Searching for God (2)

[Owlswing]

Part of my belief as a Pagan is that the deities, female and male, are immanent - present in all things.

Once again, wlking along Hounslow High Street I see a group of Christians whose 'stand', for want of a better word, is fronted with a banner asking "Have you found God? Have you found Jesus?"

To the second question my answer, if the question were put to me verbally, would be either that "I didn't know that he was lost" or that "he was hiding in the cupboard under the stairs playing chess with Harry Potter!"

To the first is a different matter. In my belief I do not need to find "God", as I believe that there is more than one and that a single deity of one sex or the other is not possible as without both sexes the deity is sterile.

Also I believe that to find my deities all I have to do is open my eyes and look around me at anything natural; or to look at just about anything as without the dieties humans would not be as creative as they are.

Maybe the question should be amended to ask "Have you found our God?" In which case my answer would be that I was brought up with him and ditched him at age 15.

But I cannot see the point of the question as some Christians, some on here, tell us that their God created everything so, surely, they could do the same as I and find their God just by opening their eyes and without the intercession of clerics or evangelicals.

I am not "attacking" Christian beliefs, I am asking for an explanation of something that I find inexplicable

[ippy]

Part of my belief as a Pagan is that the deities, female and male, are immanent - present in all things.

Once again, wlking along Hounslow High Street I see a group of Christians whose 'stand', for want of a better word, is fronted with a banner asking "Have you found God? Have you found Jesus?"

To the second question my answer, if the question were put to me verbally, would be either that "I didn't know that he was lost" or that "he was hiding in the cupboard under the stairs playing chess with Harry Potter!"

To the first is a different matter. In my belief I do not need to find "God", as I believe that there is more than one and that a single deity of one sex or the other is not possible as without both sexes the deity is sterile.

Also I believe that to find my deities all I have to do is open my eyes and look around me at anything natural; or to look at just about anything as without the dieties humans would not be as creative as they are.

Maybe the question should be amended to ask "Have you found our God?" In which case my answer would be that I was brought up with him and ditched him at age 15.

But I cannot see the point of the question as some Christians, some on here, tell us that their God created everything so, surely, they could do the same as I and find their God just by opening their eyes and without the intercession of clerics or evangelicals.

I am not "attacking" Christian beliefs, I am asking for an explanation of something that I find inexplicable

Christians, they're a funny lot, without a doubt, I can't see that paganism is all that sensible either?

You all, seems to me, believe in things that can't be substantiated.

I could dream up a few spurious beliefs if you like and what about the Star Wars lot now into Jedi.

ippy

[Hope]

To the first is a different matter. In my belief I do not need to find "God", as I believe that there is more than one and that a single deity of one sex or the other is not possible as without both sexes the deity is sterile.

Yet that is precisely what Pagans believe is the case, surely?  Aren't all your deities either male or female?  Unlike that, the Judeo-Christian God exhibits traits of both - hence the Jews having 144 names for God, half of which are feminine, half of which are masculine.  As for the Christian thinking, we here in the UK have the problem in that the gender-unmarked pronoun used to refer to God/Jesus in the early English translations of the Bible has become typically associated with the male gender (even though grammatically it remains non-specific regarding gender).

Also I believe that to find my deities all I have to do is open my eyes and look around me at anything natural; ...

Something that both Judeo-Christianity and Paganism share, by the way.  It's the second half of the paragraph that contains stuff that is different to Judeo-Christian thought.

But I cannot see the point of the question as some Christians, some on here, tell us that their God created everything so, surely, they could do the same as I and find their God just by opening their eyes and without the intercession of clerics or evangelicals.

One doesn't need any intervention from anyone to 'find' God, Matt.  Over the years, many have come to Christ by simply enjoying the world he created. 

I am not "attacking" Christian beliefs, I am asking for an explanation of something that I find inexplicable

Matt, I think many Christians would also find what you seem to be asking for an explanation of to be inexplicable - not least because thay do not understand Chistianity in the same way and others here seem to.

[Owlswing]

Part of my belief as a Pagan is that the deities, female and male, are immanent - present in all things.

Once again, wlking along Hounslow High Street I see a group of Christians whose 'stand', for want of a better word, is fronted with a banner asking "Have you found God? Have you found Jesus?"

To the second question my answer, if the question were put to me verbally, would be either that "I didn't know that he was lost" or that "he was hiding in the cupboard under the stairs playing chess with Harry Potter!"

To the first is a different matter. In my belief I do not need to find "God", as I believe that there is more than one and that a single deity of one sex or the other is not possible as without both sexes the deity is sterile.

Also I believe that to find my deities all I have to do is open my eyes and look around me at anything natural; or to look at just about anything as without the dieties humans would not be as creative as they are.

Maybe the question should be amended to ask "Have you found our God?" In which case my answer would be that I was brought up with him and ditched him at age 15.

But I cannot see the point of the question as some Christians, some on here, tell us that their God created everything so, surely, they could do the same as I and find their God just by opening their eyes and without the intercession of clerics or evangelicals.

I am not "attacking" Christian beliefs, I am asking for an explanation of something that I find inexplicable

Christians, they're a funny lot, without a doubt, I can't see that paganism is all that sensible either?

You all, seems to me, believe in things that can't be substantiated.

I could dream up a few spurious beliefs if you like and what about the Star Wars lot now into Jedi.

ippy

Ippy

Go ahead, create your own religion but do not belittle mine.

I have said more times than I care to think about, and each time it falls on the deaf ears of those who are of other religions or none, and I will say it again:

My religion is a BELIEF! MY belief! I will continue to believe that what I believe is the truth and until someone comes back from the dread (someone who I KNOW really is dead) and tells me that I am wrong I will continue in my belief in the Circle of Birth, Life, Death and Re-birth and the ancient deities of Paganism all the way back to 25,000BCE.

It works for me! I am not asking anyone else to believe what I believe, such proselytising is one of my pet hates about Christianity and Islam.

You want to believe in the Christian God or the Islamic God, with all their (what I see as) faults?

GO AHEAD! Please! All I am asking is that you give me the right to believe what I believe to be the truth.

[BeRational]

Part of my belief as a Pagan is that the deities, female and male, are immanent - present in all things.

Once again, wlking along Hounslow High Street I see a group of Christians whose 'stand', for want of a better word, is fronted with a banner asking "Have you found God? Have you found Jesus?"

To the second question my answer, if the question were put to me verbally, would be either that "I didn't know that he was lost" or that "he was hiding in the cupboard under the stairs playing chess with Harry Potter!"

To the first is a different matter. In my belief I do not need to find "God", as I believe that there is more than one and that a single deity of one sex or the other is not possible as without both sexes the deity is sterile.

Also I believe that to find my deities all I have to do is open my eyes and look around me at anything natural; or to look at just about anything as without the dieties humans would not be as creative as they are.

Maybe the question should be amended to ask "Have you found our God?" In which case my answer would be that I was brought up with him and ditched him at age 15.

But I cannot see the point of the question as some Christians, some on here, tell us that their God created everything so, surely, they could do the same as I and find their God just by opening their eyes and without the intercession of clerics or evangelicals.

I am not "attacking" Christian beliefs, I am asking for an explanation of something that I find inexplicable

Christians, they're a funny lot, without a doubt, I can't see that paganism is all that sensible either?

You all, seems to me, believe in things that can't be substantiated.

I could dream up a few spurious beliefs if you like and what about the Star Wars lot now into Jedi.

ippy

Ippy

Go ahead, create your own religion but do not belittle mine.

I have said more times than I care to think about, and each time it falls on the deaf ears of those who are of other religions or none, and I will say it again:

My religion is a BELIEF! MY belief! I will continue to believe that what I believe is the truth and until someone comes back from the dread (someone who I KNOW really is dead) and tells me that I am wrong I will continue in my belief in the Circle of Birth, Life, Death and Re-birth and the ancient deities of Paganism all the way back to 25,000BCE.

It works for me! I am not asking anyone else to believe what I believe, such proselytising is one of my pet hates about Christianity and Islam.

You want to believe in the Christian God or the Islamic God, with all their (what I see as) faults?

GO AHEAD! Please! All I am asking is that you give me the right to believe what I believe to be the truth.

This is where I am fine with you and your beliefs. You do not claim that are true for me.
These are personal beliefs that make you happy etc.

[jakswan]

Ippy

Go ahead, create your own religion but do not belittle mine.

I don't understand, to belittle is to dismiss, yet you later wrote 'I am not asking anyone else to believe what I believe'.

Sensing some inconsistency.

[Outrider]

Ippy

Go ahead, create your own religion but do not belittle mine.

I don't understand, to belittle is to dismiss, yet you later wrote 'I am not asking anyone else to believe what I believe'.

Sensing some inconsistency.

It's a kind of implicit agreement - he's had the decency to explain his views not to proselytise or convert, but just so that people might understand.

All he's asking in return is that you respect the spirit in which that's been done, and not be dismissive or mocking.

It really doesn't seem hard - you don't need to accept it as 'truth', he's not asking you to, so you don't need to go to any lengths to say so.

O.

[Owlswing]

To the first is a different matter. In my belief I do not need to find "God", as I believe that there is more than one and that a single deity of one sex or the other is not possible as without both sexes the deity is sterile.

Yet that is precisely what Pagans believe is the case, surely?  Aren't all your deities either male or female?

You, yet again, show your almost total ignorance of Pagan belief.

With the exception of Dianic Pagans, who are in a minority, who refuse to accept any concept of a male deity and whose membership is exclusively female, as well as feminist and/or lesbian, it is a tenet of Paganism, and I quote from ritual, (speaking of the male deity) ". . . for without him the Lady is nothing and without her he also is nothing."

 
Unlike that, the Judeo-Christian God exhibits traits of both - hence the Jews having 144 names for God, half of which are feminine, half of which are masculine.

You are here trying to tie together two entirely different things. Judeo-Christian and Christian - the Jews might have 144 nams for God, half of them female, but you are the one who, when it suits you rejects the Old Testament becasue it is Jewish and not Christian.

As for the Christian thinking, we here in the UK have the problem in that the gender-unmarked pronoun used to refer to God/Jesus in the early English translations of the Bible has become typically associated with the male gender (even though grammatically it remains non-specific regarding gender).

Which "gender-unmarked pronoun"?

Early English translations?

In whose grammar?

[Owlswing]

Part of my belief as a Pagan is that the deities, female and male, are immanent - present in all things.

Once again, wlking along Hounslow High Street I see a group of Christians whose 'stand', for want of a better word, is fronted with a banner asking "Have you found God? Have you found Jesus?"

To the second question my answer, if the question were put to me verbally, would be either that "I didn't know that he was lost" or that "he was hiding in the cupboard under the stairs playing chess with Harry Potter!"

To the first is a different matter. In my belief I do not need to find "God", as I believe that there is more than one and that a single deity of one sex or the other is not possible as without both sexes the deity is sterile.

Also I believe that to find my deities all I have to do is open my eyes and look around me at anything natural; or to look at just about anything as without the dieties humans would not be as creative as they are.

Maybe the question should be amended to ask "Have you found our God?" In which case my answer would be that I was brought up with him and ditched him at age 15.

But I cannot see the point of the question as some Christians, some on here, tell us that their God created everything so, surely, they could do the same as I and find their God just by opening their eyes and without the intercession of clerics or evangelicals.

I am not "attacking" Christian beliefs, I am asking for an explanation of something that I find inexplicable

Christians, they're a funny lot, without a doubt, I can't see that paganism is all that sensible either?

You all, seems to me, believe in things that can't be substantiated.

I could dream up a few spurious beliefs if you like and what about the Star Wars lot now into Jedi.

ippy

Ippy

Go ahead, create your own religion but do not belittle mine.

I have said more times than I care to think about, and each time it falls on the deaf ears of those who are of other religions or none, and I will say it again:

My religion is a BELIEF! MY belief! I will continue to believe that what I believe is the truth and until someone comes back from the dread (someone who I KNOW really is dead) and tells me that I am wrong I will continue in my belief in the Circle of Birth, Life, Death and Re-birth and the ancient deities of Paganism all the way back to 25,000BCE.

It works for me! I am not asking anyone else to believe what I believe, such proselytising is one of my pet hates about Christianity and Islam.

You want to believe in the Christian God or the Islamic God, with all their (what I see as) faults?

GO AHEAD! Please! All I am asking is that you give me the right to believe what I believe to be the truth.

This is where I am fine with you and your beliefs. You do not claim that are true for me.
These are personal beliefs that make you happy etc.

Thank you!

[Rhiannon]

Ippy

Go ahead, create your own religion but do not belittle mine.

I don't understand, to belittle is to dismiss, yet you later wrote 'I am not asking anyone else to believe what I believe'.

Sensing some inconsistency.

It's a kind of implicit agreement - he's had the decency to explain his views not to proselytise or convert, but just so that people might understand.

All he's asking in return is that you respect the spirit in which that's been done, and not be dismissive or mocking.

It really doesn't seem hard - you don't need to accept it as 'truth', he's not asking you to, so you don't need to go to any lengths to say so.

O.

Yes, Matt and I come from the same place on this. There are so many misconceptions around about paganism that it is important for us to state our beliefs and practices - if you listened to some of the Christians here you'd think we were all satanists.

[ippy]

Part of my belief as a Pagan is that the deities, female and male, are immanent - present in all things.

Once again, wlking along Hounslow High Street I see a group of Christians whose 'stand', for want of a better word, is fronted with a banner asking "Have you found God? Have you found Jesus?"

To the second question my answer, if the question were put to me verbally, would be either that "I didn't know that he was lost" or that "he was hiding in the cupboard under the stairs playing chess with Harry Potter!"

To the first is a different matter. In my belief I do not need to find "God", as I believe that there is more than one and that a single deity of one sex or the other is not possible as without both sexes the deity is sterile.

Also I believe that to find my deities all I have to do is open my eyes and look around me at anything natural; or to look at just about anything as without the dieties humans would not be as creative as they are.

Maybe the question should be amended to ask "Have you found our God?" In which case my answer would be that I was brought up with him and ditched him at age 15.

But I cannot see the point of the question as some Christians, some on here, tell us that their God created everything so, surely, they could do the same as I and find their God just by opening their eyes and without the intercession of clerics or evangelicals.

I am not "attacking" Christian beliefs, I am asking for an explanation of something that I find inexplicable

Christians, they're a funny lot, without a doubt, I can't see that paganism is all that sensible either?

You all, seems to me, believe in things that can't be substantiated.

I could dream up a few spurious beliefs if you like and what about the Star Wars lot now into Jedi.

ippy

Ippy

Go ahead, create your own religion but do not belittle mine.

I have said more times than I care to think about, and each time it falls on the deaf ears of those who are of other religions or none, and I will say it again:

My religion is a BELIEF! MY belief! I will continue to believe that what I believe is the truth and until someone comes back from the dread (someone who I KNOW really is dead) and tells me that I am wrong I will continue in my belief in the Circle of Birth, Life, Death and Re-birth and the ancient deities of Paganism all the way back to 25,000BCE.

It works for me! I am not asking anyone else to believe what I believe, such proselytising is one of my pet hates about Christianity and Islam.

You want to believe in the Christian God or the Islamic God, with all their (what I see as) faults?

GO AHEAD! Please! All I am asking is that you give me the right to believe what I believe to be the truth.

You're asking me to not belittle your belief, looking at the contents of your post I don't need to belittle your belief.

Secularism would support your freedom to believe whatever you chose to believe, seems pretty fair to me.

We now have, as I've said, another lot into the Jedi, from Star Wars, where, at what point does your belief in paganism become more sensible than whatever Jedi belief is all about.

ippy     

[Owlswing]

We now have, as I've said, another lot into the Jedi, from Star Wars, where, at what point does your belief in paganism become more sensible than whatever Jedi belief is all about.

ippy   

I haven't a clue!

I do not know anyone who claims that Jedi is their religion. I thus have no idea what they believe, what their practices are.

For the benefit if others who have posted on this thread, THIS is what I mean by "belittling" my beliefs - comparing a very real (to me) religion that has existed for more than 20,000 years with some fictional nonsense from a film which is science FICTION!

[Rhiannon]

As I understand it Jedi have identified within the films a way of life that resonates with them (loosely resembling various martial arts) and regard 'The Force' in a similar way that Eastern religions understand prana, chi, Tao etc.

[Rhiannon]

That's not including the 'Jedi' who responded as such to bugger up the census results.

[Owlswing]

That's not including the 'Jedi' who responded as such to bugger up the census results.

How long do you think that it will be before they claim that the lightsabre is a religious weapon in the same way that a Sikh sword is and demand the right to carry it in public at all times!

[Andy]

That's not including the 'Jedi' who responded as such to bugger up the census results.

How long do you think that it will be before they claim that the lightsabre is a religious weapon in the same way that a Sikh sword is and demand the right to carry it in public at all times!

As if.

You underestimate the power of the dark side.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Christians, they're a funny lot, without a doubt, I can't see that paganism is all that sensible either?

You all, seems to me, believe in things that can't be substantiated.

Oh............. you mean like philosophical naturalism and philosophical materialism and beautiful British common sense...that kind of thing.

[Shaker]

Oh............. you mean like philosophical naturalism and philosophical materialism

No, Vlad. Only you meant that.

Take one of the blue pills and have a lie down.

[ippy]

We now have, as I've said, another lot into the Jedi, from Star Wars, where, at what point does your belief in paganism become more sensible than whatever Jedi belief is all about.

ippy   

I haven't a clue!

I do not know anyone who claims that Jedi is their religion. I thus have no idea what they believe, what their practices are.

For the benefit if others who have posted on this thread, THIS is what I mean by "belittling" my beliefs - comparing a very real (to me) religion that has existed for more than 20,000 years with some fictional nonsense from a film which is science FICTION!

Nonsense is still nonsense if its first appearance was as many years back as you might like to go, there are supposed adherents to the Jedi, beats me why in the same way people go for paganism, neither of them make any sense to me, but if you must, be my guest you're welcome to it.

ippy

[Owlswing]

We now have, as I've said, another lot into the Jedi, from Star Wars, where, at what point does your belief in paganism become more sensible than whatever Jedi belief is all about.

ippy   

I haven't a clue!

I do not know anyone who claims that Jedi is their religion. I thus have no idea what they believe, what their practices are.

For the benefit if others who have posted on this thread, THIS is what I mean by "belittling" my beliefs - comparing a very real (to me) religion that has existed for more than 20,000 years with some fictional nonsense from a film which is science FICTION!

Nonsense is still nonsense if its first appearance was as many years back as you might like to go, there are supposed adherents to the Jedi, beats me why in the same way people go for paganism, neither of them make any sense to me, but if you must, be my guest you're welcome to it.

ippy

Hoo-fucking-ray - I have Ippy's permission to follow my religion! So now everything is rosy!

As if I ever needed either your permission or your approval!

[ippy]

Christians, they're a funny lot, without a doubt, I can't see that paganism is all that sensible either?

You all, seems to me, believe in things that can't be substantiated.

Oh............. you mean like philosophical naturalism and philosophical materialism and beautiful British common sense...that kind of thing.

Hi there Vlad, I did ask you some time back if English was your first language, you know, were you born here? Only the way you present your posts here on the forum it wouldn't surprise me, could it be something like you were brought up speaking New Ginea pidgeon? And now you're sort of writing English still using N G grammar?

ippy

[Owlswing]

Christians, they're a funny lot, without a doubt, I can't see that paganism is all that sensible either?

You all, seems to me, believe in things that can't be substantiated.

Oh............. you mean like philosophical naturalism and philosophical materialism and beautiful British common sense...that kind of thing.

Hi there Vlad, I did ask you some time back if English was your first language, you know, were you born here? Only the way you present your posts here on the forum it wouldn't surprise me, could it be something like you were brought up speaking New Ginea pidgeon? And now you're sort of writing English still using N G grammar?

ippy

He thinks that using big words makes him look intelligent.

[ippy]

We now have, as I've said, another lot into the Jedi, from Star Wars, where, at what point does your belief in paganism become more sensible than whatever Jedi belief is all about.

ippy   

I haven't a clue!

I do not know anyone who claims that Jedi is their religion. I thus have no idea what they believe, what their practices are.

For the benefit if others who have posted on this thread, THIS is what I mean by "belittling" my beliefs - comparing a very real (to me) religion that has existed for more than 20,000 years with some fictional nonsense from a film which is science FICTION!

Nonsense is still nonsense if its first appearance was as many years back as you might like to go, there are supposed adherents to the Jedi, beats me why in the same way people go for paganism, neither of them make any sense to me, but if you must, be my guest you're welcome to it.

ippy

Hoo-fucking-ray - I have Ippy's permission to follow my religion! So now everything is rosy!

As if I ever needed either your permission or your approval!

You obviously didn't know how generous I can be, that's allright you can carry on.

ippy

[Shaker]

He thinks that using big words makes him look intelligent.

Unfortunately, the fact that he can use only the same half-dozen or so big words over and over and over again rather spoils the effect.

[Owlswing]

He thinks that using big words makes him look intelligent.

Unfortunately, the fact that he can use only the same half-dozen or so big words over and over and over again rather spoils the effect.

Hence the "thinks".