Newsflash

[2Corrie]

The Lord was Jewish!

Well you learn something everyday 

[trippymonkey]

So why does Christianity & Christians exist ?!!?!?

[Hope]

Jesus was Jewish, yes.

Christianity became disconnected from its roots, so lost very very much.

Crumbs from under  the table, remember?

Did it really become disconnected from its roots, Rose?  After all, the Christian Bible includes the Hebrew Bible and any serious Christian preacher will reference the Jewish context and culture of Jesus' time, yet Jesus preached to and dealt with people who weren't Jewish - such as the Roman Centurion, the Samaritan woman and the people of the Decapolis.

[trippymonkey]

One simple question......

Did Jesus preach a NEW religion ?

[Hope]

So why does Christianity & Christians exist ?!!?!?

Nick, the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible makes it very clear that the Jewish people were chosen by God to fulfill a very specific task - to be a witness (a light) to the peoples who live around them.  That they failed in this is also pretty clear from the documents.  The New Testament picks up on clues from that Hebrew Bible re-stating this task and reminding both the Jewish people and the people of the world that God loves the whole world - not just a given nation. 

As I say, God's chosen vehicle for the dissemination of this information had failed, and Christ came to remind us all and to renew the process.

Sadly, over the centuries some parts of the church have fallen into the same trap as the Jews did centuries ago and assumed that the message was only for them.

[Hope]

One simple question......

Did Jesus preach a NEW religion ?

Possibly not; rather he taught a renewed relationship.

[trippymonkey]

So did some of Jesus' time too who were NOT Jewish. The Jews acted as if it was for them & have done ever since.

Now it's the turn for Christians to 'feel superior' to all others. Only Muslims have excelled at this !!!! As taught so blatantly in The Quran !!!!

[trippymonkey]

ONCE AGAIN H
Why are you all not JEWISH ?!!?!?!

[Hope]

So did some of Jesus' time too who were NOT Jewish. The Jews acted as if it was for them & have done ever since.

Not all the Jews, Nick.  Remember that the early Church developed on the foundation of the Jewish population in many places but with an understanding that the message was for the Gentiles as well.

Now it's the turn for Christians to 'feel superior' to all others. Only Muslims have excelled at this !!!! As taught so blatantly in The Quran !!!!

Yet, there is nothing in any of Jesus' teaching, or that of any of the other New Testament authors that says that Christians should feel superior to anyone else.  If anything, the NT teaching is that Christians ought to be 'servants' - those who help others.  If anything, I think the days when the Church did feel superior are long on the wane.

[Hope]

ONCE AGAIN H
Why are you all not JEWISH ?!!?!?!

Purely and simply because of what John wrote in his Gospel - Chapter 3, verse 16 & 17.

“16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."

The Jews weren't chosen as his messengers because of anything they had done: they were chosen to be messengers.  The message is for all humanity.

[trippymonkey]

H
Please refresh me as to what part of the Jewish !!! Bible was John writing in ?

Wouldn't the Jews want to convert all NON-Jews TO Jews

[Hope]

H
Please refresh me as to what part of the Jewish !!! Bible was John writing in ?

Which part of the Jewish Bible did you think he was writing in?  What part of the Jewish Bible did I say John was writing in?

Wouldn't the Jews want to convert all NON-Jews TO Jews

Judaism isn't a proselytising faith; in order to be a true Jew one has to have Jewish blood through one's mother, so it is technically impossible to convert to Judaism.  One can return to the faith of one's forefathers if you have Jewish blood within you, but it is technically not possible for a 'pure' Gentile to become a Jew..

[trippymonkey]

Agree about the Jews etc.
NOW you said
Purely and simply because of what John wrote in his Gospel - Chapter 3, verse 16 & 17.

The Christian part of the Bible has little to NO relevance to Jews.

[Hope]

The Christian part of the Bible has little to NO relevance to Jews.

Wrong, Nick: Jesus made it very clear that what he taught had as much relevance to the Jews as it did to everyone else.  Nowhere did he suggest that what he was teaching was purely for the Gentiles; nor did he ever teach that it was purely for the Jews.  On a number of occasions he pointed out that he was 'for the world' eg I am the light of the world (John 8 ); in John 4 he says: ‘Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.’  There is no reference to a particular race or nation here.  In John 6 he says: 'For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.’  In the next chapter he says: ‘Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.’  In chapter 11 he talks about how ‘I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die.'   At no point was there a statement that any of his teaching only applied to the Jews.

I accept that several of these would have been said to Jewish people, but when the context of his teaching is taken into account - to Gentiles and to Jews - it is clear that he is saying that these are global truths for the totality of humanity.  Certainly the original apostles came to understand them as such.

[trippymonkey]

YES but MY point is Jesus wasn't creating a new religion. So-called Christians have done that in His name !!!
As I asked before, did Jesus come to create a new religion or to, if you like, refresh the old one ?
BTW The Jews, by their very existence, have proved they have no real use for the 'Christian' part of YOUR Bible. Christians would not exist otherwise.

[jeremyp]

ONCE AGAIN H
Why are you all not JEWISH ?!!?!?!

Christianity is a religion that is as much Greek as Jewish and although it arose mainly in the Jewish community - which was also Greek in character - it quickly spread to non Jewish communities. Saint Paul documents the frictions between the two branches especially in respect to circumcision and dietary laws.

Anyway, the Jewish part of the church was more or less wiped out in the 70's by the Romans along with the rest of Jerusalem

[Hope]

YES but MY point is Jesus wasn't creating a new religion. So-called Christians have done that in His name !!!

Yet people were teaching this new and or refreshed faith long before there were 'so-called Christians'. 

As I asked before, did Jesus come to create a new religion or to, if you like, refresh the old one ?

I suppose the answer to this would depend on how you define a religion.  The OED defines the term thus:

1. The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods: ideas about the relationship between science and religion

1.1 [count noun] A particular system of faith and worship: the world’s great religions

1.2 [count noun] A pursuit or interest followed with great devotion: consumerism is the new religion

Which are you opting for?  To tell you the truth, I find all three definitions somewhat inadequate because there is very little reference to 'relationship', which Jesus was really quite hot on.

The Jews, by their very existence, have proved they have no real use for the 'Christian' part of YOUR Bible. Christians would not exist otherwise.

And the relevance of that to the debate is what?

[Rhiannon]

A great piece of writing here.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/jan/09/christianity-judaism

[Hope]

Anyway, the Jewish part of the church was more or less wiped out in the 70's by the Romans along with the rest of Jerusalem

I would disagree.  Even in the early part of the 1st Century AD there were Jewish populations dotted around the Mediterranean, with their synagogues.  In fact, most of the early evangelistic work was done through these synagogues - just look at how often Paul, for one, made a beeline for 'the synagogue' when ever he arrived in a new place.  It was only after he had preached in the synagogues that he moved to other places - like the market place of the governor's office.  If you look at the early history of the Church, there were as many Jewish believers as there were Gentile believers - by no means all of them in Jerusalem.

[trippymonkey]

Relevance IS...
if the Jews had paid attention & took in all one of their own !!!! said then there'd probably be only 'Christians' around now.
These people who were preaching this refreshed religion were ALL Jews?
When exactly did these 'heretics' become Christians

[Hope]

A great piece of writing here.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/jan/09/christianity-judaism

There is nothing new here, Rhi.  Geza Vermes published a book of essays (ranging from 1970 to 2010) on this topic in 2010 ; there have been attempts by Jewish authors to 'reclaim' Jesus (their terminology) as a Jew throughout my lifetime.

Oddly enough, for all the attempts to suggest that he wasn't Jewish according to hymns and carols, those are often the places that are the most specific about his origins - 'O Little Town of Bethlehem' and 'Once in Royal David's city' spring to mind.

As for the art, the problem with the comment in the Guardian is that there are representations of Christ as a whole host of ethnicities.  He is an 'Everyman' figure in a way - taking on the form of whatever ethnic group chooses to portray him.

Finally, the suggestion that "It (Jesus was a Jew) is certainly not the view of most Christians" certainly doesn't ring true in my experience.  I have met people who don't realise that he was Jewish, but the majority of them have not been Christians, whilst the vast majority of Christians I know are pretty clear that he was a Jew.

[Hope]

Relevance IS...
if the Jews had paid attention & took in all one of their own !!!! said then there'd probably be only 'Christians' around now.

Not quite sure what you're trying to say here - its a bit garbled (lateness of the hour?).  I assume you are arguing that if all the Jews had accepted Jesus as the Messiah, then there would be no Jews around.  The answer to that is 'who knows' - after all, the fundamental truths of what Jesus taught came out of Judaism.

These people who were preaching this refreshed religion were ALL Jews?

Its hard to tell.  If the story about the woman from Samaria John 4) is anything to go by, no they weren't. 

When exactly did these 'heretics' become Christians

Tradition places the appearance of the term in Antioch somewhere between 40 and 44AD.  Note that it is generally thought to have been a derogatory name at first.

[jeremyp]

I would disagree.  Even in the early part of the 1st Century AD there were Jewish populations dotted around the Mediterranean, with their synagogues.

And yet Christianity completely ignores many Jewish religious laws. Why do you think that might be?

Clue: the Church wasn't being run by Jews.

[Hope]

And yet Christianity completely ignores many Jewish religious laws. Why do you think that might be?

We had a thread on just this topic earlier in the summer. 

Clue: the Church wasn't being run by Jews.

Interestingly, the early church was run by Jews (Peter, James, John, (sons ofZebedee) Andrew, Philip, Bartholomew/Nathaniel, Thomas, Matthew, James (son of Alphaeus), Simon the Zealot, Thaddeus-Judas, not forgetting Paul and Barnabbas) and it was they who were instrumental in pointing out that Christ had taught that he had come to fulfill the 'law', and to develop greater ones.

[Owlswing]

Jesus was Jewish, yes.

Christianity became disconnected from its roots, so lost very very much.

Crumbs from under  the table, remember?

Did it really become disconnected from its roots, Rose?  After all, the Christian Bible includes the Hebrew Bible and any serious Christian preacher will reference the Jewish context and culture of Jesus' time, yet Jesus preached to and dealt with people who weren't Jewish - such as the Roman Centurion, the Samaritan woman and the people of the Decapolis.

You have changed your tune - every time I have referenced the OT in realtion to Christian belief you have told me that Christians only relate to the NT and the OT is not relevant to Christianity!

Like I have said before - you will talk any rubbish as long as it supports your verion of Christianity.