Attitudes and behaviour.

[jeremyp]

Jesus H fucking Kerist!

This place can be incredible! A 15 page thread most of which is dedicated to the definition of a word describing a game that pulls in enough money to pay stupis salaries to men who can kick a football but are virtually incapable of strining together a cogrnt sentence!

Be honest though, it is more interesting than listening to Bashful Anthony rant on about how we should have a set of rules that he, himself, can't keep.

[Leonard James]

Jesus H fucking Kerist!

This place can be incredible! A 15 page thread most of which is dedicated to the definition of a word describing a game that pulls in enough money to pay stupis salaries to men who can kick a football but are virtually incapable of strining together a cogrnt sentence!

It produces enough money to allow BRIBES that are big enough to make a very large dent in world poverty and what are 15 pages about?

Arguing over what the game is called in the UK.

I couldn't, to be honest, really give tuppeny damn what it is called except, perhaps, obscene in the amounts of money that allow those playing the game to live a life-style that most of the working people who pay their wages can only dream of.

Players are bought and sold - once upon a time if you bought or sold someone it was called slavery, but these poeople live like kings while there are kids who are homeless and starvng runnig up to the annual explosion of expediture that is called Christmas.

One weeks salary donarted by every soingle palyer in the Football Leagues four divisions could feed and clothe those kids for the whole following year!

Are they likely to ever do it?

I didn't post the cokmment about Soccer/Football in a derogatory manner, it was NOT the case in my post!

But the above is derogatory and those mentioned surely deserve derogation.
 

I sympathise and identify entirely with what you say, but I'm afraid that's the way humans are.  We have evolved with the natural instinct to survive at all costs, and in general to put our families before everyone else.

Some people are more conscious of the plight of others and do what they can to help, but on the whole we are a selfish lot. We have dreamed up high ideals, totally ignoring the fact that nature has not equipped us to carry them through. All we can do is our best, but it will never be enough to solve our problems completely.

[jeremyp]

Yes they did - owlswing - which was the start of the whole discussion.

You're going to have to point out the post in which he said that, because I can't find it. I did find a couple of posts in which he called it soccer and posts in which he defended his use of the term, but no posts in which he claimed everybody should call it soccer.

And my earliest posts on the matter suggested that those that insist on calling the sport soccer (unless they are american) tend to do so because they aren't fans and often in a somewhat derogatory manner. Which was exactly the case in his post.

It's clearly true in his case that he has a low opinion of football but I've never met anybody who insists on calling football soccer, so I can't comment on the general case.

[Owlswing]

Jesus H fucking Kerist!

This place can be incredible! A 15 page thread most of which is dedicated to the definition of a word describing a game that pulls in enough money to pay stupis salaries to men who can kick a football but are virtually incapable of strining together a cogrnt sentence!

It produces enough money to allow BRIBES that are big enough to make a very large dent in world poverty and what are 15 pages about?

Arguing over what the game is called in the UK.

I couldn't, to be honest, really give tuppeny damn what it is called except, perhaps, obscene in the amounts of money that allow those playing the game to live a life-style that most of the working people who pay their wages can only dream of.

Players are bought and sold - once upon a time if you bought or sold someone it was called slavery, but these poeople live like kings while there are kids who are homeless and starvng runnig up to the annual explosion of expediture that is called Christmas.

One weeks salary donarted by every soingle palyer in the Football Leagues four divisions could feed and clothe those kids for the whole following year!

Are they likely to ever do it?

I didn't post the cokmment about Soccer/Football in a derogatory manner, it was NOT the case in my post!

But the above is derogatory and those mentioned surely deserve derogation.
 

I sympathise and identify entirely with what you say, but I'm afraid that's the way humans are.  We have evolved with the natural instinct to survive at all costs, and in general to put our families before everyone else.

Some people are more conscious of the plight of others and do what they can to help, but on the whole we are a selfish lot. We have dreamed up high ideals, totally ignoring the fact that nature has not equipped us to carry them through. All we can do is our best, but it will never be enough to solve our problems completely.

Regrettably - too true!

[Leonard James]

Be honest though, it is more interesting than listening to Bashful Anthony rant on about how we should have a set of rules that he, himself, can't keep.

Indeed! There are few things more boring than the regurgitation of the religiously indoctrinated.

Hopefully, we will one day grow out of such primitive superstitions.

[ProfessorDavey]

Yes they did - owlswing - which was the start of the whole discussion.

You're going to have to point out the post in which he said that, because I can't find it. I did find a couple of posts in which he called it soccer and posts in which he defended his use of the term, but no posts in which he claimed everybody should call it soccer.

And where did I ever claim that. Where did I say that this discussion was about someone thinking that everyone should use the term soccer - I didn't. I claimed that this was about the suggestion that football should be called soccer rather than football.

Clearly owlswing thinks football should be called soccer - why - because that is the term he choses to use himself and when pulled up on it by Rhiannon justifies its use.

Now I'll happily accept americans using the term soccer, as this is the accepted term there and using football creates confusion with the game they call football. But there isn't the same excuse in the UK - anyone using the term soccer either uses it in ignorance of the fact that the football community (fans, players, teams etc etc) never uses it and don't like it, or in a kind of belittling and somewhat derogatory manner. Owswing seems to fit the latter rather well.

And my earliest posts on the matter suggested that those that insist on calling the sport soccer (unless they are american) tend to do so because they aren't fans and often in a somewhat derogatory manner. Which was exactly the case in his post.

It's clearly true in his case that he has a low opinion of football but I've never met anybody who insists on calling football soccer, so I can't comment on the general case.

I've met a fair few (in the UK) and they tend to fall into the categories I mentioned above.

[Owlswing]

Yes they did - owlswing - which was the start of the whole discussion.

You're going to have to point out the post in which he said that, because I can't find it. I did find a couple of posts in which he called it soccer and posts in which he defended his use of the term, but no posts in which he claimed everybody should call it soccer.

And where did I ever claim that. Where did I say that this discussion was about someone thinking that everyone should use the term soccer - I didn't. I claimed that this was about the suggestion that football should be called soccer rather than football.

Clearly owlswing thinks football should be called soccer - why - because that is the term he choses to use himself and when pulled up on it by Rhiannon justifies its use.

Now I'll happily accept americans using the term soccer, as this is the accepted term there and using football creates confusion with the game they call football. But there isn't the same excuse in the UK - anyone using the term soccer either uses it in ignorance of the fact that the football community (fans, players, teams etc etc) never uses it and don't like it, or in a kind of belittling and somewhat derogatory manner. Owswing seems to fit the latter rather well.

And my earliest posts on the matter suggested that those that insist on calling the sport soccer (unless they are american) tend to do so because they aren't fans and often in a somewhat derogatory manner. Which was exactly the case in his post.

It's clearly true in his case that he has a low opinion of football but I've never met anybody who insists on calling football soccer, so I can't comment on the general case.

I've met a fair few (in the UK) and they tend to fall into the categories I mentioned above.

Just what are you a Professor of?

[ProfessorDavey]

Yes they did - owlswing - which was the start of the whole discussion.

You're going to have to point out the post in which he said that, because I can't find it. I did find a couple of posts in which he called it soccer and posts in which he defended his use of the term, but no posts in which he claimed everybody should call it soccer.

And where did I ever claim that. Where did I say that this discussion was about someone thinking that everyone should use the term soccer - I didn't. I claimed that this was about the suggestion that football should be called soccer rather than football.

Clearly owlswing thinks football should be called soccer - why - because that is the term he choses to use himself and when pulled up on it by Rhiannon justifies its use.

Now I'll happily accept americans using the term soccer, as this is the accepted term there and using football creates confusion with the game they call football. But there isn't the same excuse in the UK - anyone using the term soccer either uses it in ignorance of the fact that the football community (fans, players, teams etc etc) never uses it and don't like it, or in a kind of belittling and somewhat derogatory manner. Owswing seems to fit the latter rather well.

And my earliest posts on the matter suggested that those that insist on calling the sport soccer (unless they are american) tend to do so because they aren't fans and often in a somewhat derogatory manner. Which was exactly the case in his post.

It's clearly true in his case that he has a low opinion of football but I've never met anybody who insists on calling football soccer, so I can't comment on the general case.

I've met a fair few (in the UK) and they tend to fall into the categories I mentioned above.

Just what are you a Professor of?

Why is that relevant?

[Udayana]

You might have an academic concern that names of games are strictly defined?

[ProfessorDavey]

You might have an academic concern that names of games are strictly defined?

Nope.

Just your average football fan's loathing of people in Britain referring to football as soccer. As I've said before, I'll accept it from americans as there is genuine confusion. But not so in the UK - no-one in the UK is confused if you talk about football, they know perfectly well you are talking about the 11 player, round ball game (aka association football) and not any other kind of game. So why use a term that has no acceptance within the footballing community in Britain and, as I've said before, tends to be used only by people who show no interest in the sport, are often actively negative toward it and also often look down their noses at it (preferring 'rugger' of course).

It is kind of like referring to the olympic sport where Jonathan Edwards won gold for GB as 'hop, skip and jump' or the olympic sport often dominated by the Chinese as 'ping pong' or even 'wiff waff'!

[Udayana]

Prof, you are probably right ... but I don't think anyone cares!

[ProfessorDavey]

Prof, you are probably right ... but I don't think anyone cares!

Millions of football fans care.

[Owlswing]

Prof, you are probably right ... but I don't think anyone cares!

Millions of football fans care.

Prove it! Have yoiu actually polled millions of fans?

I rather doubt it!

[BeRational]

Prof, you are probably right ... but I don't think anyone cares!

Millions of football fans care.

Prove it! Have yoiu actually polled millions of fans?

I rather doubt it!

I have to agree with the prof.
I mix with many football fans, and none of them call it soccer.

In the US I might refer to it as soccer (if I remember), but more likely forget and just call it football, then have to correct myself.
I would imagine anywhere else in the world, I could just say football, and it would cause no confusion.

[Owlswing]

Prof, you are probably right ... but I don't think anyone cares!

Millions of football fans care.

Prove it! Have yoiu actually polled millions of fans?

I rather doubt it!

I have to agree with the prof.
I mix with many football fans, and none of them call it soccer.

In the US I might refer to it as soccer (if I remember), but more likely forget and just call it football, then have to correct myself.
I would imagine anywhere else in the world, I could just say football, and it would cause no confusion.

Shrugs!

[ProfessorDavey]

Prof, you are probably right ... but I don't think anyone cares!

Millions of football fans care.

Prove it! Have yoiu actually polled millions of fans?

I rather doubt it!

Why don't you try a little experiment owlswing.

Pop into a pub near to a football ground before or after a match. It will be filled with football fans enjoying a pre- or post- match drink. Ask them whether they are looking forward to the 'soccer', whether they watched a good 'soccer' match. Check out the response.

If you are lucky (and the fans are in a good mood) the response will be derision. If in a bad mood - well the response might be rather stronger.

Football fans in Britain refer to their game as football, not soccer, and their attitude toward use of the term soccer isn't merely neutral.

[Owlswing]

Prof, you are probably right ... but I don't think anyone cares!

Millions of football fans care.

Prove it! Have yoiu actually polled millions of fans?

I rather doubt it!

Why don't you try a little experiment owlswing.

Pop into a pub near to a football ground before or after a match. It will be filled with football fans enjoying a pre- or post- match drink. Ask them whether they are looking forward to the 'soccer', whether they watched a good 'soccer' match. Check out the response.

If you are lucky (and the fans are in a good mood) the response will be derision. If in a bad mood - well the response might be rather stronger.

Football fans in Britain refer to their game as football, not soccer, and their attitude toward use of the term soccer isn't merely neutral.

So fottball supportes are still a bunch of thugs?

I do not give a tuppeny stuff about who believes what - what I have argued is that "socce" stands for Association Football regardless of the current usage!

[ProfessorDavey]

So fottball supportes are still a bunch of thugs?

Yet more ill-informed negative stereotyping of football supporters - then I guess that is exactly what I'd expect from someone who calls football 'soccer'.

I do not give a tuppeny stuff about who believes what - what I have argued is that "socce" stands for Association Football regardless of the current usage!

So what - what relevance has earliest etymology to do with current usage. There are thousands of words that might have been derived in Britain but aren't accepted use anymore.

And actually I think there is an interesting element to its etymology which may, to some degree, explain the negativity that football fans have toward it. Namely that the type of slang used is what is called The Oxford 'ers' which is synonymous with the public school and Oxbridge elite. Not surprising then that football which rapidly developed into a working class game wasn't going to have anything to do with it. And further that those from that elite, who were very likely to be disdainful of football, maintained the term in a kind off 'looking down your nose' way at a sport of the hoi-paloi.

The sort of attitude that persists to this day in people who look down their noses at football and assume that all football fans must be thugs ... hmm remind you of anyone?

[Owlswing]

So football supporters are still a bunch of thugs?

Yet more ill-informed negative stereotyping of football supporters - then I guess that is exactly what I'd expect from someone who calls football 'soccer'.

From the prof neatly edited out to make me look like I am using "ill-informed negative stereotyping"

Just what I would expect from a football supporter

[ProfessorDavey]

So football supporters are still a bunch of thugs?

Yet more ill-informed negative stereotyping of football supporters - then I guess that is exactly what I'd expect from someone who calls football 'soccer'.

From the prof neatly edited out to make me look like I am using "ill-informed negative stereotyping"

Just what I would expect from a football supporter

Err ... is that supposed to make sense?!?

[jeremyp]

Yes they did - owlswing - which was the start of the whole discussion.

You're going to have to point out the post in which he said that, because I can't find it. I did find a couple of posts in which he called it soccer and posts in which he defended his use of the term, but no posts in which he claimed everybody should call it soccer.

And where did I ever claim that. Where did I say that this discussion was about someone thinking that everyone should use the term soccer - I didn't. I claimed that this was about the suggestion that football should be called soccer rather than football.

Reply #323

I think you are rather drifting away from the point. That was the suggestion that football should be called soccer rather than, well, football.

That is clearly implying that you think somebody said that football would be called soccer instead of football.

Clearly owlswing thinks football should be called soccer

No, that is not clear at all. Owlswing certainly thinks it is OK to call it soccer and has defended his rationale for doing so himself, but he has not said that football should  be called soccer in general by everybody.

- why - because that is the term he choses to use himself and when pulled up on it by Rhiannon justifies its use.

The pulling up was incorrect. defending his own use does not mean he thinks everybody should use the term.

[Rhiannon]

I wasn't even pulling him up - to do so would be both pedantic and rude - it was just a gentle tease over him using an Americanism in the context of another conversation we were having. As if it matters.

[ProfessorDavey]

Yes they did - owlswing - which was the start of the whole discussion.

You're going to have to point out the post in which he said that, because I can't find it. I did find a couple of posts in which he called it soccer and posts in which he defended his use of the term, but no posts in which he claimed everybody should call it soccer.

And where did I ever claim that. Where did I say that this discussion was about someone thinking that everyone should use the term soccer - I didn't. I claimed that this was about the suggestion that football should be called soccer rather than football.

Reply #323

I think you are rather drifting away from the point. That was the suggestion that football should be called soccer rather than, well, football.

That is clearly implying that you think somebody said that football would be called soccer instead of football.

Clearly owlswing thinks football should be called soccer

No, that is not clear at all. Owlswing certainly thinks it is OK to call it soccer and has defended his rationale for doing so himself, but he has not said that football should  be called soccer in general by everybody.

- why - because that is the term he choses to use himself and when pulled up on it by Rhiannon justifies its use.

The pulling up was incorrect. defending his own use does not mean he thinks everybody should use the term.

I ask again - where did I say that this discussion was about someone thinking that everyone should use the term soccer - I didn't.

You are adding 2 plus 2 and making 5, Jeremy.

[Owlswing]

Yes they did - owlswing - which was the start of the whole discussion.

You're going to have to point out the post in which he said that, because I can't find it. I did find a couple of posts in which he called it soccer and posts in which he defended his use of the term, but no posts in which he claimed everybody should call it soccer.

And where did I ever claim that. Where did I say that this discussion was about someone thinking that everyone should use the term soccer - I didn't. I claimed that this was about the suggestion that football should be called soccer rather than football.

Reply #323

I think you are rather drifting away from the point. That was the suggestion that football should be called soccer rather than, well, football.

That is clearly implying that you think somebody said that football would be called soccer instead of football.

Clearly owlswing thinks football should be called soccer

No, that is not clear at all. Owlswing certainly thinks it is OK to call it soccer and has defended his rationale for doing so himself, but he has not said that football should  be called soccer in general by everybody.

- why - because that is the term he choses to use himself and when pulled up on it by Rhiannon justifies its use.

The pulling up was incorrect. defending his own use does not mean he thinks everybody should use the term.

I ask again - where did I say that this discussion was about someone thinking that everyone should use the term soccer - I didn't.

You are adding 2 plus 2 and making 5, Jeremy.

Post #334

quote- Clearly owlswing thinks football should be called soccer - why - because that is the term he choses to use himself - unquote

NOW STFU!

It is your football - take it play whatever you want to call it

[Nearly Sane]

I think to bring light to this very significant argument, we should compromise and all call it soccerball.