Author Topic: Who Do You Think You Are  (Read 22794 times)

Sriram

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Re: Who Do You Think You Are
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2015, 01:33:49 PM »
Confession time. I'm not sure why I posted under this subject. It was late at night and I was very tired. Perhaps it was because television is technology! Apologies


You should start a 'India' section and post it there.  HH, Johnny, Jakswan, KO and others can also spend their time gleefully discussing caste, partition, Delhi rape, poverty, Sati and so on on that board. Condition should be that only negative aspects are discussed, of course!     ::)

On the basis of a couple of posts about caste and a further one about a British Indian couple being convicted - in a criminal court - of treating a woman, who was deliberately employed by them because she was from a low caste, as a slave, Sriram has decided that somehow I am anti-India. I am not.

I am against the institutionalising of differences - be they differences of sex, sexual orientation, ethnic origin, national origin or cultural origin. Sriram maintains that caste is of no importance in modern India. I think that he is being disingenuous - it is how he would like the world to perceive modern India.

I am sure that at the "official" level caste is now outlawed in India and it is little importance among the metropolitan elite. But at other levels and in other places? A mere edict will not remove it.

I referred to an article in a serious journal, written by a respected academic of Indian origin, about the existence of caste-related behaviour among the Indian diaspora in Britain. Sriram rubbished it.

Few people on this forum, I am sure, have any antipathy towards India, but Sriram chooses to perceive things differently. I described my reactions to the tv programme I saw last night and was immediately insulted for doing so.

You are to be commended for defending the honour of your homeland, Sriram, but don't do it blindly. Nowhere is perfect, certainly not Britain and certainly not India.

Now what?! Am I supposed to applaud and wipe my moist eyes or something?  :D

There you go...you managed to start a India thread after all!  I seriously think a 'India' section would be in order. There is so much discussion about it.....much more than about Hindu philosophy.

Anyway...thanks HH.   Just jump to it and show the same indignation and scorn when rape and abuse happen elsewhere. That's all! 

Cheers.

Harrowby Hall

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Re: Who Do You Think You Are
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2015, 01:35:55 PM »


What is this about the Russians raping the Germans? Why only Russians (always the bad guys...these Russians)? British always the nice gentlemanly guys...what?!

I bet many British, French and American soldiers also raped German women during the war, besides women of many other nationalities.

It is entirely possible that some British, American and French soldiers raped German women towards the end of WW2 in Europe. However, it was not used as a deliberate military tactic as it was by the Russians. Don't forget: Russia started WW2 as Germany's allies and then suffered privation, starvation and 27 million fatal casualties - more than all the other allies combined.
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Udayana

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Re: Who Do You Think You Are
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2015, 02:08:53 PM »
I haven't yet watched the programme, although I do generally watch this series, I hadn't expected Anita's story to be one about partition.

This is history, it has to be examined so that we can learn how to deal with the same or worse issues in our own time and geography, wherever we are. Although, looking at Syria, ISIL, the ME and North Africa, etc we don't seem to be much good at learning anything at all.
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

Sriram

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Re: Who Do You Think You Are
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2015, 03:18:12 PM »
Sriram this is the best I can do

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3255063/To-hear-brutal-changed-Strictly-star-Anita-Rani-left-stunned-discovering-grandfather-s-wife-killed-India-raped-savage-violence-Partition.html


It gives you an idea of what the programme was about.

🌹


Thanks Rose. I'll try to watch it.  I do know what the programme is about....but I'll watch it tonight all the same (if the link works).

Owlswing

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Re: Who Do You Think You Are
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2015, 05:01:19 PM »
Moderator:

I did; we're discussing where best to move it to. A subject this serious isn't exactly 'entertainment'.


You should start a 'India' section and post it there.  HH, Johnny, Jakswan, KO and others can also spend their time gleefully discussing caste, partition, Delhi rape, poverty, Sati and so on on that board. Condition should be that only negative aspects are discussed, of course!     ::)

OOOO touchy aren't we!

You have posted enough on various threads here that could well be as equally racist (which is what you are screaming on about without the guts to actually say - type - the word) about the British/English that you really ought to calm down and realise just how much of an arse you are making of yourself, but then, like a lot of people of colour, you probably deem only white people can be called racists.
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Sriram

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Re: Who Do You Think You Are
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2015, 05:23:08 AM »
I think it is a shame Sriram can't see the programme , because he might have had a more empathic response and could have given us perhaps an insight into the cultural background of the family involved.


Actually Rose....I live in the south which is almost completely insulated from such happenings.  Its like people in Spain are insulated from happenings in Norway.  Life in the south is relatively more peaceful and less disturbed as compared to the North and particularly the North-west.  This has been so from the  days of Alexander the Great.....to the partition.

I do know some people from the north who work in the south and almost every person would have at least one family member who has gone through the travails of partition.  It was a major movement of millions of people from one part to the other leaving behind all their property and belongings.  I am sure it could have been done in a more planned manner.....but emotions were running high during those times and expecting discipline and patience might have been asking for too much.

So...I don't have any direct experience of partition (it was before my time) and nor do I know anyone who has gone through it themselves.



Sriram

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Re: Who Do You Think You Are
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2015, 05:55:18 AM »


I am against the institutionalising of differences - be they differences of sex, sexual orientation, ethnic origin, national origin or cultural origin. Sriram maintains that caste is of no importance in modern India. I think that he is being disingenuous - it is how he would like the world to perceive modern India.

I am sure that at the "official" level caste is now outlawed in India and it is little importance among the metropolitan elite. But at other levels and in other places? A mere edict will not remove it.

I referred to an article in a serious journal, written by a respected academic of Indian origin, about the existence of caste-related behaviour among the Indian diaspora in Britain. Sriram rubbished it.



Hi HH

I don't think anyone on these boards would know India as well as I do. I have lived here in South India all my life, lived in the north and eastern parts for some years and traveled to almost all parts of the country.... and I speak more than five languages.

India's diversity and varied culture, customs and lifestyle.... is something you cannot even fathom! Social scientists and historians who have been working on this for decades are unable to get a grip on it.

I know westerners like to make a song and dance about caste and Sati and dowry and arranged marriages....(even eating with fingers and saris)... and so on. 'Oh Indians do that...oh Indians do this' 'Its all so quaint and strange' etc.....as though we are some deviant species and owe everyone else an explanation!   >:(

They have been doing that from the 18th and 19th centuries.....and nothing much has changed in their reporting even today.... though lot has changed in the society.  Its all about what you want to see and about stereotyping and dubbing entire communities as such and such.

Its probably less confusing and less bothersome to do that than actually find out details and segregate people into  different regions and different communities etc. Its much easier to adopt a simplistic ...'oh..these people are all like that'! But it is nevertheless wrong!

The point is that, as probably the sole rep of India here...I cannot accept sweeping generalizations and stereotyping....especially when I  know for a fact that it is not true.   :)


 
« Last Edit: October 03, 2015, 07:13:18 AM by Sriram »

Owlswing

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Re: Who Do You Think You Are
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2015, 08:21:20 AM »

The point is that, as probably the sole rep of India here...I cannot accept sweeping generalizations and stereotyping....especially when I  know for a fact that it is not true.   :)

But you are quite happy to make similar sweeping generalisations and stereotyping of Western nations and peoples.

If you read these boards you will find that almost all posters have, at one time or another, accepted that the history of their racial or religious group is littered with incidents of various durations of which they are not proud and which the would much prefer had never happened - but the did.

They accept that these things happened and see them dissected and discussed and made public in the media - you, apparently are unable to do the same.

Let's face it when was the last time you heard of the sisters of an adulterous Londoner being sentenced to be raped and paraded through the streets naked!     
« Last Edit: October 03, 2015, 10:31:59 AM by CMG KCMG GCMG »
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: Who Do You Think You Are
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2015, 08:38:28 AM »
Thank you for your considered reply, Sriram. And thank you for not stereotyping me. I am not a member of the "let's knock India" brigade. In my quarter century as a lecturer in higher education I have associated with - as students and colleagues - people from many ethnic and cultural backgrounds as well as people of all sexual orientations. They have enriched my life.

I have never been to India (though have flown over it - but since there was total cloud cover at the time, I cannot even claim to have seen India). I welcome your observations about life in your homeland.

A couple of points.

The tv programme related tales of fathers killing their own daughters, husbands killing their own wives to save them from the indignations (understatement) they believed they would receive. Women killed themselves for the same reasons. I was not commenting on the funny habits of primitive natives - which I think appeared to be your interpretation of my post. I was distressed by the thought of it happening and the unimaginable despair that caused it.

There is a sizable Hindu population in Britain and in some places, Leicester and Wembley come to mind, they have developed significant communities. Many of these people are second, third even fourth generation inhabitants. The original immigrants may well have arrived with firm attitudes about caste which they have passed on to their children. In schools, teachers have noted - among some children of Indian origin - signs of bullying in which caste is being invoked. You mention elsewhere suicides among school children - being bullied has been mentioned as a prime cause for this. Bullies will always look for a potential weakness and position in a social hierarchy plays into their hands.

And in India, the effects and influence of traditional social ordering may have been outlawed at the administrative and organisational levels, but it probably lingers on in individuals particularly in remote rural locations.

And then there is the effect of subculture, and the arbitrary rules and mores used to enforce conformity within the group. In Britain, we are seeing cases of literally hundreds of children and adolescent girls - almost all of whom are in care - being used as sex objects and prosititutes by men. Virtually all the men involved appear to have come from Moslem communities - possibly seeing the girls as having no value as human beings because they are not Moslems. That is one example of the influences of a subculture. There is a second subculture at work here - the "social worker" subculture (riddled with political correctness) which forbids any intimation at all that the perpetrators of this evil may come from a particular ethnic and religious background.

So you see, it isn't just India ....

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Sriram

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Re: Who Do You Think You Are
« Reply #34 on: October 05, 2015, 06:20:50 AM »
Hi HH,

 
Quote

And then there is the effect of subculture, and the arbitrary rules and mores used to enforce conformity within the group. In Britain, we are seeing cases of literally hundreds of children and adolescent girls - almost all of whom are in care - being used as sex objects and prosititutes by men. Virtually all the men involved appear to have come from Moslem communities - possibly seeing the girls as having no value as human beings because they are not Moslems. That is one example of the influences of a subculture. There is a second subculture at work here - the "social worker" subculture (riddled with political correctness) which forbids any intimation at all that the perpetrators of this evil may come from a particular ethnic and religious background.


Any group can be responsible for such activities. They just happen to be muslims in that particular case.

In India many white foreigners (Britishers in many cases) have been caught and jailed for abuse and pornography in the guise of running  orphanages, schools and NGO's.  This is quite common.  We come across at least one case every couple of years. 

Is this because of a subculture of sexual abuse and pedophilia  in the west?!

jakswan

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Re: Who Do You Think You Are
« Reply #35 on: October 05, 2015, 07:36:21 AM »
Moderator:

I did; we're discussing where best to move it to. A subject this serious isn't exactly 'entertainment'.


You should start a 'India' section and post it there.  HH, Johnny, Jakswan, KO and others can also spend their time gleefully discussing caste, partition, Delhi rape, poverty, Sati and so on on that board. Condition should be that only negative aspects are discussed, of course!     ::)

If i make 100 posts one might mention India and even then it's in response to some biased drivel you have posted. Lose the chip on your shoulder and you might be less biased.
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: Who Do You Think You Are
« Reply #36 on: October 05, 2015, 08:27:35 AM »

 We come across at least one case every couple of years. 


In a country the size of India (qv your various statements about population, diversity, cultures, religion etc) this counts for being quite common?

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Sriram

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Re: Who Do You Think You Are
« Reply #37 on: October 05, 2015, 08:35:17 AM »

 We come across at least one case every couple of years. 


In a country the size of India (qv your various statements about population, diversity, cultures, religion etc) this counts for being quite common?



What has the size of the country got to do with it? The number of foreigners running orphanages is not very high. Many of them end up being imprisoned for abuse and pedophilia and trafficking.



Owlswing

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Re: Who Do You Think You Are
« Reply #38 on: October 05, 2015, 10:22:31 AM »

 We come across at least one case every couple of years. 


In a country the size of India (qv your various statements about population, diversity, cultures, religion etc) this counts for being quite common?



What has the size of the country got to do with it? The number of foreigners running orphanages is not very high. Many of them end up being imprisoned for abuse and pedophilia and trafficking.

Sririam

Every post you make on this thread makes you look a bigger arse than the previous one!

Your attitude on this thread stinks - you are pushing an agenda that is obviously racist, based upoin trhe fact that the programme was made in Britain and found family history in India!

Give it, and us, a bloody rest!
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Re: Who Do You Think You Are
« Reply #39 on: October 05, 2015, 02:02:54 PM »
It's smoke and mirrors designed to deflect our attention from how women were and are treated in parts of India.

Owlswing

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Re: Who Do You Think You Are
« Reply #40 on: October 05, 2015, 02:33:50 PM »
It's smoke and mirrors designed to deflect our attention from how women were and are treated in parts of India.

For a short period of time I worked with two Indian ladies ( at the same time)  no idea if they came from the same part.

One was Hindu and the other was Muslim.

The thing they seemed to have in common was that had they been living in India they would have both been living with their mother in law, who apparently ruled the roost.

Both seemed to be glad to have escaped being under her thumb.

Not sure how common that is in India, to live and be told what to do by the mothering law.

It's just something they shared with me that seemed to be in their culture.
 :o

If what I heard while living on the borders of Southall the Queen Mother-in-Law is social disgrace thgat hgas been imported lock stock and barrel.

At least two girls that I worked with stated that the reason they were dating non-Indian subcontinent origin males was precisely because their ndian subcontinent origin males that they had dated had informed them that the M-I-L would be "in charge" of them if they married.

Walk through Southall or Hounslow today or any day and you will still see wives dutifully walking three paces behind their husbamds.

Because the UK is the only country in the world to enact race discrimination laws that duscriminate against the indiginous population and its laws and traditions of a thousand years the multi-cultural UK will have no British culture left soon.
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Re: Who Do You Think You Are
« Reply #41 on: October 05, 2015, 02:38:57 PM »
What laws are these that discriminate against the indigenous population?

Owlswing

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Re: Who Do You Think You Are
« Reply #42 on: October 05, 2015, 02:52:41 PM »
What laws are these that discriminate against the indigenous population?

How many times have you seen Muslims screeching race and religious hate at public meetings - any arrests - No!


Yell about the iniquities of Islam and there is a riot - any arrests - NO.

After the July 7 bombings there was a protest meeting held attended by people who were mostly white bit with more than a few Afro-Carribeans protesting at the bombings and demanding action to stop any further such activity by Muslims. It was quickly stopped by a large police presence as being likely to cause problems and possible violence.

100 yards away was a group of Muslims praising the bombers and calling for more and bigger bombings. Action by the police - none - they had been told to let the meeting go on as to try and stop would certainly result in violence.

I found this out from and old school friend who was in the police in the area.
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Re: Who Do You Think You Are
« Reply #43 on: October 05, 2015, 02:54:07 PM »
Those aren't laws that discriminate, even were your anecdotal reports true.

Sriram

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Re: Who Do You Think You Are
« Reply #44 on: October 05, 2015, 03:46:06 PM »
It's smoke and mirrors designed to deflect our attention from how women were and are treated in parts of India.


LOL!  Precisely what I believed the OP was trying to highlight (surreptitiously)! You have proved my point Rhiannon!
All that beady eyed innocence and being appalled at my first post didn't work for long did it?!  ;D

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Re: Who Do You Think You Are
« Reply #45 on: October 05, 2015, 04:06:51 PM »
Women are abused the world over, Sriram. Crying 'racism!' every time abuse in India gets a mention does you no credit.

Sriram

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Re: Who Do You Think You Are
« Reply #46 on: October 05, 2015, 04:07:09 PM »
It's smoke and mirrors designed to deflect our attention from how women were and are treated in parts of India.

For a short period of time I worked with two Indian ladies ( at the same time)  no idea if they came from the same part.

One was Hindu and the other was Muslim.

The thing they seemed to have in common was that had they been living in India they would have both been living with their mother in law, who apparently ruled the roost.

Both seemed to be glad to have escaped being under her thumb.

Not sure how common that is in India, to live and be told what to do by the mothering law.

It's just something they shared with me that seemed to be in their culture.
 :o


Yes Rose.  I know that in Britain and in many western countries the 'family' has lost its value. People are very self centered.   Let alone the in-laws, many people are unable to live with their own parents, husbands, wives and children.

In India it is not so.  In India as in many other traditional societies, families are still important and are very much the centre of our lives. We don't send elders to Homes run by the Govt. We keep them at home with ourselves. So....some adjustment issues will arise. That's the way families work. 

As can be expected, many western people might see their own lifestyle as more progressive, liberal and superior....but we see it as self centered and indulgent.  So....each to their own life style and way of life.  No point is trying to make them meet. 

Sriram

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Re: Who Do You Think You Are
« Reply #47 on: October 05, 2015, 04:11:19 PM »
Women are abused the world over, Sriram. Crying 'racism!' every time abuse in India gets a mention does you no credit.


I didn't cry 'racism'. There is no 'race' issue here'. You are bringing in 'race'....not me.

I knew for a fact that HH was trying to bring up issues regarding treatment of women in India by highlighting a 65 year old incident which was quite irrelevant in any context here.  You claimed his innocence....and you couldn't help yourself finally! LOL!
« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 04:14:07 PM by Sriram »

Owlswing

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Re: Who Do You Think You Are
« Reply #48 on: October 05, 2015, 04:20:53 PM »
Women are abused the world over, Sriram. Crying 'racism!' every time abuse in India gets a mention does you no credit.


I didn't cry 'racism'. There is no 'race' issue here'. You are bringing in 'race'....not me.

I knew for a fact that HH was trying to bring up issues regarding treatment of women in India by highlighting a 65 year old incident which was quite irrelevant in any context here.  You claimed his innocence....and you couldn't help yourself finally! LOL!

Sririam - you are as blind as Sassy and Alien - you can see no point of view but yoiur own.

This being the case, discussion with you is impossible and attempting it a waste of time. Wallow away in your cesspit of female degradation and pretend that it no longer exists - it is you and people like you who are ensuring that it will never become history as you will not take action to end it because you will not acknowledge that it exists. 
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Rhiannon

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Re: Who Do You Think You Are
« Reply #49 on: October 05, 2015, 04:26:13 PM »
Women are abused the world over, Sriram. Crying 'racism!' every time abuse in India gets a mention does you no credit.


I didn't cry 'racism'. There is no 'race' issue here'. You are bringing in 'race'....not me.

I knew for a fact that HH was trying to bring up issues regarding treatment of women in India by highlighting a 65 year old incident which was quite irrelevant in any context here.  You claimed his innocence....and you couldn't help yourself finally! LOL!

It's strange you find stating facts about the abuse of women so amusing.