God's Job ?!?!?!

[Outrider]

I'm glad there's been a lighthearted set of responses on this topic but let's keep it, for now, to the idea that God DOES exist.

SOOO What the heck does He do with His time ?

What time? I'm not up on Hindu theology, or much animism, but I'm presuming the question is primarily concerning the Abrahamic deity anyway so...

If God exists outside of the universe, time as we experience isn't something that happens. God is aware of the entire timespan of the universe, because time is simply another dimension that already exists in its entirety. We experience time from our limited view of that one dimension as we move along it, inside the universe.

Outside the universe, our time isn't there, it's a facet of the universe we exist in, that God - already extant - created.

Obviously, not my personal view, just the conclusions of Christian theology, so far as I've managed to understand it.

O.

[Leonard James]

Outside the universe, our time isn't there, it's a facet of the universe we exist in, that God - already extant - created.


O.

Using the word "already" in this phrase suggests there was a time before the universe was created, when "God" was extant but the universe wasn't.

[Outrider]

Outside the universe, our time isn't there, it's a facet of the universe we exist in, that God - already extant - created.


O.

Using the word "already" in this phrase suggests there was a time before the universe was created, when "God" was extant but the universe wasn't.

From inside, where time exists, it occured before that time, so therefore God 'already' existed - from God's point of view God still existed - our language and cognitive structure don't deal well with extra-temporal concepts, it's outside of the framework in which we develop our cognitive mechanisms.

O.

[Leonard James]

From inside, where time exists, it occured before that time, so therefore God 'already' existed - from God's point of view God still existed - our language and cognitive structure don't deal well with extra-temporal concepts, it's outside of the framework in which we develop our cognitive mechanisms.

O.

So "God" and the universe have always existed. If that is the case how can "God" have created it, if it was co-existent with him?

[Nearly Sane]

At times when we end up in the talk of not living in the same dimensions, I am reminded of the novella described in the link below. And yet notionally in that, it seems the more dimensions one is 'in' then the more complex one's knowledge is. As Outrider says, I think once we talk about concepts such as existence, which are definitionally time infused, being outside time we have fallen into a linguistic black hole of self referential meaninglessness

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland

[Leonard James]

At times when we end up in the talk of not living in the same dimensions, I am reminded of the novella described in the link below. And yet notionally in that, it seems the more dimensions one is 'in' then the more complex one's knowledge is. As Outrider says, I think once we talk about concepts such as existence, which are definitionally time infused, being outside time we have fallen into a linguistic black hole of self referential meaninglessness

 

I am not quite sure what that means exactly, but it certainly seems meaningless to me!

[Outrider]

At times when we end up in the talk of not living in the same dimensions, I am reminded of the novella described in the link below. And yet notionally in that, it seems the more dimensions one is 'in' then the more complex one's knowledge is. As Outrider says, I think once we talk about concepts such as existence, which are definitionally time infused, being outside time we have fallen into a linguistic black hole of self referential meaninglessness

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland

Great book, one of the first I bought on my Kindle.

This is one of the areas where theology starts to approach literal meaningless - the ignostic arguments start to have more of a bearing the deeper into the concept of gods you get.

O.

[Andy]

At times when we end up in the talk of not living in the same dimensions, I am reminded of the novella described in the link below. And yet notionally in that, it seems the more dimensions one is 'in' then the more complex one's knowledge is. As Outrider says, I think once we talk about concepts such as existence, which are definitionally time infused, being outside time we have fallen into a linguistic black hole of self referential meaninglessness

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland

Great book, one of the first I bought on my Kindle.

This is one of the areas where theology starts to approach literal meaningless - the ignostic arguments start to have more of a bearing the deeper into the concept of gods you get.

O.

It's when the use of logic even breaks down, not so that things become illogical, but alogical.

[Nearly Sane]

To be fair, it's not just theology but science and philosophy which break down, because of it being viewed by our time bound physical views, as already pointed out by Outrider.


If we are talking about intention or action or existence and remove the time dimension, we are creating mere gibberish.

[Nearly Sane]

Of course, there is the theological approach to this that because it is absurd or alogical it should be believed, but that as be the ultimate deepity

[Sebastian Toe]

At times when we end up in the talk of not living in the same dimensions, I am reminded of the novella described in the link below. And yet notionally in that, it seems the more dimensions one is 'in' then the more complex one's knowledge is. As Outrider says, I think once we talk about concepts such as existence, which are definitionally time infused, being outside time we have fallen into a linguistic black hole of self referential meaninglessness

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland

or watch the film ......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyuNrm4VK2w

[Outrider]

To be fair, it's not just theology but science and philosophy which break down, because of it being viewed by our time bound physical views, as already pointed out by Outrider.

Science starts to get around the linguistic limitations by resorting to maths, but Theology doesn't seem to have a corollary for that.

O.

[Nearly Sane]

My maths is not good enough to comment on whether it can be used.

[Outrider]

My maths is not good enough to comment on whether it can be used.

Nor mine, but I'm assured it can be used - part of the problem comes if you try to then translate your conclusions back into language

In a similar manner to the confusion that comes when pre-existing terms (like 'spin') are used in quantum matters, where the behaviours aren't directly analogous to macroscopic phenomena, the potential for confusion seems obvious, but in fact that's understating it.

When the phenomena you are describing aren't even analogous to real-life phenomena - can't even be considered phenomena, because phenomena requires time, for instance - then not just our language but the structure of our understanding that we try to represent with language is insufficient.

O.

[Rhiannon]

MMMM !!! Interesting?!?!
Could you elaborate, please?

N

I'm a pantheist, so to me the way the natural world operates is a part of divinity.

[trippymonkey]

I'm glad there's been a lighthearted set of responses on this topic but let's keep it, for now, to the idea that God DOES exist.

SOOO What the heck does He do with His time ?

It's as near to zero likelihood that there's anything there that could be doing anything, well there's no evidence that says otherwise.

Bit of a pointless question?

ippy

Only for YOU. BYEEEEEE

[Leonard James]

I'm glad there's been a lighthearted set of responses on this topic but let's keep it, for now, to the idea that God DOES exist.

SOOO What the heck does He do with His time ?

It's as near to zero likelihood that there's anything there that could be doing anything, well there's no evidence that says otherwise.

Bit of a pointless question?

ippy

Only for YOU. BYEEEEEE

No, it is pointless for me too, and I'm sure for many other people. 

[trippymonkey]

That's OK !!!
At least I won't condemn you for it ?!?!?!? 

[trippymonkey]

MMMM !!! Interesting?!?!
Could you elaborate, please?

N

I'm a pantheist, so to me the way the natural world operates is a part of divinity.

I lean heavily towards Hinduism which I think is pretty compatible with pantheism, no???
How can anything exist outside God? God is like some divine gardener that goes home for His tea & comes back when it's light & He can see ?!?!?!?!??

Doesn't make an ounce of sense to me, THAT kind of God.

Nick

[Leonard James]

Doesn't make an ounce of sense to me, THAT kind of God.

Nick

I don't think "God" makes sense to anybody, but for many he is a sort of friend and big daddy they can rely on.

[Hope]

He doesn't want to spend eternity with gullible people who believe things on faith. He wants sceptics, critical thinkers - people who don't just blindingly follow the dictates of false god characters by surrendering their moral agency.

That might well explain why some here, religious  and atheist alike, could well struggle to enter their respective heavens as a result of gullibly accepting explanations from websites as diverse as answersingenesis and whyevolutionistrue

[Shaker]

He doesn't want to spend eternity with gullible people who believe things on faith. He wants sceptics, critical thinkers - people who don't just blindingly follow the dictates of false god characters by surrendering their moral agency.

That might well explain why some here, religious  and atheist alike, could well struggle to enter their respective heavens as a result of gullibly accepting explanations from websites as diverse as answersingenesis and whyevolutionistrue

Websites consisting of hard scientific evidence like WEIT (created and maintained by an eminent geneticist and speciation expert) as compared to toytown la-la land nonsense such as AIG - where's the comparison here? Why are they mentioned in the same sentence?

[Andy]

He doesn't want to spend eternity with gullible people who believe things on faith. He wants sceptics, critical thinkers - people who don't just blindingly follow the dictates of false god characters by surrendering their moral agency.

That might well explain why some here, religious  and atheist alike, could well struggle to enter their respective heavens as a result of gullibly accepting explanations from websites as diverse as answersingenesis and whyevolutionistrue

 

[ippy]

I'm glad there's been a lighthearted set of responses on this topic but let's keep it, for now, to the idea that God DOES exist.

SOOO What the heck does He do with His time ?

It's as near to zero likelihood that there's anything there that could be doing anything, well there's no evidence that says otherwise.

Bit of a pointless question?

ippy

Only for YOU. BYEEEEEE

How come you let yourself become so indoctrinated with that religion nonsense, Trip,  monkey.

ippy

[trippymonkey]

LOL I'm NOT indoctrinated or I'd be going WIBBLE WIBBLE all over the place like certain here do regularly. Telling everyone what to do & anything THEY think or believe is WRONG WRONG WRONG cos it's not what I believe ?!!??!??!!?!??