Volkswagen facing multiple US probes

[Bubbles]

.

[Rhiannon]

I'm thinking it will bugger up their plans to buy Red Bull F1. Ferrari will supply Red Bull in the short term now that they've dumped Renault - or Renault have dumped them, possibly to buy out Lotus - but if Red Bull start beating Ferrari regularly that deal will be pulled.

So, Red Bull are probably looking at years of being behind in F1, or they will pull out altogether. I can't believe VW can afford to buy into F1 now, not unless they already have some kind of binding deal in place.

[Harrowby Hall]

I think that before we pour all our anger and disdain over VW we should wait and see what else emerges from the woodwork. I will not be surprised if we learn that a number of other motor manufacturers have been at it as well.

[Rhiannon]

My slight worry is that I have a much-loved, modern diesel and I'm concerned it will be forced off the road. I was hoping not to change it for at least ten years.

[Rhiannon]

My diesel's a Skoda. I think the writing is on the wall for our cars, sadly.

[Harrowby Hall]

My diesel's a Skoda. I think the writing is on the wall for our cars, sadly.

Don't panic, Mr Mainwearing!

I don't think that this is a matter of pollution. I don't think that there is anything seriously wrong with the engine. It is a matter of misrepresentation - telling lies to make the engine appear better than it is.

[Udayana]

My diesel's a Skoda. I think the writing is on the wall for our cars, sadly.

Don't panic, Mr Mainwearing!

I don't think that this is a matter of pollution. I don't think that there is anything seriously wrong with the engine. It is a matter of misrepresentation - telling lies to make the engine appear better than it is.

Surely it is a matter of pollution, as cars in Europe are putting out 10 to 40 times the expected amount of NOx emissions, causing between 20,000 to 30,000* deaths each year in the UK alone?
 
* Total estimated deaths due to NOx emissions. Possibly 12000 would be saved by ensuring vehicles meet the emissions standards.

[Rhiannon]

My diesel's a Skoda. I think the writing is on the wall for our cars, sadly.

Don't panic, Mr Mainwearing!

I don't think that this is a matter of pollution. I don't think that there is anything seriously wrong with the engine. It is a matter of misrepresentation - telling lies to make the engine appear better than it is.

Yes, I got that. I was just looking at the bigger picture - I think emissions targets will force diesels off the road in the way that leaded petrol was banned. The RAC are also warning of a potential diesel shortage in the UK. 

[Rhiannon]

My diesel's a Skoda. I think the writing is on the wall for our cars, sadly.

Don't panic, Mr Mainwearing!

I don't think that this is a matter of pollution. I don't think that there is anything seriously wrong with the engine. It is a matter of misrepresentation - telling lies to make the engine appear better than it is.

Surely it is a matter of pollution, as cars in Europe are putting out 10 to 40 times the expected amount of NOx emissions, causing between 20,000 to 30,000 additional deaths each year in the UK alone?

I think this is right in terms of VW. If EU market cars are found to have the same issue they will need to compensate every car owner.

Hopefully Skoda haven't been pulling the same trick.

[Hope]

The good news might be that our testing system is different to the states, which might mean we won't have the same issues.

Unfortunately, Rose, the European (and hence British) testing system is nowhere near as stringent as the American one.

[Outrider]

The good news might be that our testing system is different to the states, which might mean we won't have the same issues.

Unfortunately, Rose, the European (and hence British) testing system is nowhere near as stringent as the American one.

I was under the impression that the American standards were, at least in theory, more demanding, but that their actual testing regimes and protocols were not - is that right, do you know?

O.

[wigginhall]

Some of these figures are scary, for example, nearly 6000 deaths in London in 2010, from NO2.   Is this all because of diesel? 

[Rhiannon]

Mostly from freight, I would think. Car engines aren't the worst offenders.

[ippy]

Mostly from freight, I would think. Car engines aren't the worst offenders.

I read your post a bit to quickly and read freight as fright but both are right anywhere on the roads in the London area.

I crossed on the green for pedestrians in Grays Inn road a little while back, was struck by a female cyclist and she told me off for getting in her way? Fright.

ippy

[Jack Knave]

Schadenfreude!!!

The Germans are suppose to be ultra efficient and reliable. They have been found cheating. This can only ruin their reputation. It is also a sign that the venal, flagitious clique elites have tainted even the better companies.

[Harrowby Hall]

Surely it is a matter of pollution, as cars in Europe are putting out 10 to 40 times the expected amount of NOx emissions, causing between 20,000 to 30,000* deaths each year in the UK alone?
 

No. VW is being investigated for fraud and deception. For private cars in the USA, owning a diesel engined vehicle is a rarity. The impact of private diesels on pollution is microscopic.

The Germans are suppose to be ultra efficient and reliable. They have been found cheating. This can only ruin their reputation. It is also a sign that the venal, flagitious clique elites have tainted even the better companies.

I think that we are being rather quick to condemn VW. We don't know yet whether this affair is the result of corporate decision making, or a single individual at a lower than corporate level having a good idea, or an outside contractor selling inappropriate software. I guess the CEO is going because this happened on his watch and he is prepared to be a scapegoat.

I'm thinking of buying a new car. I have not owned a gasoline car for the last 30 years. This might turn out to be something of benefit to me.

[Rhiannon]

Someone actually said this signals the end of capitalism.

[Shaker]

Someone actually said this signals the end of capitalism.

I wish they were right, but they won't be.

[jeremyp]

My slight worry is that I have a much-loved, modern diesel and I'm concerned it will be forced off the road. I was hoping not to change it for at least ten years.

You'll be fine as long as they didn't do the same thing in the EU.

[jeremyp]

Someone actually said this signals the end of capitalism.

I wish they were right, but they won't be.

The reason they won't be is that there isn't a known alternative that actually works.

[jeremyp]

Some of these figures are scary, for example, nearly 6000 deaths in London in 2010, from NO2.   Is this all because of diesel?

I would ask how they have come up with that figure. If 30,000 people die just from NOx emissions each year in the UK, that's more than 5% of all deaths (about the same as lung cancer). That's a figure I do not believe is credible.

[jeremyp]

From Rose's article

Martin Leach, a consultant at Magma and a former head of Ford Europe, told the BBC that the problem is unlikely to emerge elsewhere.

"I don't think it will extend to other manufacturers. Volkswagen has really engaged to try to beat standards in the US. I would be surprised if it spreads outside the US as Europe's testing standards were more advanced and therefore more difficult to cheat than the US."

European tests are more sophisticated than the US ones, even if the standards aren't as strict, so VW probably aren't doing it in Europe.

Other manufacturers probably aren't doing it at all, apparently.

If I was running the EPA, having discovered the VW thing, I would already be looking at everybody else.

[ippy]

Someone actually said this signals the end of capitalism.

I wish they were right, but they won't be.

Ditto.

ippy

[ippy]

Someone actually said this signals the end of capitalism.

I wish they were right, but they won't be.

The reason they won't be is that there isn't a known alternative that actually works.

I'll go along with you there J P.

ippy

[Outrider]

Some of these figures are scary, for example, nearly 6000 deaths in London in 2010, from NO2.   Is this all because of diesel?

I would ask how they have come up with that figure. If 30,000 people die just from NOx emissions each year in the UK, that's more than 5% of all deaths (about the same as lung cancer). That's a figure I do not believe is credible.

I suspect that what they've done is assign an alarmist-induced proportion of lung cancer deaths to the influence of NOx, and similarly a proportion of asthma deaths and a number of other cancers and lumped them in as a guesstimate to ensure front-page coverage on the Daily Fail and other panic-attack comics.

O.