Who Do You Think You Are

[Harrowby Hall]

Anyone who did not watch this programme tonight should do so on iPlayer.

Its central story is the partition of Pakistan from India and the massacre of Hindu women and girls in order to spare them from falling into Muslim hands.

I don't think that any tv programme has ever moved, horrified, depressed me as much as this one has.

[trippymonkey]

OMG I was in tears when Anita was told the story of a Muslim mob who came to this Sikh family's door demanding a young, beautiful girl, then they'd leave them alone. !!! Yeah RIGHT !!!
The girls accepted their deaths at the hands of their FATHERS than have the shame of, very likely, horrendous rape & murder ?!?!!??

I defy ANYONE to watch it & not be horrified !!!!!

[Sriram]

HH

I suggest you find solutions for the organised rapes and child abuses that are happening today in the west (refer the 'polygamist' thread) ...(not to mention school shootings!).... and stop being 'horrified' by things that happened 60 years ago in India and elsewhere. 

Funnily no one appears to make documentaries and TV programs on such matters!

Very selective sense of morality many of you seem to have!! 

[Harrowby Hall]

Sriram

You haven't seen the programme. You are making assumptions about its content. In the absence of any real understanding of the nature of the programme you risk making a public fool of yourself.

Don't make judgements on things of which you have no knowledge.

[Sriram]

Sriram

You haven't seen the programme. You are making assumptions about its content. In the absence of any real understanding of the nature of the programme you risk making a public fool of yourself.

Don't make judgements on things of which you have no knowledge.

What you have mentioned in the OP is enough.

[Harrowby Hall]

Sriram

You haven't seen the programme. You are making assumptions about its content. In the absence of any real understanding of the nature of the programme you risk making a public fool of yourself.

Don't make judgements on things of which you have no knowledge.

What you have mentioned in the OP is enough.

You know neither the content of the programme not its context. You should learn to control your knee-jerk reactions. The content of the programme is seen entirely through Indian (educated, compassionate, articulate British Indian) eyes.

If you ever do get to see the programme then I look forward to seeing your apology on this forum.

[trippymonkey]

Sriram-Ji
I know exactly what you're saying as you know I visit India regularly & it's my second home & friends there, Muslim. Hindu etc, are my second family now.

Would you please explain why you feel as you do about NOW as well as what the prog was on about, please ?
BTW People ARE making docs on the more 'modern' versions of these events !!!

Best
Nick

[Sriram]

Sriram-Ji
I know exactly what you're saying as you know I visit India regularly & it's my second home & friends there, Muslim. Hindu etc, are my second family now.

Would you please explain why you feel as you do about NOW as well as what the prog was on about, please ?
BTW People ARE making docs on the more 'modern' versions of these events !!!

Best
Nick

Well Nick....my reaction is based on the propensity of HH (and some others on here), to highlight, express horror and indignation over many things that have happened in the past in India or are happening there now ....but taking similar things happening in the west or other 'developed' countries, in a matter of fact way.   Things like rapes, child abuse, trafficking, discrimination, killings and so on.

News reporters and documentary makers in the west are not very different.   

And this bias is not just about India, its about all traditional societies including muslims (presumably because of the perceived influence of religion).

[trippymonkey]

Accha So you feel they're being a bit 'selective' in their comments???

This post is about that prog though. It would make the post many pages long if we step to one side & start discussing what going on 'here', so to speak, na?

I DO agree much more can be done NOW & maybe we should dwell a bit less on the past & use our energies to sort out awful abuses NOW but, again, we must stress this isn't about East V West.

Nick

[Rhiannon]

If anything in our recent history we've tiptoed around the issue of race, culture and the abuse of women, as in our failure to protect young girls in Rotherham, Oxford and elsewhere.

[Rhiannon]

HH

I suggest you find solutions for the organised rapes and child abuses that are happening today in the west (refer the 'polygamist' thread) ...(not to mention school shootings!).... and stop being 'horrified' by things that happened 60 years ago in India and elsewhere. 

Funnily no one appears to make documentaries and TV programs on such matters!

Very selective sense of morality many of you seem to have!! 

Actually Sriram they do make documentaries and TV programs on such matters.

The holocaust and how people suffered across Europe in ww2.

Or how very poor workers and children were treated in the UK in factories, years ago where there were no safety guards to protect them and human life was not considered valuable.

Children were stuck down mines all day,  dragging coal to the surface.

I am going to watch it, but it seems to me ( reading the op) it is about how beastly people can be to each other, and how lives are regarded sometimes by people who are perceived to belong to a different group.

There are many such documentaries, India isn't immune, any more than anywhere else.

It  sounds like a tragic human story.

From what I can gather there is a mix of opinion as the whether the women killed themselves willingly, or were killed/ordered to kill themselves by the men in the community who could not endure the 'shame' of having their women raped by men from other religions.

There's been coverage recently given to the systematic rape of German women by the Russians at the end of WW2. I don't think for a minute anyone thinks this is about East v west - but is is about using the abuse of women as a weapon of war.

[Andy]

I don't think for a minute anyone thinks this is about East v west

Anyone other than Sriram, you mean?

[Rhiannon]

I don't think for a minute anyone thinks this is about East v west

Anyone other than Sriram, you mean?

Fair point.

One major step towards stopping atrocities like this from happening might be to stop dividing humanity up into 'them' and 'us'.

[Andy]

I don't think for a minute anyone thinks this is about East v west

Anyone other than Sriram, you mean?

Sriram probably has no idea what " who do you think you are?" Is.

No one gave him the context, so don't be to hard on him.

Perhaps he should educate himself first before flying off the handle and making an arse of himself. It isn't my job nor anyone else's to spoon feed his ignorance.

[Rhiannon]

I don't think for a minute anyone thinks this is about East v west

Anyone other than Sriram, you mean?

Sriram probably has no idea what " who do you think you are?" Is.

No one gave him the context, so don't be to hard on him.

He thinks our response to the story on the LDS abuses in the States is a load of excuses for the West as well.

http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=10932.0

[Andy]

Yes, it is ignorance. I was ignorant of some of the things that went on before I watched the programme last night, now I'm not. See, I watched it first to give me a foundation in order to comment from. It's how I know he's talking bollocks

I'm sure he's a big enough boy to actually educate himself first before passing judgement.

[Sriram]

Accha So you feel they're being a bit 'selective' in their comments???

This post is about that prog though. It would make the post many pages long if we step to one side & start discussing what going on 'here', so to speak, na?

I DO agree much more can be done NOW & maybe we should dwell a bit less on the past & use our energies to sort out awful abuses NOW but, again, we must stress this isn't about East V West.

Nick

Of course it is about east & west...knowing HH and his propensity to interject irrelevant negative posts about India into every thread!!

I don't see how the program about some lady of Indian origin tracing her fathers past has anything to do with these boards. (And not one of the mods bothers to shift the thread from the Science boards to wherever it belongs??!!).   

[Rhiannon]

Thank you for pointing that out, Sriram.

Although clicking 'report to moderator' is generally more efficient.

[Sriram]

Thank you for pointing that out, Sriram.

Although clicking 'report to moderator' is generally more efficient.

You have posted on this thread. You should have known without anyone pointing it out!

[Andy]

Thank you for pointing that out, Sriram.

Although clicking 'report to moderator' is generally more efficient.

You have posted on this thread. You should have known without anyone pointing it out!

Well at least now you're showing your magnanimity...

[Rhiannon]

Moderator:

I did; we're discussing where best to move it to. A subject this serious isn't exactly 'entertainment'.

[Sriram]

Moderator:

I did; we're discussing where best to move it to. A subject this serious isn't exactly 'entertainment'.

You should start a 'India' section and post it there.  HH, Johnny, Jakswan, KO and others can also spend their time gleefully discussing caste, partition, Delhi rape, poverty, Sati and so on on that board. Condition should be that only negative aspects are discussed, of course!     

[Rhiannon]

Absolutely. 15 - and in those days girls were pretty young at fifteen in many ways - is just the kind of age to get caught up in the glamour of Naziism. The rape of German women did nothing to change what the Nazzis did, it just created more suffering and more hate.

[Sriram]

What is this about the Russians raping the Germans? Why only Russians (always the bad guys...these Russians)? British always the nice gentlemanly guys...what?!

I bet many British, French and American soldiers also raped German women during the war, besides women of many other nationalities.

[Harrowby Hall]

Confession time. I'm not sure why I posted under this subject. It was late at night and I was very tired. Perhaps it was because television is technology! Apologies

You should start a 'India' section and post it there.  HH, Johnny, Jakswan, KO and others can also spend their time gleefully discussing caste, partition, Delhi rape, poverty, Sati and so on on that board. Condition should be that only negative aspects are discussed, of course!     

On the basis of a couple of posts about caste and a further one about a British Indian couple being convicted - in a criminal court - of treating a woman, who was deliberately employed by them because she was from a low caste, as a slave, Sriram has decided that somehow I am anti-India. I am not.

I am against the institutionalising of differences - be they differences of sex, sexual orientation, ethnic origin, national origin or cultural origin. Sriram maintains that caste is of no importance in modern India. I think that he is being disingenuous - it is how he would like the world to perceive modern India.

I am sure that at the "official" level caste is now outlawed in India and it is little importance among the metropolitan elite. But at other levels and in other places? A mere edict will not remove it.

I referred to an article in a serious journal, written by a respected academic of Indian origin, about the existence of caste-related behaviour among the Indian diaspora in Britain. Sriram rubbished it.

Few people on this forum, I am sure, have any antipathy towards India, but Sriram chooses to perceive things differently. I described my reactions to the tv programme I saw last night and was immediately insulted for doing so.

You are to be commended for defending the honour of your homeland, Sriram, but don't do it blindly. Nowhere is perfect, certainly not Britain and certainly not India.