WHAT makes a person saved in Christ Jesus?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

understanding of the dual-nature of fairies[/s] pulled that out of their collective arses and made it canon.

O.

What............. you mean like how a moral subjectivist must get their morality?

[BeRational]

The only trouble is and I'm sure you'll agree with me is when the concept of anything includes measurable and physical features, then they are falsifiable and sadly, not in the same category as God.

Except that your God manifested an avatar, and so had measurable physical features, but then the body conveniently disappeared!!!

Well fairies manifest for a while as an embodiment of the Silidh Court, but then they disappear again, and if they're captured they turn to dust and disappear...

So no, they're exactly as falsifiable as God.

O.

Unfortunately those pesky theologians have got round a limited understanding of the possibilities inherent in the avatar thing. Jesus they say is both human and divine.
So yes a historical Jesus and an unfalsifiable eternally begotten son.

Jesus is falsifiable.

It could be shown that he never existed.

1;Yes Jesus is falsifiable in the sense that we all would be if records were lost or doubted I suppose

2: Go ahead

So Jesus is falsifiable then?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

The only trouble is and I'm sure you'll agree with me is when the concept of anything includes measurable and physical features, then they are falsifiable and sadly, not in the same category as God.

Except that your God manifested an avatar, and so had measurable physical features, but then the body conveniently disappeared!!!

Well fairies manifest for a while as an embodiment of the Silidh Court, but then they disappear again, and if they're captured they turn to dust and disappear...

So no, they're exactly as falsifiable as God.

O.

Unfortunately those pesky theologians have got round a limited understanding of the possibilities inherent in the avatar thing. Jesus they say is both human and divine.
So yes a historical Jesus and an unfalsifiable eternally begotten son.

Jesus is falsifiable.

It could be shown that he never existed.

1;Yes Jesus is falsifiable in the sense that we all would be if records were lost or doubted I suppose

2: Go ahead

So Jesus is falsifiable then?

In the sense that anybody else's humanity is.
His divinity? No.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Dear Vlad, Blue, Outrider, Berational, old tom cobbly and all,

http://www.firstthings.com/article/2013/06/god-gods-and-fairies

Anybody read anything from this man, he mentions philosophical naturalism and black swans.

Gonnagle.

Thanks for that. All should read this.

[BeRational]

The only trouble is and I'm sure you'll agree with me is when the concept of anything includes measurable and physical features, then they are falsifiable and sadly, not in the same category as God.

Except that your God manifested an avatar, and so had measurable physical features, but then the body conveniently disappeared!!!

Well fairies manifest for a while as an embodiment of the Silidh Court, but then they disappear again, and if they're captured they turn to dust and disappear...

So no, they're exactly as falsifiable as God.

O.

Unfortunately those pesky theologians have got round a limited understanding of the possibilities inherent in the avatar thing. Jesus they say is both human and divine.
So yes a historical Jesus and an unfalsifiable eternally begotten son.

Jesus is falsifiable.

It could be shown that he never existed.

1;Yes Jesus is falsifiable in the sense that we all would be if records were lost or doubted I suppose

2: Go ahead

So Jesus is falsifiable then?

In the sense that anybody else's humanity is.
His divinity? No.

But if it could be shown that he never existed, then the divinity would never enter into the argument.

So your god is in fact falsifiable

[Walt Zingmatilder]

The only trouble is and I'm sure you'll agree with me is when the concept of anything includes measurable and physical features, then they are falsifiable and sadly, not in the same category as God.

Except that your God manifested an avatar, and so had measurable physical features, but then the body conveniently disappeared!!!

Well fairies manifest for a while as an embodiment of the Silidh Court, but then they disappear again, and if they're captured they turn to dust and disappear...

So no, they're exactly as falsifiable as God.

O.

Unfortunately those pesky theologians have got round a limited understanding of the possibilities inherent in the avatar thing. Jesus they say is both human and divine.
So yes a historical Jesus and an unfalsifiable eternally begotten son.

Jesus is falsifiable.

It could be shown that he never existed.

1;Yes Jesus is falsifiable in the sense that we all would be if records were lost or doubted I suppose

2: Go ahead

So Jesus is falsifiable then?

In the sense that anybody else's humanity is.
His divinity? No.

But if it could be shown that he never existed, then the divinity would never enter into the argument.

So your god is in fact falsifiable

Unfortunately, for you, the unfalsifiability is a feature of the divine and the divine crops up in many religions.

[BeRational]

The only trouble is and I'm sure you'll agree with me is when the concept of anything includes measurable and physical features, then they are falsifiable and sadly, not in the same category as God.

Except that your God manifested an avatar, and so had measurable physical features, but then the body conveniently disappeared!!!

Well fairies manifest for a while as an embodiment of the Silidh Court, but then they disappear again, and if they're captured they turn to dust and disappear...

So no, they're exactly as falsifiable as God.

O.

Unfortunately those pesky theologians have got round a limited understanding of the possibilities inherent in the avatar thing. Jesus they say is both human and divine.
So yes a historical Jesus and an unfalsifiable eternally begotten son.

Jesus is falsifiable.

It could be shown that he never existed.

1;Yes Jesus is falsifiable in the sense that we all would be if records were lost or doubted I suppose

2: Go ahead

So Jesus is falsifiable then?

In the sense that anybody else's humanity is.
His divinity? No.

But if it could be shown that he never existed, then the divinity would never enter into the argument.

So your god is in fact falsifiable

Unfortunately, for you, the unfalsifiability is a feature of the divine and the divine crops up in many religions.

Not if it can be shown that Jesus never existed.

If that can be shown he never existed, then he had no attributes at all including any supposed divinity.

[Gordon]

Unfortunately, for you, the unfalsifiability is a feature of the divine and the divine crops up in many religions.

If so, Vlad, would you say that, for instance, Thor and Apollo are as equally unfalsifiable as you consider the Christian God to be?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

The only trouble is and I'm sure you'll agree with me is when the concept of anything includes measurable and physical features, then they are falsifiable and sadly, not in the same category as God.

Except that your God manifested an avatar, and so had measurable physical features, but then the body conveniently disappeared!!!

Well fairies manifest for a while as an embodiment of the Silidh Court, but then they disappear again, and if they're captured they turn to dust and disappear...

So no, they're exactly as falsifiable as God.

O.

Unfortunately those pesky theologians have got round a limited understanding of the possibilities inherent in the avatar thing. Jesus they say is both human and divine.
So yes a historical Jesus and an unfalsifiable eternally begotten son.

Jesus is falsifiable.

It could be shown that he never existed.

1;Yes Jesus is falsifiable in the sense that we all would be if records were lost or doubted I suppose

2: Go ahead

So Jesus is falsifiable then?

In the sense that anybody else's humanity is.
His divinity? No.

But if it could be shown that he never existed, then the divinity would never enter into the argument.

So your god is in fact falsifiable

Unfortunately, for you, the unfalsifiability is a feature of the divine and the divine crops up in many religions.

Not if it can be shown that Jesus never existed.

If that can be shown he never existed, then he had no attributes at all including any supposed divinity.

Not really it would merely show that a man called Jesus never existed leaving the question of the unfalsifiability of the divine intact.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Unfortunately, for you, the unfalsifiability is a feature of the divine and the divine crops up in many religions.

If so, Vlad, would you say that, for instance, Thor and Apollo are as equally unfalsifiable as you consider the Christian God to be?

If they are unfalsifiable they are unfalsifiable. Their existence in a sense is then not determined in anyway by science.
Are you saying unfalsifiability equals ridiculousness now? What is it you find ridiculous about Thor and Appollo?

[bluehillside Retd.]

UndergroundovergroundVlunderingfree,

Unfortunately, for you, the unfalsifiability is a feature of the divine and the divine crops up in many religions.

Unfortunately for you unfalsifiability is a feature of any conjecture that's set up that way - gods, fairies, orbiting teapots, whatever. That your theology entails an unfalsifiable supernatural god that also happens to do material things from time-to-time just puts it on all fours with the fairyology that entails different supernatural somethings that also happen to do material things from time-to-time.

Just to note too by the way that you've shifted ground here. You claimed to have access to an objective fact ("God") because you'd "intuited" it. There was no mention of you then checking your intuition agains a falsifiability test - intuition was enough according to you. Now it happens that the extra piece you've added is a busted flush in any case as I've just explained, but it's a significant qualifier to your original claim nonetheless.     

[Walt Zingmatilder]

UndergroundovergroundVlunderingfree,

Unfortunately, for you, the unfalsifiability is a feature of the divine and the divine crops up in many religions.

Unfortunately for you unfalsifiability is a feature of any conjecture that's set up that way - gods, fairies, orbiting teapots, whatever. That your theology entails an unfalsifiable supernatural god that also happens to do material things from time-to-time just puts it on all fours with the fairyology that entails different supernatural somethings that also happen to do material things from time-to-time.

Just to note too by the way that you've shifted ground here. You claimed to have access to an objective fact ("God") because you'd "intuited" it. There was no mention of you then checking your intuition agains a falsifiability test - intuition was enough according to you. Now it happens that the extra piece you've added is a busted flush in any case as I've just explained, but it's a significant qualifier to your original claim nonetheless.   

I think we'd rather covered the fact that any physical property manifested at any time renders that thing falsifiable because at that moment it is rendered falsifiable because I suppose it could be sneakily caught by CCTV camera.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlundertheboardwalk,

I think we'd rather covered the fact that any physical property manifested at any time renders that thing falsifiable because at that moment it is rendered falsifiable because I suppose it could be sneakily caught by CCTV camera.

Are you seriously suggesting that fairies need to make themselves any more visible than your god does to do their various deeds, or that they're not as smart as your god is at avoiding recording apparatus?

Why the special pleading?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vlundertheboardwalk,

I think we'd rather covered the fact that any physical property manifested at any time renders that thing falsifiable because at that moment it is rendered falsifiable because I suppose it could be sneakily caught by CCTV camera.

Are you seriously suggesting that fairies need to make themselves any more visible than your god

Yep if they have occassional physicality.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlunderbus,

Yep if they have occassional physicality.

Really?

So all those who think they have witnessed physical manifestations of your god are wrong then?

And if you're so relaxed about the mistakes they've made on the basis of their physical senses, whence your complacency about how accurate your sense of intuition must be (albeit that you've now bolted a falsifiability test onto it)?

Of course, that's before we even get to how your god cures little Timmy when the doctors have given up on him without a physicial presence...

...yeah, don't tell me: "It's magic" eh?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vlunderbus,

Yep if they have occassional physicality.

Really?

So all those who think they have witnessed physical manifestations of your god are wrong then?

Jesus is both human and divine

Fairies are fairy and er, fairy.....................Don't you think you have scraped the barrel enough Hillside?

[BeRational]

Vlunderbus,

Yep if they have occassional physicality.

Really?

So all those who think they have witnessed physical manifestations of your god are wrong then?

Jesus is both human and divine

Fairies are fairy and er, fairy.....................Don't you think you have scraped the barrel enough Hillside?

But if it can be shown he never existed, he would be neither.

He would be falsified, and therefore WRONG.

[jeremyp]

Yep if they have occassional physicality.

Like Jesus.

[Outrider]

understanding of the dual-nature of fairies[/s] pulled that out of their collective arses and made it canon.

O.

What............. you mean like how a moral subjectivist must get their morality?

Yes, like how moral objectivist get the objective source of their morals.

O.

[Outrider]

Unfortunately those pesky theologians have got round a limited understanding of the possibilities inherent in the avatar thing. Jesus they say is both human and divine. So yes a historical Jesus and an unfalsifiable eternally begotten son.

And fairies, it turns out, are both entirely physical and spiritualists. Fae-ologists have got round a limited understanding of the dual-nature of fairies pulled that out of their collective arses and made it canon.

O.

Yep, but their physical features alone would establish them as fairies.

No, because if you capture them in order to try and demonstrate their physical features they'd disappear into dust, remember.

O.

[Outrider]

Vlunderbus,

Yep if they have occassional physicality.

Really?

So all those who think they have witnessed physical manifestations of your god are wrong then?

Jesus is both human and divine

Fairies are fairy and er, fairy.....................Don't you think you have scraped the barrel enough Hillside?

So, to paraphrase: Jesus is both human and magic (of a sort that I like), but fairies are both fairy and magic (of a sort that I don't like). Therefore God.

Hmmm... there might be a flaw of the special pleading variety hiding in there somewhere, if only I could highlight it...

O.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

but fairies are both fairy and magic (of a sort that I don't like).

O.
[/quote]
Haven't you been to Disneyland? Who doesn't like fairy magic?.......

It all just goes to show how far from reality you antitheist ''thinkers'' are.

[Andy]

Jesus is both human and divine.

If divinity is unfalsifiable, then what you say about Jesus here can be said about anyone.

[Outrider]

but fairies are both fairy and magic (of a sort that I don't like).

O.

Haven't you been to Disneyland? Who doesn't like fairy magic?.......

It all just goes to show how far from reality you antitheist ''thinkers'' are.
[/quote]

That sort of response just shows how far from a 'thinker' you are - address the point or concede it, but this puerile attempt at a misdirection isn't fooling anyone.

O.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Jesus is both human and divine.

If divinity is unfalsifiable, then what you say about Jesus here can be said about anyone.

Pantheism caters for that. The alternative argument though would start with the idea that just because things are unfalsifiable it doesn't mean they are the same. Just like you are falsifiable and so are rubberducks.

I cannot fault your assertion. A Christian would use other arguments to say why Christ is unique.