Attitudes and behaviour.

[Aruntraveller]

So had you lived in previous times the Earth was flat - fact.

Argument from numbers proves nothing.

Your posts prove even less.

Not going to allow you to move the goal post. BA was right. You mocked the truth he told you. Your ignorance is staggeringly deafening... Want to take time out and see if you can bring yourself back into this reality.

PMSL - for you to define my ignorance as staggeringly deafening is complimentary on levels you can't even understand.

I see you are intellectually challenged  so did not  understand the sound of ignorance being deafening.... I wrongly assumed you were educated enough to know the original saying which my comment referred to. Seems you were limited in your knowledge and had you not been you could have saved yourself the embarrassment of admitting you pissed yourself laughing because your ignorance.

Even more embarrassing the fact the joke is on yourself.

Should have took time to think about it.

Once again I have to change my underpants. To be called intellectually challenged by such an enlightened, logical and intelligent person as yourself is truly humbling.

PS You are wrong about Soccer though. Football was referred to by both the names "football" and "soccer" in this country, football is now the more predominant name though.

But I expect you were too busy thinking about things on a higher plane than to bother about the mundane, oh great guru.

[Owlswing]

The feigned injury was nothing more than a ruse to get him off the pitch

I agree. But he did feign an injury and he was therefore doing the opposite of trying to convince the referee that he was not hurt.

All he had to do was to show that he was bleeding, not that he had suffered an injury like a broken bone, a twisted ankle, he just had to show blood and, thanks to the H & S rules, he had to leave the field and be substituted.

He did not roll around on the floor in simulated agony.

However I don't think that this is the kind of feigned injury that happens in virtually every game of Soccer, in the so-called Top Flighyt, anyway.

AS you say "a flippant comment from another flippant comment" - the incident has not, as far as I am aware ever been repeated.

The most interesting thing that I have seen in soccer this season is Jose trying to explain why Chelsea have been shit so far!

It's called football, Matt. Soccer's an American sport. 

Actually - no. It was called Soccer here - from Association Football. The Americans call it soccer because they refer to Gridiron as football.

You are wrong.. Football has always been football here. The Americans called it soccer. They obviously could not  tell the difference between our football and Rugby. As for baseball is basically our rounders played by women in this country.

I suppose basketball another version of our netball. I was captain of both our netball and rounders team before I left school.

I remember years ago Frank Bough talking to the Osmond Family, He asked them what they thought of English football. Maria Osmond replied; You mean soccer and he instantly replied... NO, I mean football.

Because it is football...

Wrong - Soccer - fron Association football to differenciate it from Rugby football!

[Aruntraveller]

For info from Wiki:

Association football, more commonly known as football or soccer,[3] is a sport played between two teams of eleven players with a spherical ball. It is played by 250 million players in over 200 countries, making it the world's most popular sport.[4][5][6][7] The game is played on a rectangular field with a goal at each end. The object of the game is to score by getting the ball into the opposing goal.

[ippy]

All we get on here is pedantic, presumptuous comment, with no regard for the sincere beliefs of other human beings

Ah your talking about others?

For me that sums up your own comments but years of experience dealing with you tells me that like other (mainly fundies) you can't see your own obnoxious replies and often snide comments.

Of course like Sass, CM oh and of course Vlad it doesn't matter how many people tell you your wrong or being a idiot it's always their fault not yours 

the constant infantile use of terms like, "magic," fairies," "spaghetti monsters," etc. 

I'm sure the believers of magic, fairies and spaghetti monsters get the same ridicule but if your going to come out with nonsense as you do that can't back up your beliefs then I don't know how you expect others to take them seriously?

Seeing that atheists get much the same abuse maybe the answer to your problem is grow a set of f off.. just a suggestion 

I don't have a problem  -  it is the likes of you who have the problem, that's why you spend your days denying its existence.

Why would anybody that thinks the whole idea of god or gods is only for deluded people, want to deny the existence of something that's not there in the first place; I'm not denying the existence any kind of god, they don't exist in the first place to deny, other than in peoples minds. Unless, of course, you can prove me wrong which would be necessary due to the present lack of credible evidence, like zero evidence, to support this cranky idea of yours BA.

ippy
ippy   

The truth in your case is twofold.

A. You do not seek or want to know the one and only true God, so why would you need evidence?

B. The bible clearly expresses that those who seek God with a good heart finds him.

So the reality is that you, Ippy, have no idea what the bible says. And cannot find proof because you don't want it. But you cannot dismiss the beliefs of those who have when you have neither the knowledge or want to know God.

That sums it up!

Hi there Sass I would have given you some much needed guidance earlier, shame about the break.

Now, you're right why would I want to know about something like this god idea of yours that, has as near to zero as you can get chance, of a probability of ever having existed.

Well you talk about this god idea in your head as though it, whatever it might be really exists, all without a scrap of evidence that might make this idea of yours show that you're not just another god head babbling on about a load of rubbishy, magical, mythical superstition based  beliefs.

Im sure your manual does say "those who seek God with a good heart finds him", there's no good reason to seek anything that's odds on non-existent in the first place, again no evidence that would support this unlikely idea/belief.

If there were evidence found that conclusively supports your idea/belief that there is something referred to as god it would be very much in my interests to learn all that I could about this god thing/idea, even if it meant reading/studying  the manual.

Again since you have zero evidence that could or would support your ideas/belief in this superstition based magical, mythical whatever it is thing you refer to as god, I don't think it's worth the bother at the moment thank you Sass.

It is fascinating to think and then see that there really are still people about, that are so totally taken in by such a load of old cobblers/nonsense.

ippy

[Sassy]

Once again I have to change my underpants. To be called intellectually challenged by such an enlightened, logical and intelligent person as yourself is truly humbling.

Sarcasm...the lowest form of wit.  And if wit was shit you would be constipated so find it hard to believe your underpants required a change.

PS You are wrong about Soccer though. Football was referred to by both the names "football" and "soccer" in this country, football is now the more predominant name though.

Not wrong at all.. Football has always ORIGINALLY been called football here.
Soccer is the Americans word for it.

But I expect you were too busy thinking about things on a higher plane than to bother about the mundane, oh great guru.

I have family who were football fans from it's start and so have a clearer notion and idea of what it was originally called. However it had many forms before the present day one. But my mothers family have been supporters since it became a known game in the 1800's. My family have been supporters of United since they first began my grandmother born in 1910 became a season ticket holder having watched with her Mother and grandparents since she was born.

I think Scotland was where the first real football started and I could be wrong. But soccer is not really English in that the Americans took it from here and obviously changed the  name because of their American football. I think the words foot and ball give the game it's original name and reason it was called so,

You and I, know only what we are told. But my family know from their own personal history and love of football that they have always known it as, and called it football for generations.

One of my mothers ex-boyfriends was Dennis Viollet.
Look him up....  My family have a long history with football.

[Owlswing]

Once again I have to change my underpants. To be called intellectually challenged by such an enlightened, logical and intelligent person as yourself is truly humbling.

Sarcasm...the lowest form of wit.  And if wit was shit you would be constipated so find it hard to believe your underpants required a change.

PS You are wrong about Soccer though. Football was referred to by both the names "football" and "soccer" in this country, football is now the more predominant name though.

Not wrong at all.. Football has always ORIGINALLY been called football here.
Soccer is the Americans word for it.

But I expect you were too busy thinking about things on a higher plane than to bother about the mundane, oh great guru.

I have family who were football fans from it's start and so have a clearer notion and idea of what it was originally called. However it had many forms before the present day one. But my mothers family have been supporters since it became a known game in the 1800's. My family have been supporters of United since they first began my grandmother born in 1910 became a season ticket holder having watched with her Mother and grandparents since she was born.

I think Scotland was where the first real football started and I could be wrong. But soccer is not really English in that the Americans took it from here and obviously changed the  name because of their American football. I think the words foot and ball give the game it's original name and reason it was called so,

You and I, know only what we are told. But my family know from their own personal history and love of football that they have always known it as, and called it football for generations.

One of my mothers ex-boyfriends was Dennis Viollet.
Look him up....  My family have a long history with football.

  I could be wrong.

Too right you might!

More often than not, quite frankly, especially in matters of believing that faith is the same as fact and that the bible is the unvarnished word of god and the ultimate truth.

Either you are a BA clone or he is a Sassy clone!

Neither of you can accept even the remote possibility that you could be in error on anything - if arrogance was wealth you two would own the world! And that would be a real disaster. For everyone other than you two.

[ippy]

Once again I have to change my underpants. To be called intellectually challenged by such an enlightened, logical and intelligent person as yourself is truly humbling.

Sarcasm...the lowest form of wit.  And if wit was shit you would be constipated so find it hard to believe your underpants required a change.

PS You are wrong about Soccer though. Football was referred to by both the names "football" and "soccer" in this country, football is now the more predominant name though.

Not wrong at all.. Football has always ORIGINALLY been called football here.
Soccer is the Americans word for it.

But I expect you were too busy thinking about things on a higher plane than to bother about the mundane, oh great guru.

I have family who were football fans from it's start and so have a clearer notion and idea of what it was originally called. However it had many forms before the present day one. But my mothers family have been supporters since it became a known game in the 1800's. My family have been supporters of United since they first began my grandmother born in 1910 became a season ticket holder having watched with her Mother and grandparents since she was born.

I think Scotland was where the first real football started and I could be wrong. But soccer is not really English in that the Americans took it from here and obviously changed the  name because of their American football. I think the words foot and ball give the game it's original name and reason it was called so,

You and I, know only what we are told. But my family know from their own personal history and love of football that they have always known it as, and called it football for generations.

One of my mothers ex-boyfriends was Dennis Viollet.
Look him up....  My family have a long history with football.

Quite a rational post about football there Sass, it shows that you can be rational, pitty the rational so rarely comes from your direction.

Ippy.

[jeremyp]

Not wrong at all.. Football has always ORIGINALLY been called football here.
Soccer is the Americans word for it.

Football has, but football in the 19th century meant many things including what we now call rugby. Soccer is a word meant specifically to describe one particular variety called "association football". "Soccer" as a word to describe the specific game we now call football predates the current usage of "football".

The word "soccer" was invented in England in the latter half of the 19th century.

[ProfessorDavey]

The feigned injury was nothing more than a ruse to get him off the pitch

I agree. But he did feign an injury and he was therefore doing the opposite of trying to convince the referee that he was not hurt.

All he had to do was to show that he was bleeding, not that he had suffered an injury like a broken bone, a twisted ankle, he just had to show blood and, thanks to the H & S rules, he had to leave the field and be substituted.

He did not roll around on the floor in simulated agony.

However I don't think that this is the kind of feigned injury that happens in virtually every game of Soccer, in the so-called Top Flighyt, anyway.

AS you say "a flippant comment from another flippant comment" - the incident has not, as far as I am aware ever been repeated.

The most interesting thing that I have seen in soccer this season is Jose trying to explain why Chelsea have been shit so far!

It's called football, Matt. Soccer's an American sport. 

Actually - no. It was called Soccer here - from Association Football. The Americans call it soccer because they refer to Gridiron as football.

You are wrong.. Football has always been football here. The Americans called it soccer. They obviously could not  tell the difference between our football and Rugby. As for baseball is basically our rounders played by women in this country.

I suppose basketball another version of our netball. I was captain of both our netball and rounders team before I left school.

I remember years ago Frank Bough talking to the Osmond Family, He asked them what they thought of English football. Maria Osmond replied; You mean soccer and he instantly replied... NO, I mean football.

Because it is football...

Wrong - Soccer - fron Association football to differenciate it from Rugby football!

Give that football is a game played by people kicking a ball with their foot it is pretty self evident that the name appropriately applies to football in a manner that it doesn't to either rugby or american football, which are games predominantly played with ball on hand (not on foot).

And given that football has been played for centuries, and centuries before either rugby or american football appeared, so the need to differentiate in the name is moot.

But actually I can't think of a single football fan who refers to their game as 'soccer' - indeed the only people who talk about soccer tend to be people who have no interest in the game whatsoever, and perhaps are rugby fans or american. So trying to redefine football as soccer really is the tail wagging the dog - i.e. fans of other sports which do not have the global presence of football trying to differentiate the global game (football) from their minority sports which erroneously use the term football even through they are predominantly played with foot to ball.

Sorry but it has to work the other way around. Football is football - the other minority sports need to differentiate themselves from football (if there is confusion), not the other way around.

[Sassy]

Too right you might!

More often than not, quite frankly, especially in matters of believing that faith is the same as fact and that the bible is the unvarnished word of god and the ultimate truth.

Either you are a BA clone or he is a Sassy clone!

Neither of you can accept even the remote possibility that you could be in error on anything - if arrogance was wealth you two would own the world! And that would be a real disaster. For everyone other than you two.

Matthew Hopkins,

I see you have returned to an older name of  yours.

I see you defer on to myself and BA, your own incapability of believing you could be in error.  If you call faith arrogance then one can only assume that you are far wealthier than BA and I, in your arrogance.

The difference is BA and I, both discuss what we believe with the support of Christ and the bible. However, you have no grounds except your own personal choices. Now that is the real example of arrogance by an individual.

[jeremyp]

Give that football is a game played by people kicking a ball with their foot it is pretty self evident that the name appropriately applies to football in a manner that it doesn't to either rugby or american football, which are games predominantly played with ball on hand (not on foot).

That may be true now, but in the 19th century, there were many games called "football". "Soccer" is a term used to refer to one of the many varieties, one in which (unusually) you weren't allowed to pick the ball up.

And given that football has been played for centuries, and centuries before either rugby or american football appeared, so the need to differentiate in the name is moot.

The modern rules of football were codified in 1863. Prior to that, there were many different versions and the idea that there was a "one true football" where you couldn't pick the ball up is false.

Sorry but it has to work the other way around. Football is football - the other minority sports need to differentiate themselves from football (if there is confusion), not the other way around.

I would suggest that is the current state of affairs everywhere in the World except the USA.

[ProfessorDavey]

Give that football is a game played by people kicking a ball with their foot it is pretty self evident that the name appropriately applies to football in a manner that it doesn't to either rugby or american football, which are games predominantly played with ball on hand (not on foot).

That may be true now, but in the 19th century, there were many games called "football". "Soccer" is a term used to refer to one of the many varieties, one in which (unusually) you weren't allowed to pick the ball up.

And given that football has been played for centuries, and centuries before either rugby or american football appeared, so the need to differentiate in the name is moot.

The modern rules of football were codified in 1863. Prior to that, there were many different versions and the idea that there was a "one true football" where you couldn't pick the ball up is false.

Sorry but it has to work the other way around. Football is football - the other minority sports need to differentiate themselves from football (if there is confusion), not the other way around.

I would suggest that is the current state of affairs everywhere in the World except the USA.

Regarding the history of the game - sure there were versions where you could pick up the ball - just as is the case now for the goalkeeper in their area. But self evidently any game that can realistically call itself football must largely involve foot to ball. And of course many of those earlier games did largely involve foot to ball, although throwing might have been allowed. And were played with a round ball. This is very different to rugby and american football where ball in hand predominates and the ball is shaped specifically to discourage kicking.

Sure the modern rules were codified in 1863, but this didn't suddenly create a new game, rather it codified a pre-existing game. Indeed there are earlier codes, e.g. the Cambridge code with are very similar to the codified version of 1863, and they were also based on earlier games.

[Aruntraveller]

For info from Wiki:

Association football, more commonly known as football or soccer,[3] is a sport played between two teams of eleven players with a spherical ball. It is played by 250 million players in over 200 countries, making it the world's most popular sport.[4][5][6][7] The game is played on a rectangular field with a goal at each end. The object of the game is to score by getting the ball into the opposing goal.

I obviously need to repost this for the benefit of those who are somewhat challenged by the task of comprehension.

[Aruntraveller]

Sassy said:

Soccer is the Americans word for it.

Would you like to rethink that darling?

The word soccer comes from an abbreviation for Association (from Association Football, the ‘official’ name for the game) plus the addition of the suffix –er. This suffix (originally Rugby School slang, and then adopted by Oxford University), was appended to ‘shortened’ nouns, in order to form jocular words. Rugger is probably the most common example, but other examples included in the Oxford English Dictionary are brekker (for breakfast), bonner (for bonfire), and cupper (a series of intercollegiate matches played in competition for a cup).

From here: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/words/whats-the-origin-of-the-word-soccer

You'll note that it was British universities that invented the words rugger and soccer. No need to apologise - glad to help you to come to a new understanding of the origin of these words.

[jeremyp]

Regarding the history of the game - sure there were versions where you could pick up the ball - just as is the case now for the goalkeeper in their area. But self evidently any game that can realistically call itself football must largely involve foot to ball.

Unfortunately, in this case, history pisses on "self evident". The fact is that modern association football is a relatively recent invention and that most games called "football" in history had rules that allowed everybody to pick up the ball.

"Soccer" is a term that arose in Britain to distinguish Association Football from all the other versions. It's not wrong to call football soccer, and it is not an Americanism.

[jeremyp]

Since we are talking about origins of various football games, here is an article on the legend of William Webb Ellis

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/rugby-world-cup/11843540/Rugby-World-Cup-William-Webb-Ellis-is-King-Arthur-figure-whose-reputation-as-games-inventor-may-be-a-myth.html

[ProfessorDavey]

Unfortunately, in this case, history pisses on "self evident". The fact is that modern association football is a relatively recent invention and that most games called "football" in history had rules that allowed everybody to pick up the ball.

I disagree - if a word is a derivation of 'foot' and 'ball' and is a sport of game, self evidently it best applies to a game that predominantly uses the foot to move the ball. And actually many of the earlier games leading up to the codification had a key element that prevented running with the ball or passing from hand to hand. So although players were allowed to catch the ball, then then needed to pass by kicking the ball. Sure there is an evolution from that to the codified version (which was an evolution not a revolution), but the difference between those games and, for example, rugby is clear - that is a completely different game in which the key elements are passing the ball from hand to hand and running with the ball.

Hence the oft used quote about Webb Ellis as a boy "who with a fine disregard for the rules of football as played in his time, first took the ball in his arms and ran with it"

"Soccer" is a term that arose in Britain to distinguish Association Football from all the other versions. It's not wrong to call football soccer, and it is not an Americanism.

I agree it isn't american in derivation, but actually associated with a public school Oxbridge slang - akin to rugger, Johnners, Blowers etc etc. And although football did evolve within an elite setting rapidly it became the game of the masses. And I think this may also be a reason why football fans across the decades have hated the term soccer. For a working class man from Sheffield I imagine using the slang of the Oxbridge elite must have sat pretty ill.

[ippy]

The Australians use football to describe their version of rugby league and their own Aussie rules football although it's still a version of football it's usually referred to as "Aussie rules", then our version of football is called soccer.

Anyway that's how my, now rather large, Australian family refer to those games.

They don't mention cricket to me because they know it induces severe attacks of narcolepsy.

ippy

[jeremyp]

I disagree - if a word is a derivation of 'foot' and 'ball' and is a sport of game, self evidently it best applies to a game that predominantly uses the foot to move the ball.

It doesn't matter whether it is best applied or not. The fact is that the term football has always been applied to games where you were allowed to handle the ball. It's still applied to games where you are allowed to handle the ball e.g. Rugby Football (two codes), American Football, Gaelic Football, Australian Rules Football.

Hence the oft used quote about Webb Ellis as a boy "who with a fine disregard for the rules of football as played in his time, first took the ball in his arms and ran with it"

Ironically the rule he actually broke was not handling it but running with it and it wasn't actually Webb Ellis.

[ProfessorDavey]

I disagree - if a word is a derivation of 'foot' and 'ball' and is a sport of game, self evidently it best applies to a game that predominantly uses the foot to move the ball.

It doesn't matter whether it is best applied or not. The fact is that the term football has always been applied to games where you were allowed to handle the ball. It's still applied to games where you are allowed to handle the ball e.g. Rugby Football (two codes), American Football, Gaelic Football, Australian Rules Football.

Hence the oft used quote about Webb Ellis as a boy "who with a fine disregard for the rules of football as played in his time, first took the ball in his arms and ran with it"

Ironically the rule he actually broke was not handling it but running with it and it wasn't actually Webb Ellis.

I think you are rather drifting away from the point. That was the suggestion that football should be called soccer rather than, well, football.

And you will note that with the exception of american football, which due to the historical lack of proper football in the USA has come to be called just football there, the rest are never really referred to merely as 'football', but (at best) as 'something' football, as opposed to football (i.e. association football) which is known pretty well everywhere as just 'football' - and quite rightly too.

And the issue isn't whether you can handle the ball - actually within the rules (goalkeeper in the area) this is still part of the modern football game. No the key difference is the primary method to move ball from player to player - in football this is by kicking the ball (hence football) and was always the major route for transferring the ball between players even before codification, even if the ball was allowed to be caught and then kicked on to the next player. That is entirely different to rugby and american football where there main method of moving the ball is by passing from the hand to the hand.

[jeremyp]

I think you are rather drifting away from the point. That was the suggestion that football should be called soccer rather than, well, football.

[/quote]
Nobody suggested that. Somebody suggested it shouldn't be called that, on the grounds that it is an Americanism. Then several other people pointed out that it is not an Americanism and it is fine to call it that.

[Rhiannon]

Blimey, I only posted on Matt calling football 'soccer' because elsewhere on the same day we'd been discussing his low opinions of our cousins across the pond and I was pulling his leg. It's really not a big deal.

[ProfessorDavey]

I think you are rather drifting away from the point. That was the suggestion that football should be called soccer rather than, well, football.

Nobody suggested that.
[/quote]Yes they did - owlswing - which was the start of the whole discussion.

And my earliest posts on the matter suggested that those that insist on calling the sport soccer (unless they are american) tend to do so because they aren't fans and often in a somewhat derogatory manner. Which was exactly the case in his post.

[Owlswing]

Jesus H fucking Kerist!

This place can be incredible! A 15 page thread most of which is dedicated to the definition of a word describing a game that pulls in enough money to pay stupid salaries to men who can kick a football but are virtually incapable of stringing together a cogent sentence!

It produces enough money to allow BRIBES that are big enough to make a very large dent in world poverty and what are 15 pages about?

Arguing over what the game is called in the UK.

I couldn't, to be honest, really give tuppeny damn what it is called except, perhaps, obscene in the amounts of money that allow those playing the game to live a life-style that most of the working people who pay their wages can only dream of.

Players are bought and sold - once upon a time if you bought or sold someone it was called slavery, but these poeople live like kings while there are kids who are homeless and starvng runnig up to the annual explosion of expediture that is called Christmas.

One weeks salary donarted by every soingle palyer in the Football Leagues four divisions could feed and clothe those kids for the whole following year!

Are they likely to ever do it?

I didn't post the cokmment about Soccer/Football in a derogatory manner, it was NOT the case in my post!

But the above is derogatory and those mentioned surely deserve derogation.
   

[Owlswing]

Matthew Hopkins,

I see you have returned to an older name of  yours.

So what?

As to the rest of your post - do you really think that I care what you and BA think of my religious beliefs?

Yoiu consider them wrong - just as I consider yours to be rubbish - and as usual you and BA resport to insult when your values or comments upon any subject are questioned. Your god might, to you, be perfect, you and BA most certainly are not.