YouTube

[ippy]

I couldn't get to sleep last night so I did a bit of YouTube instead of worrying about Alan, Spud, Hope, Sass or TWit, no I don't worry about Vlad.

Anyway I found this debate that I'm sure some of you will have seen It looks recent but who knows it might be old hat.

It was a debate sponsored by 'Intelligence Squared' and is titled 'Between you and I the English Language is Going to the Dogs', John Humphries was one of the debaters; it's a debate that I found quite enjoyable.

About the only thing I think is bad practice compared to my own younger days is the now normal putting yourself first when listing a group of people, I was always told "Fred, Burt, Amy, Sid and I, or myself", when listing people: it's like chalk screeching on a blackboard to me when I hear, "Me and Fred, etc etc".       
(There's no significance with the names I've used, they're just the first names that came to mind).

I hope the above will becomes more relevant to you, when or if you have watched and listened to this debate.

ippy

   

[jeremyp]

The rule is quite simple. If you imagine the singular version of the sentence and you would use “I”, then the group also uses “I”. If the singular version uses “me” then so does the group. For example “me and Fred went down the pub” is clearly wrong because, if Fred wasn't with you, you would say “I went down the pub”. However, “Bob bought drinks for Fred and I” is equally wrong because if Fred wasn't with you, you would say “Bob bought a drink for me”.

[ippy]

The rule is quite simple. If you imagine the singular version of the sentence and you would use “I”, then the group also uses “I”. If the singular version uses “me” then so does the group. For example “me and Fred went down the pub” is clearly wrong because, if Fred wasn't with you, you would say “I went down the pub”. However, “Bob bought drinks for Fred and I” is equally wrong because if Fred wasn't with you, you would say “Bob bought a drink for me”.

Watch and listen to the YouTube debate.

ippy

[Alien]

The rule is quite simple. If you imagine the singular version of the sentence and you would use “I”, then the group also uses “I”. If the singular version uses “me” then so does the group. For example “me and Fred went down the pub” is clearly wrong because, if Fred wasn't with you, you would say “I went down the pub”. However, “Bob bought drinks for Fred and I” is equally wrong because if Fred wasn't with you, you would say “Bob bought a drink for me”.

Watch and listen to the YouTube debate.

ippy

Do you have a link? Is it about Christians and their grammar?

[Alien]

The rule is quite simple. If you imagine the singular version of the sentence and you would use “I”, then the group also uses “I”. If the singular version uses “me” then so does the group. For example “me and Fred went down the pub” is clearly wrong because, if Fred wasn't with you, you would say “I went down the pub”. However, “Bob bought drinks for Fred and I” is equally wrong because if Fred wasn't with you, you would say “Bob bought a drink for me”.

Agreed.

[ippy]

The rule is quite simple. If you imagine the singular version of the sentence and you would use “I”, then the group also uses “I”. If the singular version uses “me” then so does the group. For example “me and Fred went down the pub” is clearly wrong because, if Fred wasn't with you, you would say “I went down the pub”. However, “Bob bought drinks for Fred and I” is equally wrong because if Fred wasn't with you, you would say “Bob bought a drink for me”.

Watch and listen to the YouTube debate.

ippy

Do you have a link? Is it about Christians and their grammar?

No and I think this is on the christian topic by most likely my mistake.

I don't have a link but I found it easily by typing in: 'Intelligence Squared, Between You and I The English Language is Going to the Dogs', into the YouTube search, it comes up first time.

It's presented in good humor and informative at the same time, I found it very enjoyable.

ippy 




 

[ippy]

The rule is quite simple. If you imagine the singular version of the sentence and you would use “I”, then the group also uses “I”. If the singular version uses “me” then so does the group. For example “me and Fred went down the pub” is clearly wrong because, if Fred wasn't with you, you would say “I went down the pub”. However, “Bob bought drinks for Fred and I” is equally wrong because if Fred wasn't with you, you would say “Bob bought a drink for me”.

Agreed.

I'm certain you're a 100% right; all I can say it was dinged into my head from as far back as I can remember that it's impolite to put yourself first in this area. 

ippy

[Harrowby Hall]

The rule is quite simple. If you imagine the singular version of the sentence and you would use “I”, then the group also uses “I”. If the singular version uses “me” then so does the group. For example “me and Fred went down the pub” is clearly wrong because, if Fred wasn't with you, you would say “I went down the pub”. However, “Bob bought drinks for Fred and I” is equally wrong because if Fred wasn't with you, you would say “Bob bought a drink for me”.

Simple? It is grammatically misleading. It has nothing to do with who is with whom.

The pronoun I is the subject of the sentence. The pronoun me is the object of the sentence. So if you are the person doing something, you are the subject. If you are the person to whom something is being done you are the object.

The only exception to this is when using the verb to be which does not take an object but a complement - which is identical to the subject. Thus the answer to the question "Who is there?" should be "It is I."

But none of us say that.

[trippymonkey]

I hate the word GUYS being used even when addressing only girls. A guy is MALE, guys .....and gals too !!!

Until I saw some tv progs going back over 10 years I thought this use was pretty recent. It's NOT ?!?!!?? 

Nick

[floo]

I hate the word GUYS being used even when addressing only girls. A guy is MALE, guys .....and gals too !!!

Until I saw some tv progs going back over 10 years I thought this use was pretty recent. It's NOT ?!?!!?? 

Nick

I don't mind the expression guys when referring to the female of the species. However, for some reason I dislike being called 'mate', not logical but there it is!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I hate the word GUYS being used even when addressing only girls. A guy is MALE, guys .....and gals too !!!

Until I saw some tv progs going back over 10 years I thought this use was pretty recent. It's NOT ?!?!!?? 

Nick

I don't mind the expression guys when referring to the female of the species. However, for some reason I dislike being called 'mate', not logical but there it is!

Do you have any evidence on which to base your dislike, mate?

[ippy]

The rule is quite simple. If you imagine the singular version of the sentence and you would use “I”, then the group also uses “I”. If the singular version uses “me” then so does the group. For example “me and Fred went down the pub” is clearly wrong because, if Fred wasn't with you, you would say “I went down the pub”. However, “Bob bought drinks for Fred and I” is equally wrong because if Fred wasn't with you, you would say “Bob bought a drink for me”.

Simple? It is grammatically misleading. It has nothing to do with who is with whom.

The pronoun I is the subject of the sentence. The pronoun me is the object of the sentence. So if you are the person doing something, you are the subject. If you are the person to whom something is being done you are the object.

The only exception to this is when using the verb to be which does not take an object but a complement - which is identical to the subject. Thus the answer to the question "Who is there?" should be "It is I."

But none of us say that.

This preference for 'Fred, Burt, Ernie and I' usage is 'wot i wus brung up wiv', seriously, it doesn't prompt me into wearing black or anything like that and I'm sure you are grammatically correct, I think it's also bad mannered to put yourself first; it's like a squeaky chalk on a blackboard to me every time I hear it.

Do have a listen to this YouTube debate I would guess it's right up your street, even I enjoyed it

ippy

 

[Alien]

The rule is quite simple. If you imagine the singular version of the sentence and you would use “I”, then the group also uses “I”. If the singular version uses “me” then so does the group. For example “me and Fred went down the pub” is clearly wrong because, if Fred wasn't with you, you would say “I went down the pub”. However, “Bob bought drinks for Fred and I” is equally wrong because if Fred wasn't with you, you would say “Bob bought a drink for me”.

Simple? It is grammatically misleading. It has nothing to do with who is with whom.

The pronoun I is the subject of the sentence. The pronoun me is the object of the sentence. So if you are the person doing something, you are the subject. If you are the person to whom something is being done you are the object.

The only exception to this is when using the verb to be which does not take an object but a complement - which is identical to the subject. Thus the answer to the question "Who is there?" should be "It is I."

But none of us say that.

Being a grammar Nazi, but also a chicken, I would say, "I am."

[Sebastian Toe]

Thus the answer to the question "Who is there?" should be "It is I."

....I thought the correct answer was Dishes!
Dishes who?
Dishes the police, come out with your hands above your head!


Coat please.....

[ippy]

The rule is quite simple. If you imagine the singular version of the sentence and you would use “I”, then the group also uses “I”. If the singular version uses “me” then so does the group. For example “me and Fred went down the pub” is clearly wrong because, if Fred wasn't with you, you would say “I went down the pub”. However, “Bob bought drinks for Fred and I” is equally wrong because if Fred wasn't with you, you would say “Bob bought a drink for me”.

Simple? It is grammatically misleading. It has nothing to do with who is with whom.

The pronoun I is the subject of the sentence. The pronoun me is the object of the sentence. So if you are the person doing something, you are the subject. If you are the person to whom something is being done you are the object.

The only exception to this is when using the verb to be which does not take an object but a complement - which is identical to the subject. Thus the answer to the question "Who is there?" should be "It is I."

But none of us say that.

Being a grammar Nazi, but also a chicken, I would say, "I am."

When I'm not sure who it is that has just entered the house I have often called out is that you, thinking it might be my wife, and then someone that sounds very much like my wife, has called out no!

Life can be so difficult at times.

ippy