"Atheism is a world view"

[Andy]

BS. Weak atheism is still a belief,

I have not seen any evidence to demonstrate to me that fairies exist. But I don't know for sure that they don't. Without omniscience my position can only be one of belief based on the evidence or lack there of.

I don't know how many blades of grass there are on my lawn. Considering you've gone after a position where non-belief isn't an option, it follows that I believe the total number is odd and that the total number is even... oops, contradiction overload!

[Nearly Sane]

I do not believe there are no gods, I have a lack of belief in any gods.

[wigginhall]

So many theists want to misrepresent others.   Why?  Is it an elaborate straw man, or some kind of gotcha?

[Gordon]

BS. Weak atheism is still a belief,

No it isn't

I have not seen any evidence to demonstrate to me that fairies Gods exist. But I don't know for sure that they don't. Without omniscience my position can only be one of belief based on the evidence or lack there of.

Fify

exactly! How ironic

Not really - see my modified post. My keyboard is acting up for some reason and I'm having to use the on-screen one: I hit 'Post' before I was ready (twice in fact).

[Shaker]

BS. Weak atheism is still a belief

No - the absence of one.

By your "logic" an empty milk bottle has some milk in it

I have not seen any evidence to demonstrate to me that fairies exist. But I don't know for sure that they don't. Without omniscience my position can only be one of belief based on the evidence or lack there of.

Therefore you lack a belief in fairies.

[Shaker]

I thought that NS's example of not being a Marxist is very good. 

I like the word 'lack'.   If you lack a belief in God, that cannot be considered a 'world-view'.   For example, an atheist need not be a materialist.  I believe that there are some who are dualists, and it is conceivable that an atheist could believe in the soul or the afterlife.

This is true of at least two philosophers I'm aware of - J. M. E. MacTaggart and C. J. Ducasse.

[Nearly Sane]

It's the whole world view thing I find perplexing. Why bother with the atheism which is at most a tiny part of my thoughts. My heuristic approach to life is much closer to Gonzo than it is Be Rational and Gonzo's is closer to mine than his is to TW.


I once though I had a world view but it was the co-codamol, whisky and insomnia talking.

[2Corrie]

I do not believe there are no gods, I have a lack of belief in any gods.

So by definition you are open to the possibility and are therefore really an agnostic - thanks for the honesty.

[Shaker]

So many theists want to misrepresent others.   Why?  Is it an elaborate straw man, or some kind of gotcha?

I don't know for sure why but I can hazard a couple of educated guesses.

One is that if your procedural method for viewing the world relies on belief as heavily as does theism, the idea that something (like atheism) is simply the absence of a belief (and that belief in particular) simply may not compute.

Another is that it's a sort of tu quoque - if I have a worldview, I'm bloody well going to insist that you have one as well.

[Shaker]

I do not believe there are no gods, I have a lack of belief in any gods.

So by definition you are open to the possibility and are therefore really an agnostic - thanks for the honesty.

I can't believe we're into Philosophy of Religion 101 again ...

Atheism and agnosticism are different things. They're not incompatible; it's not either/or - quite the opposite.

[Nearly Sane]

I do not believe there are no gods, I have a lack of belief in any gods.

So by definition you are open to the possibility and are therefore really an agnostic - thanks for the honesty.

No, actually I am not. I am ignostic based on the lack of any logical coherent or meaningful definition of gods but I could either be an ignostic atheist or indeed an agnostic atheist. Agnostic is not a separate category in a continuum between theist and atheist.

[Andy]

So many theists want to misrepresent others.   Why?  Is it an elaborate straw man, or some kind of gotcha?

It's an attempt to put us all on one playing field - a way of them saying their position has as much credit (or none) as ours. You know, we've all got a burden of proof on this issue as you can see Vlad doing all the time. It's just one big game of tu quoque.

[Alien]

BS. Weak atheism is still a belief

No - the absence of one.
...

It can be, e.g. the belief that there is insufficient evidence to correctly come to a belief in the existence of god(s).

Not sure where this is getting us all though.

[wigginhall]

It's the whole world view thing I find perplexing. Why bother with the atheism which is at most a tiny part of my thoughts. My heuristic approach to life is much closer to Gonzo than it is Be Rational and Gonzo's is closer to mine than his is to TW.


I once though I had a world view but it was the co-codamol, whisky and insomnia talking.

Yeah, 'world-view' seems nonsensical to me.   I don't have a coherent view of reality, oh dear, what a shame.  If you want consistency, then Angel Delight is for you!

[Andy]

So many theists want to misrepresent others.   Why?  Is it an elaborate straw man, or some kind of gotcha?

I don't know for sure why but I can hazard a couple of educated guesses.

One is that if your procedural method for viewing the world relies on belief as heavily as does theism, the idea that something (like atheism) is simply the absence of a belief (and that belief in particular) simply may not compute.

Another is that it's a sort of tu quoque - if I have a worldview, I'm bloody well going to insist that you have one as well.

Beat me to it.

[Alien]

I do not believe there are no gods, I have a lack of belief in any gods.

So by definition you are open to the possibility and are therefore really an agnostic - thanks for the honesty.

No, actually I am not. I am ignostic based on the lack of any logical coherent or meaningful definition of gods but I could either be an ignostic atheist or indeed an agnostic atheist. Agnostic is not a separate category

More accurately you are "ignostic based on your belief in the lack of any logical, coherent or meaningful definition of gods."

[wigginhall]

So many theists want to misrepresent others.   Why?  Is it an elaborate straw man, or some kind of gotcha?

It's an attempt to put us all on one playing field - a way of them saying their position has as much credit (or none) as ours. You know, we've all got a burden of proof on this issue as you can see Vlad doing all the time. It's just one big game of tu quoque.

Yes, I think you and Shaker have nailed this.  It's kind of 'I have beliefs which are unsubstantiated, but so have you, nah nah nah nah nah'. 

[Gordon]

OK, as an atheist you believe that there is no sentient being that has created 'life, the universe and everything' ...

Nope - confusing belief with lack of belief again there Hope.

Well either you know that there is no sentient being, or you believe that there is no sentient being, which is it?

Neither of the above.

please explain how your position does not fit into one of the above then, are you omniscient!

1. I don't know (as in having knowledge) that there is no 'sentient being' (I'm assuming you mean a 'creator God' as envisged by Christians).

2. So far all the explanations I've encountered of 'God', such as from Christians here, are meaningless to the extent of not being amenable to rational review: therefore, I don't have beliefs about what has no discernible meaning.

3. I may well be omniscient, but I don't know for sure that I am (Mrs G says not) 

[wigginhall]

2Corrie illustrates another trait of some theists - a kind of Procrustean bed, into which you will be fitted, by stretching you, or by cutting off your arms and legs.   Your actual statements about your beliefs or lack of, are hence ignored or misrepresented, in favour of the theist's version of them, which aims to be dishonest.

[Shaker]

2Corrie illustrates another trait of some theists - a kind of Procrustean bed, into which you will be fitted, by stretching you, or by cutting off your arms and legs.   Your actual statements about your beliefs or lack of, are hence ignored or misrepresented, in favour of the theist's version of them, which aims to be dishonest.

Ah yes. Very familiar with that tactic, sorry to say.

And full marks for the adroit use of Procrustean bed, which will no doubt have a few people scurrying off to Google 

[wigginhall]

Thank you, sir!

[Andy]

I think it's safe to say that all atheist contributors to this thread thus far just lack a belief in a god and don't subscribe to the belief that there is no god. If there are those who subscribe to it, then I'm yet to hear it. I expect this to be clear enough now. However, what I don't expect is for any real notice of this fact to be taken.

[wigginhall]

I think it's safe to say that all atheist contributors to this thread thus far just lack a belief in a god and don't subscribe to the belief that there is no god. If there are those who subscribe to it, then I'm yet to hear it. I expect this to be clear enough now. However, what I don't expect is for any real notice of this fact to be taken.

Some theists are dishonest, and don't respect other people's ideas.  As to why this is, dunno. 

[Andy]

I think it's safe to say that all atheist contributors to this thread thus far just lack a belief in a god and don't subscribe to the belief that there is no god. If there are those who subscribe to it, then I'm yet to hear it. I expect this to be clear enough now. However, what I don't expect is for any real notice of this fact to be taken.

Some theists are dishonest, and don't respect other people's ideas.  As to why this is, dunno.

We'd be hard pressed to find anyone who hasn't been, but that's by the bye when it's so brazen in a medium where they can be easily exposed. It's not so much the dishonesty, but the continuation of it as if it's something to be proud of. I don't get it.

[wigginhall]

Andy

Yes, you are right.  We are all dishonest, intermittently, but this is systematic.   I think it's partly a kind of narcissism, that is, a refusal to actually perceive other people, with different views, very ironic on the part of Christians (love your neighbour, and so on).  Or, love your neighbour, but ignore his ideas, and try to replace them by your own. 

And, as you say, none of this will make the slightest difference.