Newsflash

[jeremyp]

You are claiming that Christianity is less discrete than denominations of other religions and yet here you are pointing out that two offshoots of Christianity: Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnessism are both so discrete that many Christians (and secular law according to you, but I have my doubts) don't regard them as being Christian sects at all.

You have just proved my point.

Except that, if you look at their histories, they are not off-shoots of Christianity.

Yes they are.

[Owlswing]

Which group are you asking me to put Pagans in ?!?!??

Whichever group honour the feminine deity equally with the male.

Why so surprised? (At least I presume that ?!?!?? represents surprise)

[trippymonkey]

Not at all surprised.
I love this kind of attitude to 'balance'.

It's just WHY some bloody religions have been so unbalanced for so many 100s if not thousands of years.
NO?

Nick

[Hope]

Yes they are.

In 1870, Charles Taze Russell and others formed a group in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, to study the Bible.  During the course of his ministry, Russell disputed many beliefs of mainstream Christianity including immortality of the soul, hellfire, predestination, the fleshly return of Jesus Christ, the Trinity, and the burning up of the world.  In 1876, Russell met Nelson H. Barbour; later that year they jointly produced the book Three Worlds, which combined restitutionist views with end time prophecy. The book taught that God's dealings with humanity were divided dispensationally, each ending with a "harvest," that Christ had returned as an invisible spirit being in 1874  inaugurating the "harvest of the Gospel age," and that 1914 would mark the end of a 2520-year period called "the Gentile Times,"  at which time world society would be replaced by the full establishment of God's kingdom on earth.  Beginning in 1878 Russell and Barbour jointly edited a religious journal, Herald of the Morning.  In June 1879 the two split over doctrinal differences, and in July, Russell began publishing the magazine Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence,  stating that its purpose was to demonstrate that the world was in "the last days," and that a new age of earthly and human restitution under the reign of Christ was imminent. 

Taking your viewpoint into account, Buddhism is merely an off-shoot of Hinduism, and Chrisrtianity is merely an off-shoot of Judaism.  The JWs have always been at odds with mainstrean Christianity, denying many, if not all of the main stances of Christianity.

The same goes for Mormonism, who only real similarity to Christianity is its use of the name Jesus Christ in its official title.  Otherwise, its teachings are often completely different to the teachings of Christ.

[OH MY WORLD!]

Floo,
What sex is this Lord you write prayers to?

[Hope]

Which group are you asking me to put Pagans in ?!?!??

Whichever group honour the feminine deity equally with the male.

So, that would mean that Paganism is pretty well equivalent to just about every other religion that has separately gendered deities.  I think I'm right in saying that the only two religions that have a non-gender specific deity are Judaism and Christianity.

[Nearly Sane]

Which group are you asking me to put Pagans in ?!?!??

Whichever group honour the feminine deity equally with the male.

So, that would mean that Paganism is pretty well equivalent to just about every other religion that has separately gendered deities.  I think I'm right in saying that the only two religions that have a non-gender specific deity are Judaism and Christianity.

Arguable that they do, and no.

[Owlswing]

Which group are you asking me to put Pagans in ?!?!??

Whichever group honour the feminine deity equally with the male.

So, that would mean that Paganism is pretty well equivalent to just about every other religion that has separately gendered deities.  I think I'm right in saying that the only two religions that have a non-gender specific deity are Judaism and Christianity.

Arguable that they do, and no.

If the Christian god is non-gender specific why is the Lod's Prayer called te Paternoster and why Our Father?

Please Hope - stop trying to convince people that your god is not male.

[Hope]

If the Christian god is non-gender specific why is the Lod's Prayer called te Paternoster and why Our Father?

Please Hope - stop trying to convince people that your god is not male.

Matt, if you look at the context in which the Lord's Prayer was introduced, the 'Father' it refers to was the Jewish God, and the Jewish God was (and is) regarded as having 144 facets; 72 of these facets are masculine in nature, 72 are feminine in nature.  Even Jesus points out that there is neither male nor female in the deity (in other words, no one aspect is prominent).

[Owlswing]

If the Christian god is non-gender specific why is the Lod's Prayer called te Paternoster and why Our Father?

Please Hope - stop trying to convince people that your god is not male.

Matt, if you look at the context in which the Lord's Prayer was introduced, the 'Father' it refers to was the Jewish God, and the Jewish God was (and is) regarded as having 144 facets; 72 of these facets are masculine in nature, 72 are feminine in nature.  Even Jesus points out that there is neither male nor female in the deity (in other words, no one aspect is prominent).

Then why, on the cross, does he ask his FATHER why he has been forsaken!

Give it up Hope you are not going to convince anyone that your god is NOT gender specific no matter how far you use your supposed total knowledge of absolutely everything to twist things.

Over the years of reading your posts I have lost all faith in your ability to accept that things are NOT as you would wish them.

[2Corrie]

So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them Gen 1:27

[Owlswing]

So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them Gen 1:27

Thsi does not change the point of my post to Hope!

It does not change the fact that the Christian churches has held the female in an inferior status for centuries - that women are still having to fight for equality in the Christian church and, regardless of Genesis the church has been rather more attentive to 1 Corinthians 14:34

In my belief both sexes are equal for one without the other is sterile.

[jeremyp]

Buddhism is merely an off-shoot of Hinduism, and Chrisrtianity is merely an off-shoot of Judaism.

Yes, I'm not sure I agree with your use of the term "merely". It seems to me to be merely an attempt to trivialise the relationship in the cause of your argument.

[Hope]

It does not change the fact that the Christian churches has held the female in an inferior status for centuries - that women are still having to fight for equality in the Christian church and, regardless of Genesis the church has been rather more attentive to 1 Corinthians 14:34

In my belief both sexes are equal for one without the other is sterile.

I see, now that your argument has been shattered, you have chosen to bring in the 'church'.  Sadly, for me, I have to agree fully with your criticism of the church.  Despite some people's understandings, I think the early church worked to be equitable, but once the paternal Roman state took over, the thinking of the church was forced to match their thinking.

[Hope]

Then why, on the cross, does he ask his FATHER why he has been forsaken!

Matt, if you look at the context in which this was said, the 'Father' it refers to was the Jewish God, and the Jewish God was (and is) regarded as having 144 facets; 72 of these facets are masculine in nature, 72 are feminine in nature.  Even Jesus points out that there is neither male nor female in the deity (in other words, no one aspect is prominent).

[Owlswing]

It does not change the fact that the Christian churches has held the female in an inferior status for centuries - that women are still having to fight for equality in the Christian church and, regardless of Genesis the church has been rather more attentive to 1 Corinthians 14:34

In my belief both sexes are equal for one without the other is sterile.

I see, now that your argument has been shattered, you have chosen to bring in the 'church'.  Sadly, for me, I have to agree fully with your criticism of the church.  Despite some people's understandings, I think the early church worked to be equitable, but once the paternal Roman state took over, the thinking of the church was forced to match their thinking.

My argument has NOT been shattered and it will not be shattered as long as Christ's words on the cross change from"Father, why hast thou forsaken me!"

Until you can somehow change those words, your God is MALE MALE MALE.

Adam's first wife left him and Eden because she refused to be subservient to man - and she was so reviled that she is referred to as the first witch - Lillith. This is NOT the Church, this is Chritianity and all your ducking, diving weaving twisting is not ever going to change that no matter how much you try to separate Christanity from the Christian church.

As I said earlier

Over the years of reading your posts I have lost all faith in your ability to accept that things are NOT as you would wish them.

[trippymonkey]

Hope
(Even Jesus points out that there is neither male nor female in the deity (in other words, no one aspect is prominent).)

This does NOT mean the same thing as your expo. Neither means exactly that - something OTHER THAN, to me. Not ALL things in perfect balance.

Nick

[Red Giant]

Taking your viewpoint into account, Buddhism is merely an off-shoot of Hinduism, and Chrisrtianity is merely an off-shoot of Judaism.  The JWs have always been at odds with mainstrean Christianity, denying many, if not all of the main stances of Christianity.

The same goes for Mormonism, who only real similarity to Christianity is its use of the name Jesus Christ in its official title.  Otherwise, its teachings are often completely different to the teachings of Christ.

You mean, the teachings of your species of church, which they claim to be the teachings of Christ.  But they would, wouldn't they.

But the only "evidence" they've got in support of that claim is their holy book, which they wrote themselves.

Not much different really.  The Mormons' claims are equally strong, or equally weak.

[ad_orientem]

Adam's first wife left him and Eden because she refused to be subservient to man - and she was so reviled that she is referred to as the first witch - Lillith.

The whole Lilith thing does not belong to Christian belief.

[Owlswing]

Adam's first wife left him and Eden because she refused to be subservient to man - and she was so reviled that she is referred to as the first witch - Lillith.

The whole Lilith thing does not belong to Christian belief.

It doesn't?

It was the same god that created Lilith that is worshipped by Christians.

You cannot claim the god of the Ot is differnt to the god of tnhe NT only when is uits your argument - he either is or isn't - he cannot be both!

The Christian religion has the biggest percentage of spin-doctors of any group except politics.

[Sassy]

Yes H, it WAS for you thanks.
Did Jesus come to make us all Christians or 'better' Jews?

Christ came with a new covenant so we are the Children of God. Where all acceptable to him whether Jew or Gentile. So the fulfillment of the New Covenant and all who are part of that new covenant are the Children of God.

[floo]

Yes H, it WAS for you thanks.
Did Jesus come to make us all Christians or 'better' Jews?

Christ came with a new covenant so we are the Children of God. Where all acceptable to him whether Jew or Gentile. So the fulfillment of the New Covenant and all who are part of that new covenant are the Children of God.

You might believe tat to be true, but where is the evidence?

[ad_orientem]

Adam's first wife left him and Eden because she refused to be subservient to man - and she was so reviled that she is referred to as the first witch - Lillith.

The whole Lilith thing does not belong to Christian belief.

It doesn't?

It was the same god that created Lilith that is worshipped by Christians.

You cannot claim the god of the Ot is differnt to the god of tnhe NT only when is uits your argument - he either is or isn't - he cannot be both!

The Christian religion has the biggest percentage of spin-doctors of any group except politics.

Lilith is belongs to Jewish mythology, nothing more.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith

[Owlswing]

Yes H, it WAS for you thanks.
Did Jesus come to make us all Christians or 'better' Jews?

Christ came with a new covenant so we are the Children of God. Where all acceptable to him whether Jew or Gentile. So the fulfillment of the New Covenant and all who are part of that new covenant are the Children of God.

You might believe tat to be true, but where is the evidence?

Honestly Floo. I am not surprised at the way in which Christians treat your posts on subjects like this.

When are you going to get off the roundabout of evidence and proof.

Religion in all its forms is a matter of faith!

You have faith that there are no gods; Christians, Jews, Mormons, Sikhs, Hindus and all the other plethora of religious belief (NOTE - BELIEF) including Pagans believe and have faith to the contrary.

Neither side - I emphasise NEITHER SIDE - yours or ours, can provide evidence or proof of our belief it is a matter of faith and no matter how many times anyone states that it is a fact, again on either side of the divide, to consider it so is a delusion.

My belief is faith - as far as I am concerned it is highly likely that no-one, neither theist or atheist, will ever, in my lifetime or yours, be able to provide proof or evidence.

This constant going round and round in circles of "Prove it/provide evidence - No, you provide proof/evidence" has only one outcome, that of us rotating in ever-decreasing circles at ever-increasing speeds until we disappear up our own fundaments in a shower of orange pips.

And, before the inevitable post from one of our Christian bretheren, their Bible is NOT either proof or evidence.

[BashfulAnthony]

Yes H, it WAS for you thanks.
Did Jesus come to make us all Christians or 'better' Jews?

Christ came with a new covenant so we are the Children of God. Where all acceptable to him whether Jew or Gentile. So the fulfillment of the New Covenant and all who are part of that new covenant are the Children of God.

You might believe tat to be true, but where is the evidence?

Honestly Floo. I am not surprised at the way in which Christians treat your posts on subjects like this.

When are you going to get off the roundabout of evidence and proof.

Religion in all its forms is a matter of faith!

You have faith that there are no gods; Christians, Jews, Mormons, Sikhs, Hindus and all the other plethora of religious belief (NOTE - BELIEF) including Pagans believe and have faith to the contrary.

Neither side - I emphasise NEITHER SIDE - yours or ours, can provide evidence or proof of our belief it is a matter of faith and no matter how many times anyone states that it is a fact, again on either side of the divide, to consider it so is a delusion.

My belief is faith - as far as I am concerned it is highly likely that no-one, neither theist or atheist, will ever, in my lifetime or yours, be able to provide proof or evidence.

This constant going round and round in circles of "Prove it/provide evidence - No, you provide proof/evidence" has only one outcome, that of us rotating in ever-decreasing circles at ever-increasing speeds until we disappear up our own fundaments in a shower of orange pips.

And, before the inevitable post from one of our Christian bretheren, their Bible is NOT either proof or evidence.

Help me!!  I largely agree with that!!