The return of Ched Evans

[Brownie]

Hippy type era?  I also heard of things like that, orgies etc.  Someone on another forum, long time ago, was part of a commune and described it.  (NB, I do know not all 'hippy types' took part in orgies.)
Can't see Evans and the other guy as hippy types though.  I wonder how all this would have panned out if they hadn't been in the footballing world with no media interest?

[wigginhall]

No, I'm talking about working class kids, you know, bricklayers and so on.   

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

One of my close friends described taking part in a sex session with 2 men she met while travelling on her gap year - so Middle Class types were up for it too. I don't remember her saying she was drunk. Clever girl - became a City solicitor.

[jeremyp]

In that case what should not be in dispute is that the girl and the two men are all assholes, unless her drink really was spiked.

Knowing that alcohol impairs your judgment, she made the decision to get drunk, put herself at risk of meeting an asshole, and then decided she wanted to climb into a taxi with said asshole - a man she had never met before - and go have sex with Clayton McDonald, who was also under the influence. Neither Clayton McDonald or Ched Evans are responsible for her poor decision-making - otherwise that would set back the equality of women if we treat them like children who are incapable of making decisions about not drinking too much because it makes them hornier than they would have been if they were sober.

Being drunk doesn't make her an arsehole. If the footballers had done the right thing which  is not to take advantage of somebody who is drunk (especially when Ched Evans already had a girlfriend), none of this would ever have happened. Please stop blaming the victim.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

The footballers were drunk - their judgment was impaired and they engaged in risky behaviour including unprotected sex, including oral sex on a woman who had just had another man inside her.

She was drunk, her judgment was impaired and she engaged in risky behaviour - asking to go home with a man she just met and having unprotected sex with him and his mate.

That's all we know for sure.

Ched Evans cheated but his girlfriend appears to have got over it for some strange reason - maybe because he was drunk, maybe because she felt sorry for him, who knows - I certainly don't know what she gets out of getting back into a relationship with him.

Ched Evans was convicted of a crime, served time in prison, lost earnings, lost opportunities and will get abuse from rowdy football fans every time he plays.

The girl has had to move away from home and faced online abuse from trolls.

Why did you say victim in the singular?  There were 2 victims of drunkeness - 3 if you count Clayton McDonald - and yes I blame all 3 of them for getting too drunk to make good decisions but it wasn't their fault it went to a rape trial - the CPS decided that when they decided that if a woman states she could not remember consenting, she was too drunk to consent.

[jeremyp]

The footballers were drunk - their judgment was impaired and they engaged in risky behaviour including unprotected sex, including oral sex on a woman who had just had another man inside her.

She was drunk, her judgment was impaired and she engaged in risky behaviour - asking to go home with a man she just met and having unprotected sex with him and his mate.

That's all we know for sure.

Ched Evans cheated but his girlfriend appears to have got over it for some strange reason - maybe because he was drunk, maybe because she felt sorry for him, who knows - I certainly don't know what she gets out of getting back into a relationship with him.

Ched Evans was convicted of a crime, served time in prison, lost earnings, lost opportunities and will get abuse from rowdy football fans every time he plays.

The girl has had to move away from home and faced online abuse from trolls.

Why did you say victim in the singular?  There were 2 victims of drunkeness - 3 if you count Clayton McDonald - and yes I blame all 3 of them for getting too drunk to make good decisions but it wasn't their fault it went to a rape trial - the CPS decided that when they decided that if a woman states she could not remember consenting, she was too drunk to consent.

I've been pretty drunk on occasion. I've met drunk women but I've never felt the need to take advantage o a woman's inebriation in the way Shed Evans did.

Like I said earlier: you can be an arsehole without breaking the law.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

I've been pretty drunk on occasion. I've met drunk women but I've never felt the need to take advantage o a woman's inebriation in the way Shed Evans did.

Like I said earlier: you can be an arsehole without breaking the law.

Who said they took advantage of her. Maybe she enjoyed the sex at the time, given what she is supposed to have said during sex. How were they supposed to know she wouldn't remember she had a good time in the morning?

Some people need to be pretty drunk to let their inhibitions go and have a good time. How is a man or woman supposed to differentiate between those who want to lower their inhibitions, who can willingly get into a cab, collect a pizza etc, have sex with a stranger and those who are being taken advantage of?. Is a woman going to be accused of taking advantage of a drunk man?

[Brownie]

I've been pretty drunk on occasion. I've met drunk women but I've never felt the need to take advantage o a woman's inebriation in the way Shed Evans did.

Like I said earlier: you can be an arsehole without breaking the law.

Yes, there are plenty of men who just would not,  Full Stop.  Also many would find a drunken woman distasteful.

I've been drunk too and done and said things I regretted.  Once, when I was young, I fell into a deep sleep and when I woke up I honestly did not know if anything bad had happened.  it's frightening to think of now but at least I didn't see my face in the newspaper afterwards.

There's something about this sorry story that makes me want to weep, the thought of these young people  who behaved badly and stupidly more than five years ago, in an unrelenting and unforgiving spotlight.

[floo]

Fortunately I have never been drunk in my life. Drink is not a good bed fellow with sexual activity, imo.

[Owlswing]

Yes, there are plenty of men who just would not,  Full Stop.  Also many would find a drunken woman distasteful.

I've been drunk too and done and said things I regretted.  Once, when I was young, I fell into a deep sleep and when I woke up I honestly did not know if anything bad had happened.  it's frightening to think of now but at least I didn't see my face in the newspaper afterwards.

There's something about this sorry story that makes me want to weep, the thought of these young people  who behaved badly and stupidly more than five years ago, in an unrelenting and unforgiving spotlight.

Which, maybe, is a good thing if it prevents even one girl/woman from winding up in the same situation.

I, for one, do NOT believe that drunken consent is still consent.

[Nearly Sane]

Which, maybe, is a good thing if it prevents even one girl/woman from winding up in the same situation.

I, for one, do NOT believe that drunken consent is still consent.

So what blood alcohol level do I have to ensure people who I have sex with are under when I breathalyse them after gaining consent for sex?

[floo]

So what blood alcohol level do I have to ensure people who I have sex with are under when I breathalyse them after gaining consent for sex?

Surely it isn't difficult to tell if someone is drunk or not!

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Lots of people up and down the country have been having sex after getting drunk - men and women. They like it that way. They wake up afterwards and might think "what the hell just happened" or "did anything happen?"  or if they don't fancy the person in the cold light of soberness "what the hell was I thinking?!" and they chalk it up to experience.

Have all these men and women been raped, been assholes or made a mistake?

[Nearly Sane]

Surely it isn't difficult to tell if someone is drunk or not!

drunk is a continuum, not a binary position. Quite often both parties will be drunk, or perhaps even indulged in party pharmaceuticals.

[floo]

Well what do I know having never been drunk, or been in close company of anyone who was.

[BeRational]

Well what do I know having never been drunk, or been in close company of anyone who was.

You seem to have led a very sheltered life.

[floo]

You seem to have led a very sheltered life.

Yeh right, I doubt it! My life has been in grave danger, often due to my own stupidity, more times than I care to count!