents had committed suicide when they were younger.

I think I get what you mean, but I'd specify that as a parent of children I think it's selfish - if you're children are adults it's a slightly different situation.

O.

One guy I knew lost his dad to suicide when he was in his early twenties. I think there comes a time when children are mature enough to understand that a parent's suicide doesn't say anything about them but not many have reached it by that age.

[Rhiannon]

O, I like my life too. I find it beyond frustrating that I've had mental illness that has stopped me enjoying my life from time to time because generally I think being alive is bloody brilliant.

All mental conditions are different, of course, but I find mine doesn't stop me appreciating, it just means I appreciate it in a different way to most. Then again, my condition is less of a diagnosis and more of a description of 'doesn't look at the world like most people do'.

O.

Mine arose out of a combination of trauma and a dysfunctional relationship. It's such a relief when I feel 'normal'.

[Outrider]

O, I like my life too. I find it beyond frustrating that I've had mental illness that has stopped me enjoying my life from time to time because generally I think being alive is bloody brilliant.

All mental conditions are different, of course, but I find mine doesn't stop me appreciating, it just means I appreciate it in a different way to most. Then again, my condition is less of a diagnosis and more of a description of 'doesn't look at the world like most people do'.

O.

Mine arose out of a combination of trauma and a dysfunctional relationship. It's such a relief when I feel 'normal'.

My son and I share a catch-phrase - normal's over-rated

O.

[Rhiannon]

I meant normal for me. 

[Keith Maitland]

O,

How is it that a parent can justify giving their children life?

They don't have to justify it, once it's done it's too late, and before it's done there're no children to complain.

Life is inherently a burden.

Misery, though, loves company.

The job of survival, navigating the social world, dealing with one's own personality, overcoming inevitable adversities and sufferings....

Yeah, all that terrible friendship, falling in love, finding exciting new... places... hang on, it seems you may be stuck in Dismal-land.

How can people justify making a new person have to carry this burden? How can one justify creating an imposition for a new consciousness?

I like my life. I think a life is a fantastic gift to share. I wouldn't want to share your experience with someone, but then I suspect I wouldn't raise a child with that world-view.

O.

People aren't wired to think about life or why they live, they just do it. It's natural to us, we're animals, and so everything we're driven to do likewise confronts us as natural. Socratic philosophy is a weird poison or defect, whereby that life reflects on itself, which it isn't "supposed to do" -- the usual reaction to it is to lash out. It's a kind of intellectual mutation that robs life of its worth. Honest philosophy is poisonous to the opinion of life, and maybe even to life itself.

I think philosophy is always going to be confined to a few "defective" individuals in that way, unless the intellectual landscape of the human race changes for some reason. So people will keep on doing what they do.

[Keith Maitland]

BR,

How is it that a parent can justify giving their children life? Life is inherently a burden. The job of survival, navigating the social world, dealing with one's own personality, overcoming inevitable adversities and sufferings....

How can people justify making a new person have to carry this burden? How can one justify creating an imposition for a new consciousness?

If anyone feels it a burden, then have the option to leave.

Not really.

What about the absolute soul-crushing grief after suicide for family, friends and even communities?

[Outrider]

People aren't wired to think about life or why they live, they just do it. It's natural to us, we're animals, and so everything we're driven to do likewise confronts us as natural. Socratic philosophy is a weird poison or defect, whereby that life reflects on itself, which it isn't "supposed to do" -- the usual reaction to it is to lash out.

How can it be a 'defect' if there isn't a plan or intention? Defect is a failure to achieve the desired performance, but there is no desired performance.

As to the contention that the usual reaction is to lash out, there's certainly a propensity for violence and anger in human emotions, but as we mature we put those into context, and increasingly see that they are self-defeating and grow beyond them.

It's a kind of intellectual mutation that robs life of its worth. Honest philosophy is poisonous to the opinion of life, and maybe even to life itself.

It only 'robs life of its worth' if you fall prey to it, and give it power of you. You select how you respond to life, the elements you focus on are what define your world-view. If your life dissatisfies you, change your life. Mine's absolutely fine, thanks you very much.

I think philosophy is always going to be confined to a few "defective" individuals in that way, unless the intellectual landscape of the human race changes for some reason. So people will keep on doing what they do.

Philosophy lends itself to a particularly introspective, linguistically sophisticated mind-set, yes. People will, in the main, continue to do what they've always done, just with new fashions. People, through history, have found things to enjoy in life, reasons to be happy - another thing that is unlikely to change.

O.