Christianity basically is not about good vs evil but about living forever and p

[Alien]

The 'if' is, as usual, the oh-so-small but oh-so-important word in that sentence.

Yes, I agree. But if the reported sightings are true, then as far as I am concerned Jesus didn't die on the cross ... and it is totally impossible to produce evidence that he did.

What apart from the people who saw him nailed to a cross (having been flogged) and saw him die and saw him stabbed just to make sure and put in a known tomb which was empty a couple of days later?

As to him being alive, right as nine-pence, not just crawling around barely alive, we have about a dozen individuals and groups who met with and sometimes ate with Jesus over a 40 day period.

Sorry if the evidence is confusing your atheist mind, Leonard. A bit of cognitive dissonance can be good for you.

[floo]

We have no idea if what was written about Jesus many years after his death had any basis in fact. For all we know it could have been a fairy tale constructed by his followers. It is very strange that if Jesus was in reality the person he is said to be in the gospels, lots of independent historians didn't write about him.

[Hope]

(1)We have no idea if what was written about Jesus many years after his death had any basis in fact. (2) For all we know it could have been a fairy tale constructed by his followers. (3) It is very strange that if Jesus was in reality the person he is said to be in the gospels, lots of independent historians didn't write about him.

(1) But nor do we know that it didn't, Floo.  (2) Yet you have never been able to produce any evidence to support this suggestion, despite making it on numerous occasions on different forums and threads. The English 11th century leader Hereward the Wake has very little written about him but he is still regarded as having lived.  He is mentioned in 4 documents - the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles, the Domesday Book, Liber Eliensis and - most importantly - the Gesta Herewardi.  This last is thought to have been written between 1109 and 1131 by one of Hereward's brothers-in-arms - and therefore an eye-witness account.  Even if we discount everything that occurred before the Battle of Senlac Ridge, that's still 40-60 years after the events.  Why should taht be any more reliable than - say Mark's Gospel - which was likely written 30-40 years after the events it records and may have been written by someone who both experienced the events, and at the dictation of someone who was there.

[Leonard James]

The 'if' is, as usual, the oh-so-small but oh-so-important word in that sentence.

Yes, I agree. But if the reported sightings are true, then as far as I am concerned Jesus didn't die on the cross ... and it is totally impossible to produce evidence that he did.

What apart from the people who saw him nailed to a cross (having been flogged) and saw him die and saw him stabbed just to make sure and put in a known tomb which was empty a couple of days later?

As to him being alive, right as nine-pence, not just crawling around barely alive, we have about a dozen individuals and groups who met with and sometimes ate with Jesus over a 40 day period.

Sorry if the evidence is confusing your atheist mind, Leonard. A bit of cognitive dissonance can be good for you.

I'm afraid the crucifixion story is just that, a story, and we have no means of discerning it from fiction.

[ippy]

The 'if' is, as usual, the oh-so-small but oh-so-important word in that sentence.

Yes, I agree. But if the reported sightings are true, then as far as I am concerned Jesus didn't die on the cross ... and it is totally impossible to produce evidence that he did.

What apart from the people who saw him nailed to a cross (having been flogged) and saw him die and saw him stabbed just to make sure and put in a known tomb which was empty a couple of days later?

As to him being alive, right as nine-pence, not just crawling around barely alive, we have about a dozen individuals and groups who met with and sometimes ate with Jesus over a 40 day period.

Sorry if the evidence is confusing your atheist mind, Leonard. A bit of cognitive dissonance can be good for you.

I'm afraid the crucifixion story is just that, a story, and we have no means of discerning it from fiction.

Len, I didn't think Hereward the Wake was crucified, when did that happen, I must have missed it.

ippy

[Alien]

The 'if' is, as usual, the oh-so-small but oh-so-important word in that sentence.

Yes, I agree. But if the reported sightings are true, then as far as I am concerned Jesus didn't die on the cross ... and it is totally impossible to produce evidence that he did.

What apart from the people who saw him nailed to a cross (having been flogged) and saw him die and saw him stabbed just to make sure and put in a known tomb which was empty a couple of days later?

As to him being alive, right as nine-pence, not just crawling around barely alive, we have about a dozen individuals and groups who met with and sometimes ate with Jesus over a 40 day period.

Sorry if the evidence is confusing your atheist mind, Leonard. A bit of cognitive dissonance can be good for you.

I'm afraid the crucifixion story is just that, a story, and we have no means of discerning it from fiction.

Come on, Leonard. A big boy like you can't tell?

[Shaker]

(1)We have no idea if what was written about Jesus many years after his death had any basis in fact.

(1) But nor do we know that it didn't, Floo.

No day would be complete without Hope's beloved appeal to ignorance. I can eat my supper and have a glass or two of El Plonko Collapso 2013 tonight safe in the knowledge that the planet will keep on turning, the sun will rise in the morning, David Cameron will still be a fat-faced arse and Hoppity will still think that the lack of decisive evidence against something is sufficient reason to take it seriously.

Life is good. Or at the very least, incredibly predictable in some regards.

[Leonard James]

Come on, Leonard. A big boy like you can't tell?

No, and nor can anybody else ... but my belief is that it has no basis in fact.

[Alien]

Come on, Leonard. A big boy like you can't tell?

No, and nor can anybody else ... but my belief is that it has no basis in fact.

Your belief? I dunno, you atheists, eh?

[Spud]

If there has been conclusive proof of this god/Jesus thing, the coming back to life etc, how come the whole of the worlds not inconsiderable amount media networking hasn't produced this revelation of facts before us and in a way that would be simply understandable for all to appreciate?

Perhaps I've missed this world shattering event, I don't think I have; if this conclusive evidence of the supernatural side of this Jesus bloke hasn't been revealed to the world yet, why would that be?

ippy

Surely Jesus wouldn't have disappeared up to heaven so quickly if he had really resurrected. Why isn't he still around today in the flesh, instead of the imagination?

This is answered in John 16 and Acts 2

[ippy]

If there has been conclusive proof of this god/Jesus thing, the coming back to life etc, how come the whole of the worlds not inconsiderable amount media networking hasn't produced this revelation of facts before us and in a way that would be simply understandable for all to appreciate?

Perhaps I've missed this world shattering event, I don't think I have; if this conclusive evidence of the supernatural side of this Jesus bloke hasn't been revealed to the world yet, why would that be?

ippy

Surely Jesus wouldn't have disappeared up to heaven so quickly if he had really resurrected. Why isn't he still around today in the flesh, instead of the imagination?

This is answered in John 16 and Acts 2

So the evidence is in the same book that cannot supply any evidence that would confirm there is any substance in the supernatural, mythical or magical parts of itself.

I see, thanks for telling me where? That really makes sense?

ippy

[ippy]

If there has been conclusive proof of this god/Jesus thing, the coming back to life etc, how come the whole of the worlds not inconsiderable amount media networking hasn't produced this revelation of facts before us and in a way that would be simply understandable for all to appreciate?

Because there's no such proof, ipster. At all 

Perhaps I've missed this world shattering event, I don't think I have; if this conclusive evidence of the supernatural side of this Jesus bloke hasn't been revealed to the world yet, why would that be?

ippy

Well, I think I can help you there ... 

Had a look back Shakes at the bit where I wrote:

"If there has been conclusive proof of this god/Jesus thing, the coming back to life etc, how come the whole of the worlds not inconsiderable amount media networking hasn't produced this revelation of facts before us and in a way that would be simply understandable for all to appreciate"?

"Perhaps I've missed this world shattering event, I don't think I have; if this conclusive evidence of the supernatural side of this Jesus bloke hasn't been revealed to the world yet, why would that be"?

Irony, mainly directed in the direction of religios, no you're right they are unable to supply any evidence, because of just as you say.

ippy

 

[jeremyp]

What apart from the people who saw him nailed to a cross (having been flogged) and saw him die and saw him stabbed just to make sure and put in a known tomb which was empty a couple of days later?

What people?

The gospels are not historically reliable — maybe even wholesale fiction — and you ignoring that fact will not stop it from being true.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

What apart from the people who saw him nailed to a cross (having been flogged) and saw him die and saw him stabbed just to make sure and put in a known tomb which was empty a couple of days later?

What people?

The gospels are not historically reliable — maybe even wholesale fiction — and you ignoring that fact will not stop it from being true.

Fact Jeremy.....or your wishful thinking?

[jeremyp]

We have no idea if what was written about Jesus many years after his death had any basis in fact. For all we know it could have been a fairy tale constructed by his followers. It is very strange that if Jesus was in reality the person he is said to be in the gospels, lots of independent historians didn't write about him.

Actually I think we do have an idea.  The evidence suggests that the gospels are pretty much fiction.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

We have no idea if what was written about Jesus many years after his death had any basis in fact. For all we know it could have been a fairy tale constructed by his followers. It is very strange that if Jesus was in reality the person he is said to be in the gospels, lots of independent historians didn't write about him.

Actually I think we do have an idea.  The evidence suggests that the gospels are pretty much fiction.

Yes Jezzer. Provide the evidence for that.

[floo]

We have no idea if what was written about Jesus many years after his death had any basis in fact. For all we know it could have been a fairy tale constructed by his followers. It is very strange that if Jesus was in reality the person he is said to be in the gospels, lots of independent historians didn't write about him.

Actually I think we do have an idea.  The evidence suggests that the gospels are pretty much fiction.

Yes Jezzer. Provide the evidence for that.

As has been said many times, it is people who claim the less than credible to be true who have to provide the evidence, which they always fail to do!

[jeremyp]

What apart from the people who saw him nailed to a cross (having been flogged) and saw him die and saw him stabbed just to make sure and put in a known tomb which was empty a couple of days later?

What people?

The gospels are not historically reliable — maybe even wholesale fiction — and you ignoring that fact will not stop it from being true.

Fact Jeremy.....or your wishful thinking?

Fact.

[jeremyp]

We have no idea if what was written about Jesus many years after his death had any basis in fact. For all we know it could have been a fairy tale constructed by his followers. It is very strange that if Jesus was in reality the person he is said to be in the gospels, lots of independent historians didn't write about him.

Actually I think we do have an idea.  The evidence suggests that the gospels are pretty much fiction.

Yes Jezzer. Provide the evidence for that.

I have done on many previous occasions on this board and elsewhere.

[Hope]

I have done on many previous occasions on this board and elsewhere.

jeremy, you have provided evidence that you regard as valid, but as far as I am aware, Jim and others have rather knobbled it by showing that it is invalid.  Do you have any rather more robust evidence?

[Gordon]

I have done on many previous occasions on this board and elsewhere.

jeremy, you have provided evidence that you regard as valid, but as far as I am aware, Jim and others have rather knobbled it by showing that it is invalid.  Do you have any rather more robust evidence?

When and how?

[Hope]

When and how?

I'll leave jeremy to give times and dates to support his claim to have posted valid evidence.  Regarding the invalid evidence, most of Jim's responses to jeremy on this kind of topic show that his 'evidence' is less than robust.

[Gordon]

When and how?

Well, I'll leave you to 1) hunt out the examples that jeremy claims to have postd, and then 2) follow the trails that come from those.

I'm interested in what you claim was posted by Jim and others that you say you have an awareness of and that you also say 'knobbled' other claims - I don't recall this at all, so perhaps you should provide some details the rebuttal(s) that were involved: after all it may be that these rebuttals aren't quite as convincing as you imply.   

[jeremyp]

I have done on many previous occasions on this board and elsewhere.

jeremy, you have provided evidence that you regard as valid, but as far as I am aware, Jim and others have rather knobbled it by showing that it is invalid.  Do you have any rather more robust evidence?

Yes.  I have provided it on this board and elsewhere on many occasions.

[Hope]

Yes.  I have provided it on this board and elsewhere on many occasions.

Perhaps you would care to provide times and dates, or thread titles and post numbers of such 'evidence'.