Who created the deity?

[SwordOfTheSpirit]

#55

The universe hasn't always been there, it evolved? I don't know how it came into being, but maybe one day science with provide the answer backed up by evidence.

science, especially physics will provide answers to all our questions, eventually.

I'm interested in how you know this.

If this is a statement of fact, please present your proof below.

Alternatively, if this is your belief (hence where your faith lies), would it be correct to say that your stance is that all causes have natural explanations, known or unknown?

[Maeght]

I disagree with modern slavery but am aware that it has increased along with secularisation in this country.

Do you have any evidence of those two things being linked? OT of course but ...

[Walter]

Sword

everything we know about the nature of the universe has come about by scientific endeavour. There are various faculties within the umbrella word 'science' working on different subjects. All the findings of those will be explained by physics.

If you know of any other way tell us all now. 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Do you have any evidence of those two things being linked? OT of course but ...

I merely put it out to counter the innuendo which Be Rational has promoted.
It was once easy meat for an antitheist to conjur up slavery against religion and for the idea that now we are secular such things can no longer see the light of day.
With modern slavery, that line has been blown out of the water.
That deprivation and slavery have grown at a pace similar to secularisation is obvious, surely.

[BeRational]

Read what I wrote regarding the NT regarding slavery and the deuteronomic code.
No the bible has the NT statements and the deutoronomic code regarding fugitive slaves these are radical viewpoints in the prevailing economy driven world.

Modern slavery seems to have increased with modern secularism.
Your antislavery is rooted in Wilberforcian Christianity. The more you repudiate that the more prone the secularist becomes to modern trends.

There is no slavery in the UK.

Slavery is illegal because we think it is morally wrong.

Your god does not

[floo]

if they are Christian they believe in a creator God

Hmmmmmm, not every Christian is a Biblical literalist as I know for a fact!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

There is no slavery in the UK.

Slavery is illegal because we think it is morally wrong.

Your god does not

You are denying modern slavery is going on then.
It is illegal because of Wilberforcian Christianity.

[floo]

There is no slavery in the UK.

Slavery is illegal because we think it is morally wrong.

Your god does not

Unfortunately you are wrong, some people, often illegal migrants, are being treated as slaves by their employers here in the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/29/13000-slaves-uk-four-times-higher-previously-thought

[Maeght]

I merely put it out to counter the innuendo which Be Rational has promoted.
It was once easy meat for an antitheist to conjur up slavery against religion and for the idea that now we are secular such things can no longer see the light of day.
With modern slavery, that line has been blown out of the water.

Is that actually the line? I've not noticed anyone claim that secularism would reduce slavery. The usual omment about religion and slavery is surely that religions were seen to support the idea of slavery at some point.

That deprivation and slavery have grown at a pace similar to secularisation is obvious, surely.

Doesn't mean that they are linked. Many things have grown at a similar pace - such as radical religious beliefs for example - are they linked?

[Walter]

Why bring up slavery whats that got to do with who created the deity?

[floo]

I agree it is off topic, and maybe should be the subject of another thread.

[BeRational]

Why bring up slavery whats that got to do with who created the deity?

Because the morals on slavery match the current thinking of the time, hence when they made up their god, naturally it agreed with and endorsed the current moral thinking.

If the morality of the god was vastly different, then that would have been interesting, but it isn't.

[Walter]

heheheheh nope , me neither

[Nearly Sane]

Hmmmmmm, not every Christian is a Biblical literalist as I know for a fact!

they don't have to be. But they all believe in a creator God.

[wigginhall]

Both piracy and ice-cream consumption have increased.  Find the link!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Because the morals on slavery match the current thinking of the time, hence when they made up their god, naturally it agreed with and endorsed the current moral thinking.

If the morality of the god was vastly different, then that would have been interesting, but it isn't.

But the problem with your thesis includes your vantage point. I.e. The economic system.
Secondly you are equating the economic system with the Christian religion. Whereas it is a universal way of economic and social life.
Thirdly you completely ignore that the Christian view was to have its adherents witness the faith in the social situations they found themselves in slave owners who were converted Christians were to treat their slaves as brothers and extend basic Christian courtesy. Slave Christians were encouraged to show Christian dignity. The spiritual power given to the Christian was therefore to promote a Christian revolution rather than a socio economic one as had been tried by Spartacus and yes, manumission ideas were abroad in Christianity at the time.

[BeRational]

But the problem with your thesis includes your vantage point. I.e. The economic system.
Secondly you are equating the economic system with the Christian religion. Whereas it is a universal way of economic and social life.
Thirdly you completely ignore that the Christian view was to have its adherents witness the faith in the social situations they found themselves in slave owners who were converted Christians were to treat their slaves as brothers and extend basic Christian courtesy. Slave Christians were encouraged to show Christian dignity. The spiritual power given to the Christian was therefore to promote a Christian revolution rather than a socio economic one as had been tried by Spartacus and yes, manumission ideas were abroad in Christianity at the time.

Your god condoned slavery.

It was happy to make lots of other rules, why not condemn slavery.

You are evading the issue.

Why did your god condone rather then condemn. Does this not at least give you pause for thought?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Both piracy and ice-cream consumption have increased.  Find the link!

We know secular ice cream eating is a byword for all kinds of depravity.

[BeRational]

We know secular ice cream eating is a byword for all kinds of depravity.

Incidents of crime are higher where there are more churches, with a good correlation.

But are churches the cause? No.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Your god condoned slavery.

It was happy to make lots of other rules, why not condemn slavery.

You are evading the issue.

Why did your god condone rather then condemn. Does this not at least give you pause for thought?

No you are evading the issue of secular modern slavery.

[BeRational]

No you are evading the issue of secular modern slavery.

There is no slavery in the UK.

It has been abolished, you are confusing terms.

Find a slave in the UK

[Walter]

Churches sometimes have high steeples, I know, I've seen them.

[BeRational]

Churches sometimes have high steeples, I know, I've seen them.

But what is the link between crime and churches?

Population.

[Brownie]

There is a wealth of information on the internet regarding translation and definition of the word, "Slave", as used in the Bible, giving background and context, if anyone cares to have a look.  I was going to post extracts and links but there are so many of them I leave it up to fellow posters to decide if they are sufficiently interested.

Another word is "Eternal", as it is applied to God, but I don't think the definitions given would answer the questions posed here.

I've just seen a couple of recent posts.  There is slavery here in the UK, even though it is illegal.  Young people 'shipped' here with the promise of work and made to work as prostitutes, badly treated if they object, closely guarded.  Children brought to the UK from other countries to be servants to relatively well off people, again not well looked after, not allowed to go to school or go out and often cruelly punished for the slightest thing.  These practices, and others, are outlawed but they happen.

Link between churches and crime in cities is that they are often in deprived areas where criminal activity is high anyway.  That's why most churches are locked up like Fort Knox most of the time but there are still break-ins and things stolen.

[Maeght]

No you are evading the issue of secular modern slavery.

ANd you're linking secularism and modern slavery as if one is the result of the other without any evidence to support that.

Lets have a new thread on this as defo OT.