Long to Reign over Us.

[jeremyp]

Oh and I thought we were going to have a happy afternoon of YouTube vids and schoolboy jokes. 

We have a number of frothing-at-the-mouth republicans on the forum.  There's no chance that any thread about the Royal Family is going to stay out of vitriol mode.

[Aruntraveller]

Oh and I thought we were going to have a happy afternoon of YouTube vids and schoolboy jokes. 

We have a number of frothing-at-the-mouth republicans on the forum.  There's no chance that any thread about the Royal Family is going to stay out of vitriol mode.

Oh I don't know about that - the most vitriolic post so far has come from a monarchist. 

The little b*tch Diana played to the gallery always upstaging her husband, whilst her death was tragic for her kids, no doubt, she is no loss, imo!

[Harrowby Hall]

Ooh, is the Mallard there? Might be worth a look after all.

No, not Mallard but Union of South Africa which is another of the preserved members of the A4 class. I'm not sure that Mallard is currently certified for mail line use.

I've just heard a news report about today's rail journey and heard the unmistakable "chime" whistle unique to the A4s. I well recall lying awake as a child in our home in Grantham hearing this chime across the valley in the middle of the night.

[Rhiannon]

Ooh, is the Mallard there? Might be worth a look after all.

No, not Mallard but Union of South Africa which is another of the preserved members of the A4 class. I'm not sure that Mallard is currently certified for mail line use.

I've just heard a news report about today's rail journey and heard the unmistakable "chime" whistle unique to the A4s. I well recall lying awake as a child in our home in Grantham hearing this chime across the valley in the middle of the night.

I only know about this because my eldest was into trains and loved watching DVDs aimed at the nostalgia/enthusiast market. The Mallard was and is her favourite, along with the other A4s. She'll be interested to watch this later.

[Rhiannon]

Oh and I thought we were going to have a happy afternoon of YouTube vids and schoolboy jokes. 

We have a number of frothing-at-the-mouth republicans on the forum.  There's no chance that any thread about the Royal Family is going to stay out of vitriol mode.

Shame. Watching small kittens attack massive dogs is much more fun.

[Aruntraveller]

Well I am a republican (although I think not a frothing at the mouth type) and I think it is a little hard-hearted not to recognise the achievements of the Queen (we will now get a long list of imagined sleights from some quarters) on this anniversary.

Anyway it does amuse me that some posters can see so clearly through an anachronistic, wildly undemocratic system that is fundamentally a tool of oppression to keep ordinary people in their places - and yet, at the same time they cling to other systems that are designed to achieve many of the same aims.

[Rhiannon]

Would you say that the monarchy has anything like the influence of the church these says, Trent? I certainly think not.

[Shaker]

Well I am a republican (although I think not a frothing at the mouth type) and I think it is a little hard-hearted not to recognise the achievements of the Queen (we will now get a long list of imagined sleights from some quarters) on this anniversary.

Allow the granite-hearted amongst us to pipe up: her most significant achievement appears to have been to have said and done very little whatsoever to attract much attention for sixty-odd years.

[jeremyp]

Oh and I thought we were going to have a happy afternoon of YouTube vids and schoolboy jokes. 

We have a number of frothing-at-the-mouth republicans on the forum.  There's no chance that any thread about the Royal Family is going to stay out of vitriol mode.

Oh I don't know about that - the most vitriolic post so far has come from a monarchist. 

For fairness, I should have put "We have a number of frothing-at-the-mouth republicans and monarchists on the forum..." but I lean towards the monarchist side myself so I am naturally going to paint the republicans in the worst light.

[Aruntraveller]

Would you say that the monarchy has anything like the influence of the church these says, Trent? I certainly think not.

Well John Major was interviewed about the monarchy on TV last night, and for possibly the first time in his life he said something interesting.

He said given that conversations between PM's and the Queen are never divulged how would ordinary mortals (I paraphrase here) ever know what influence she wields.

I think from his comments, and the context he was clearly implying that she does wield considerable influence behind the scenes - but whether that was his attempt to bolster Madge's position/image or whether it was the truth, we'll never know.

Who said I was comparing it to the church?

I was thinking of the Conservative party 

[Anchorman]

Would you say that the monarchy has anything like the influence of the church these says, Trent? I certainly think not.

-
Possibly there is more symbolism attached to the role in England - especially with the monarch being 'Supreme Governor of the CofE'.
However, even in pre-Reformation times, the kings of Scots found it very difficult to assert their role as 'king by divine right'. Probably only three ever managed it to any degree - Alexander III, Robert I and James IV.
The remainder ruled through manipulating the great families - Stewarts, Douglasses, McDonalds, etc, and marrying their offspring, legitimate and illegitimate, into them.
They were, on the whole 'first among equals'.
After the Reformation, Mary Stuart was virtually ignored by her courtiers, and James VI ruled Scotland from afar mainly by committee. He was the last to understand the Scots.
Since then, they/we have treated the institution with a wry scepticism, at times acknowledging, at times reviling it.
The present monarch, Elizabeth I, does her job well - very well.
It's simply that I don't think that there should BE a job for her to do.

[ProfessorDavey]

Would you say that the monarchy has anything like the influence of the church these says, Trent? I certainly think not.

Well John Major was interviewed about the monarchy on TV last night, and for possibly the first time in his life he said something interesting.

He said given that conversations between PM's and the Queen are never divulged how would ordinary mortals (I paraphrase here) ever know what influence she wields.

I think from his comments, and the context he was clearly implying that she does wield considerable influence behind the scenes - but whether that was his attempt to bolster Madge's position/image or whether it was the truth, we'll never know.

Who said I was comparing it to the church?

I was thinking of the Conservative party 

I think the Queen wields a huge amount of 'soft power' - not overtly and directly but through maintenance of the establishment structures in the UK - and those establishment structures, while they remain and remain strong through mutual support, have enormous power.

[Gonnagle]

Dearie me,

A brilliant Ambassador, this has been discussed before, who else could do such a brilliant job in promoting this country, she wields enormous power just by being the Queen.

Gonnagle.

[Outrider]

Dearie me,

A brilliant Ambassador, this has been discussed before, who else could do such a brilliant job in promoting this country, she wields enormous power just by being the Queen.

Gonnagle.

Any head of state is a fantastic ambassador - the fact we have a head of state isn't the issue, the present incumbent isn't, intrinsically, the issue (on the whole she's been reasonably good), but the process whereby they come to the role most definitely is an issue, and is emblematic of an ongoing issue this nation has yet to completely overcome.

O.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Outrider,

I have read enough Anchorman posts to kind of agree with you

But the good lady has done a great job for this country, something we should all celebrate.

Gonnagle.

[Anchorman]

Dear Outrider,

I have read enough Anchorman posts to kind of agree with you

But the good lady has done a great job for this country, something we should all celebrate.

Gonnagle.

-
Whether Lizzie has or has not done a 'good job for this country' (whatever that is) is immaterial.
As I posted, she has done a reasonably good job....but it's a job she should not be doing.
A job NO-ONE should be doing.
Why should anyone give their alliegance to someone because they were born in the right bed at the right time?

[Gonnagle]

Dear Jim,

Aye awe right big man, whit else should we get rid of, oh I know!! That bloody English invention, the dress kilt

Bye the way, I still love.

Gonnagle.

[Rhiannon]

I think if the Queen really had any power she'd have told Tony Blair where to stick his Millennium Dome party.

I don't know if there are more monarchists than Christians but I doubt many if the former are troubled by the Queen's views on who they sleep with, what contraception they use or whether they divorce.

[ProfessorDavey]

I think if the Queen really had any power she'd have told Tony Blair where to stick his Millennium Dome party.

I don't know if there are more monarchists than Christians but I doubt many if the former are troubled by the Queen's views on who they sleep with, what contraception they use or whether they divorce.

Interesting that in the news over the last couple of days in the run up to the Queen becoming the longest reigning monarch there was discussion over her publicly giving her views.

The point being that since becoming Queen she has been very careful not too but was a little less reticent in her earlier days - with reports of some rather strong comments (negative) on the notion of divorce.

[Hope]

I don't know if there are more monarchists than Christians but I doubt many if the former are troubled by the Queen's views on who they sleep with, what contraception they use or whether they divorce.

Not sure that the latter two issues create any real issue for Christians, Rhi.  So, what's the point you're trying make through your first issue?

[Rhiannon]

PD, she can hardly criticise divorcees now. But even if she is against it (or gay relationships/marriage) she can't tell anyone they are outside of her country and her duty as a result.

[Shaker]

What contraception people use and whether they divorce seem to be a big issue for Catholics, or are you going to be one of that group who considers Catholics not to be Christians?

[Hope]

I think from his comments, and the context he was clearly implying that she does wield considerable influence behind the scenes - but whether that was his attempt to bolster Madge's position/image or whether it was the truth, we'll never know.

No doubt she does - I don'think that many Brits believe that she doesn't; what we won't know is how often has that influence stopped the Government taking Britain to war; how often have social reform ideas come from her before coming from Government ministers; in other words, how often has that influence actually benefitted the ordinary British citizen and how often hasn't it?

[Outrider]

No doubt she does - I don'think that many Brits believe that she doesn't; what we won't know is how often has that influence stopped the Government taking Britain to war; how often have social reform ideas come from her before coming from Government ministers; in other words, how often has that influence actually benefitted the ordinary British citizen and how often hasn't it?

Which is part of the problem with the institution. Even if we all agree that, on balance, Queen Elizabeth II has been a pretty good, caring, reticent, politically neutral in the public arena monarch, the system means that there is no accountability, no right of recall, and no transparency.

O.

[Hope]

What contraception people use and whether they divorce seem to be a big issue for Catholics, or are you going to be one of that group who considers Catholics not to be Christians?

Shaker, if you look at stats, "what contraception people use and whether they divorce" may be an issue for the leadership of the Catholic Church but the only way that they seem to be an issue for most ordinary Catholics is in their ignoring of most of the ecclesiastical legislation regarding them.