Cameron speech.

[BashfulAnthony]

Having watched David Cameron's speech to the Tory toffs and blue-rinse brigade, I am astounded at his audacity and duplicity.  He firstly claimed to be a Government through the will of the people, yet he was elected by less than 37% of the electorate.  His government has failed in it's promise to bring down net immigration to the "tens of thousands." It is currently running at 330,000 net, yearly, and rising.  He has failed to cut the deficit to the level he promised:  it is not even halved  -  and the Tories are now borrowing more than Labour ever did; though he continues to castigate Labour for their borrowing.  He has failed to even come close to his promise to build 200,000 houses a year:  it is still 100,000 short of that, and has gone down in all but one year in the last five and a half.  Then there is the tax credit shambles:  to make the poorer, "but hard-working" people better off, by taking over £1,000 a year off them!!  Then there is his shambles of a promise to squeeze concessions from the EU over our referendum question. His foreign policy is a disaster!   How people could ever have believed him is beyond me. 

[Jack Knave]

You hit the nail on the head there, Bashy, most voters and punters are dumbass stupid.

During the 2010 election he said no top down reorganization of the NHS, no VAT increase and no ifs and no buts about immigration. This time round no change to in-work child benefits. And guess what......and they still trust the pork sausage liar.

[Anchorman]

Not up here, they don't.
Cameron is about as trustworthy as Thatcher - and nearly as popular.

[Jack Knave]

Not up here, they don't.
Cameron is about as trustworthy as Thatcher - and nearly as popular.

I'm well aware of that Anchorman! It seems that the majority of the English have that lesson to learn yet.

[jeremyp]

Not up here, they don't.
Cameron is about as trustworthy as Thatcher - and nearly as popular.

I'm well aware of that Anchorman! It seems that the majority of the English have that lesson to learn yet.

As BA's original post points out, only 37% of the people who even turned out voted Tory. The majority of the English did not vote for Cameron.

[jakswan]

I think the Tories got lucky with Miliband and the SNP doing the hard work for him at the last election.

% of the vote when Labour one was 40% in 2005.

[jakswan]

Not up here, they don't.
Cameron is about as trustworthy as Thatcher - and nearly as popular.

15% of Scots say otherwise.

[Nearly Sane]

Not up here, they don't.
Cameron is about as trustworthy as Thatcher - and nearly as popular.

15% of Scots say otherwise.

15% of voters in Scotland

[ProfessorDavey]

Not up here, they don't.
Cameron is about as trustworthy as Thatcher - and nearly as popular.

15% of Scots say otherwise.

15% of voters in Scotland

What do you mean by that NS?

Are you implying that native scots were less likely to vote tory than people living in scotland who aren't native scots? In which so I suggest you provide some evidence.

And if you are breaking things down in that manner, you also need to include the voting record of native scots who are now living in other parts of the UK.

[Nearly Sane]

Not up here, they don't.
Cameron is about as trustworthy as Thatcher - and nearly as popular.

15% of Scots say otherwise.

15% of voters in Scotland

What do you mean by that NS?

Are you implying that native scots were less likely to vote tory than people living in scotland who aren't native scots? In which so I suggest you provide some evidence.

And if you are breaking things down in that manner, you also need to include the voting record of native scots who are now living in other parts of the UK.

Eh? I merely adjusted jakswan's statement to be more clearly correct. I wasn't breaking it down in to being native Scots but rather pointing out that the figure he was using is just voters in Scotland, rather than anything to do with natives. Further, what of should have added was 'of those voting'

[Harrowby Hall]

The majority of the English did not vote for Cameron.

Indeed.

The only people who voted for Cameron were the electors of Witney.

In the United Kingdom we do not vote for prime ministers. It is entirely possible that the Conservative members of Parliament could have selected another person to be their leader in the House of Commons who would then have been asked to form a government. It's not particularly common - it last happened in 1940.

[jakswan]

Eh? I merely adjusted jakswan's statement to be more clearly correct. I wasn't breaking it down in to being native Scots but rather pointing out that the figure he was using is just voters in Scotland, rather than anything to do with natives. Further, what of should have added was 'of those voting'

Yes it wasn't a wholly accurate statement in response to an even less accurate statement. The person that made the original statement though was a Scot and I'm a fool for expecting equality where nationalism is involved.

[ProfessorDavey]

Not up here, they don't.
Cameron is about as trustworthy as Thatcher - and nearly as popular.

15% of Scots say otherwise.

15% of voters in Scotland

What do you mean by that NS?

Are you implying that native scots were less likely to vote tory than people living in scotland who aren't native scots? In which so I suggest you provide some evidence.

And if you are breaking things down in that manner, you also need to include the voting record of native scots who are now living in other parts of the UK.

Eh? I merely adjusted jakswan's statement to be more clearly correct. I wasn't breaking it down in to being native Scots but rather pointing out that the figure he was using is just voters in Scotland, rather than anything to do with natives. Further, what of should have added was 'of those voting'

Fair enough - thanks for the clarification.

[Nearly Sane]

Yes it wasn't a wholly accurate statement in response to an even less accurate statement. The person that made the original statement though was a Scot and I'm a fool for expecting equality where nationalism is involved.

Mmm I take it you mean Anchorman's comment about Cameron not being popular - how is that inaccurate? The votes in Scotland for the Tories were considerably lower than in England. If Jim was inaccaurate it would be in ascribing any similar popularity between Thatcher and Cameron - Cameron is nowhere near as popular on that measure. Thatcher's Tories got 31% in 1979 - an increase of about 6% and greadually lost those votes recording 24% in 1987  but the 15% for the Tories is the lowest GE figure ever.

[Outrider]

If Cameron is so terrible, how bad must the opposition have been that he managed to secure not only a victory, but a parliamentary majority.

The framing of the election debate was conducted by the mainstream media, and by and large that focused on economic capacity where - rightly or wrongly - the Tories were seen as a better option than Labour or the SNP that were promoted as holding the balance of Labour's potential power.

If you want to target those 'responsible' for the Tory election win, point at Miliband's ineffectiveness (and Blair's legacy that he failed to overcome), Sturgeon's violently anti-English rhetoric and the right-wing media's general misrepresentation (and the gullible public that lap up the tripe they pass off as journalism).

O.

[Nearly Sane]

Can you point me to this violently anto-English rhetoric of Nicola?

[Aruntraveller]

Well when you've all finished bickering about the exact figures and splits - what it does show is that democracy in the UK is not (in that dreaded phrase) fit for purpose.

However much I despise UKIP the fact that they got 1 MP on 12.7% of the vote and the SNP got 56 MP's on 4.7% of the vote and that the LibDems got 8 MP's on 7.9%  of the vote clearly demonstrates that the whole system is skewed and needs overhauling.

This simply is not representative democracy.

[Nearly Sane]

Well when you've all finished bickering about the exact figures and splits - what it does show is that democracy in the UK is not (in that dreaded phrase) fit for purpose.

However much I despise UKIP the fact that they got 1 MP on 12.7% of the vote and the SNP got 56 MP's on 4.7% of the vote and that the LibDems got 8 MP's on 7.9%  of the vote clearly demonstrates that the whole system is skewed and needs overhauling.

This simply is not representative democracy.

Absolutely agree

[Nearly Sane]

And then of course there was this

http://www.carbonated.tv/news/david-cameron-jon-snow-saudi-arabia-channel-4-interview-video

[Outrider]

Well when you've all finished bickering about the exact figures and splits - what it does show is that democracy in the UK is not (in that dreaded phrase) fit for purpose.

However much I despise UKIP the fact that they got 1 MP on 12.7% of the vote and the SNP got 56 MP's on 4.7% of the vote and that the LibDems got 8 MP's on 7.9%  of the vote clearly demonstrates that the whole system is skewed and needs overhauling.

This simply is not representative democracy.

Absolutely agree

The electoral system needs reforming, yes, but that electoral system was the same for each of the parties - they knew what it was going in, and so did we. It might be responsible for the misrepresentation that Parliament is of the popular vote, but it's not responsible for Cameron's win - it was the same system for all of them.

O.

[Nearly Sane]

The electoral system needs reforming, yes, but that electoral system was the same for each of the parties - they knew what it was going in, and so did we. It might be responsible for the misrepresentation that Parliament is of the popular vote, but it's not responsible for Cameron's win - it was the same system for all of them.

O.

And? The system is skewed against certain voting patterns so it isn't the same for all

[Aruntraveller]

The electoral system needs reforming, yes, but that electoral system was the same for each of the parties - they knew what it was going in, and so did we. It might be responsible for the misrepresentation that Parliament is of the popular vote, but it's not responsible for Cameron's win - it was the same system for all of them.

O.

And? The system is skewed against certain voting patterns so it isn't the same for all

Exactly - and as such, is in part, responsible for Cameron forming a majority.

[Outrider]

The electoral system needs reforming, yes, but that electoral system was the same for each of the parties - they knew what it was going in, and so did we. It might be responsible for the misrepresentation that Parliament is of the popular vote, but it's not responsible for Cameron's win - it was the same system for all of them.

O.

And? The system is skewed against certain voting patterns so it isn't the same for all

That system, though, is not something new - I agree that it favours the larger, more established parties over the smaller, but that doesn't change the fact that the reason the 'left' lost is because:
a) Labour failed to capitalise on the Tory austerity measures (largely because the media focused on economic effects rather than social)
b) the left-wing vote fragmented, especially the divisory forces on the right either dissolved (BNP) or shifted towards the centre (UKIP) in search of more votes.

Socialist nationalist parties, the Greens, a significant portion of the Lib Dems and the Labour party were all competing for the centre, centre-left and left wing votes, whilst no-one was standing in opposition to the Tory's for the centre-right and right wing.

O.

O.

[Nearly Sane]

That system, though, is not something new - I agree that it favours the larger, more established parties over the smaller, but that doesn't change the fact that the reason the 'left' lost is because:
a) Labour failed to capitalise on the Tory austerity measures (largely because the media focused on economic effects rather than social)
b) the left-wing vote fragmented, especially the divisory forces on the right either dissolved (BNP) or shifted towards the centre (UKIP) in search of more votes.

Socialist nationalist parties, the Greens, a significant portion of the Lib Dems and the Labour party were all competing for the centre, centre-left and left wing votes, whilst no-one was standing in opposition to the Tory's for the centre-right and right wing.

O.

O.

I think iit's a bit simplistic to classify UKIP as a centrist - indeed the whole left/right approach is very simplistic.

[jakswan]

Yes it wasn't a wholly accurate statement in response to an even less accurate statement. The person that made the original statement though was a Scot and I'm a fool for expecting equality where nationalism is involved.

Mmm I take it you mean Anchorman's comment about Cameron not being popular - how is that inaccurate? The votes in Scotland for the Tories were considerably lower than in England. If Jim was inaccaurate it would be in ascribing any similar popularity between Thatcher and Cameron - Cameron is nowhere near as popular on that measure. Thatcher's Tories got 31% in 1979 - an increase of about 6% and greadually lost those votes recording 24% in 1987  but the 15% for the Tories is the lowest GE figure ever.

I took AMs statement to mean that Cameron was as popular as Thatcher.