Cameron speech.

[Outrider]

I think iit's a bit simplistic to classify UKIP as a centrist - indeed the whole left/right approach is very simplistic.

Economically, UKIP were hitting a centrist path - they're authoritarian and isolationist, and I agree that a purely economic overview is simplistic, but that's what the media focussed on and therefore that's how the debate was held.

I'd question, as well, whether the Tory's still held the centre-right position or were more explicitly economically right-wing, but I'm mindful of how the debate was painted on the public consciousness rather than an in depth analysis of the reality.

O.

[Anchorman]

Yes it wasn't a wholly accurate statement in response to an even less accurate statement. The person that made the original statement though was a Scot and I'm a fool for expecting equality where nationalism is involved.

Mmm I take it you mean Anchorman's comment about Cameron not being popular - how is that inaccurate? The votes in Scotland for the Tories were considerably lower than in England. If Jim was inaccaurate it would be in ascribing any similar popularity between Thatcher and Cameron - Cameron is nowhere near as popular on that measure. Thatcher's Tories got 31% in 1979 - an increase of about 6% and greadually lost those votes recording 24% in 1987  but the 15% for the Tories is the lowest GE figure ever.

I took AMs statement to mean that Cameron was as popular as Thatcher.

-
Yep.....
And that's about on the same popularity scale as a pork pie at a bar mitzvah.

[jakswan]

Yes it wasn't a wholly accurate statement in response to an even less accurate statement. The person that made the original statement though was a Scot and I'm a fool for expecting equality where nationalism is involved.

Mmm I take it you mean Anchorman's comment about Cameron not being popular - how is that inaccurate? The votes in Scotland for the Tories were considerably lower than in England. If Jim was inaccaurate it would be in ascribing any similar popularity between Thatcher and Cameron - Cameron is nowhere near as popular on that measure. Thatcher's Tories got 31% in 1979 - an increase of about 6% and greadually lost those votes recording 24% in 1987  but the 15% for the Tories is the lowest GE figure ever.

I took AMs statement to mean that Cameron was as popular as Thatcher.

Yep.....
And that's about on the same popularity scale as a pork pie at a bar mitzvah.

Take it up with NS then, he wrote 'Jim was inaccaurate it would be in ascribing any similar popularity between Thatcher and Cameron'.

[Nearly Sane]

Yes it wasn't a wholly accurate statement in response to an even less accurate statement. The person that made the original statement though was a Scot and I'm a fool for expecting equality where nationalism is involved.

Mmm I take it you mean Anchorman's comment about Cameron not being popular - how is that inaccurate? The votes in Scotland for the Tories were considerably lower than in England. If Jim was inaccaurate it would be in ascribing any similar popularity between Thatcher and Cameron - Cameron is nowhere near as popular on that measure. Thatcher's Tories got 31% in 1979 - an increase of about 6% and greadually lost those votes recording 24% in 1987  but the 15% for the Tories is the lowest GE figure ever.

I took AMs statement to mean that Cameron was as popular as Thatcher.

Yep.....
And that's about on the same popularity scale as a pork pie at a bar mitzvah.

Take it up with NS then, he wrote 'Jim was inaccaurate it would be in ascribing any similar popularity between Thatcher and Cameron'.

Any reason why you removed the IF from the start of that quoted sentence?

[jakswan]

Yes it wasn't a wholly accurate statement in response to an even less accurate statement. The person that made the original statement though was a Scot and I'm a fool for expecting equality where nationalism is involved.

Mmm I take it you mean Anchorman's comment about Cameron not being popular - how is that inaccurate? The votes in Scotland for the Tories were considerably lower than in England. If Jim was inaccaurate it would be in ascribing any similar popularity between Thatcher and Cameron - Cameron is nowhere near as popular on that measure. Thatcher's Tories got 31% in 1979 - an increase of about 6% and greadually lost those votes recording 24% in 1987  but the 15% for the Tories is the lowest GE figure ever.

I took AMs statement to mean that Cameron was as popular as Thatcher.

Yep.....
And that's about on the same popularity scale as a pork pie at a bar mitzvah.

Take it up with NS then, he wrote 'Jim was inaccaurate it would be in ascribing any similar popularity between Thatcher and Cameron'.

Any reason why you removed the IF from the start of that quoted sentence?

The 'if' existed as a result of a condition that AM had removed.

[Outrider]

Can you point me to this violently anto-English rhetoric of Nicola?

That's a fair point - Nicola Sturgeon has been fairly explicitly anti-Westminster, which is a more than valid distinction. If she has any personally anti-English feelings she's not making them public - that was a mischaracterisation on my part.

That the SNP have motivated a groundswell of both anti-Westminster and anti-English sentiment isn't as far as I can see the work of anything they've said publicly.

O.

[wigginhall]

I thought that the best line of the Tory conference was Hunt praising the Chinese for working hard.   That is a true gem.   I think Osborne was praised after his recent China visit for not raising human rights - pragmatism, folks!

[Nearly Sane]

Can you point me to this violently anto-English rhetoric of Nicola?

That's a fair point - Nicola Sturgeon has been fairly explicitly anti-Westminster, which is a more than valid distinction. If she has any personally anti-English feelings she's not making them public - that was a mischaracterisation on my part.

That the SNP have motivated a groundswell of both anti-Westminster and anti-English sentiment isn't as far as I can see the work of anything they've said publicly.

O.

anti Westminster has been generated by a number of SNP members including Nicola. I don't see that as problematic or indeed surprising.


I think there is less anti Englishness now than say forty years ago in part because the SNP changed to a civic nationalist party and reduced such sentiment not just in their nuttier elements but in overall Scottish civic society

[Outrider]

I think there is less anti Englishness now than say forty years ago in part because the SNP changed to a civic nationalist party and reduced such sentiment not just in their nuttier elements but in overall Scottish civic society

As someone with an English accent and an English address, I find that there's a huge swathe of anti-English sentiment amongst the Scottish people I come into contact with. I'm only just into my forties, so I couldn't tell you what it was like back then, but it's noticable now.

O.

[Nearly Sane]

I think there is less anti Englishness now than say forty years ago in part because the SNP changed to a civic nationalist party and reduced such sentiment not just in their nuttier elements but in overall Scottish civic society

As someone with an English accent and an English address, I find that there's a huge swathe of anti-English sentiment amongst the Scottish people I come into contact with. I'm only just into my forties, so I couldn't tell you what it was like back then, but it's noticable now.

O.

That makes me quite sad, any number of such ignorant dickstinks is depressing and I know that there exist such wankspittoons but I do genuinely think that the SNP in the last 30 years or so has been a positive force against this. Not that there aren't nutters still, and with the quadrupling of members after the referendum, some new and quite strange nutters, but the party is now as cosmopolitan and open as any in Scotland.

[jakswan]

I think there is less anti Englishness now than say forty years ago in part because the SNP changed to a civic nationalist party and reduced such sentiment not just in their nuttier elements but in overall Scottish civic society

As someone with an English accent and an English address, I find that there's a huge swathe of anti-English sentiment amongst the Scottish people I come into contact with. I'm only just into my forties, so I couldn't tell you what it was like back then, but it's noticable now.

O.

I know its anecdotal but my experience is the same and vice versa. I was at the Liberty the other day and the anti-Scottish abuse from a few supporters close by aimed at Steven Naismith was appalling and these were Welshmen! Divide and rule might not be the tactic but its working.

[King Oberon]

I was in the army and lived in various parts of England for a number of years and our English cousins aren't short of anti-Scottish rhetoric or anti everyone else for that matter!

Maybe you should visit a different part of Scotland O because half the people I work with (in Glasgow) are English, my ex and my son are English and unless it's one of the great unwashed (chav's to you who hate everyone) they get on fine.

Unless of course your making your point as some do just as an excuse to blame/bash the SNP 

Still waiting to see what alternative to the SNP there is in Scotland? Labour    Libdems  or Tories 

Yeh, no thanks.

[Outrider]

I was in the army and lived in various parts of England for a number of years and our English cousins aren't short of anti-Scottish rhetoric or anti everyone else for that matter!

As a southerner I've had my fair share of derogatory commentary from our cousins in the North, whereas my Scottish family appear to get on fine with them. That said, here in the south I've heard plenty of people be derogatory about the Cornish and the East Anglians. Tribalism, it seems, will always find a way.

Maybe you should visit a different part of Scotland O because half the people I work with (in Glasgow) are English, my ex and my son are English and unless it's one of the great unwashed (chav's to you who hate everyone) they get on fine.

I got it worse in Glasgow than I do in Fife, but I confess it's been twenty odd years since I visited Glasgow. Inverness and Stirling were like Fife (but without family ), and I've not had much opportunity to get any further into the hinterlands than that.

Unless of course your making your point as some do just as an excuse to blame/bash the SNP 

No, as I admitted, my experience of the Scottish hoi-polloi was transferred - so far as I can remember the SNP speeches have been targetted at Westminster, not at England, and if some of their support doesn't make the differentiation that's not the SNP's fault.

Of course, I think it's at least implicit in the SNPs idea of wanting independence, but then swapping Westminster for Brussels by joining the EU as a small-fish that it's about getting rid of Westminster more than it is about actual independence - that's why I advocated for the 'No' camp. I actually wanted genuine independence for Scotland, not swapping UK rule for EU rule.

Still waiting to see what alternative to the SNP there is in Scotland? Labour    Libdems  or Tories 

I'd like to think the Lib Dems or Greens would be able to make the case for left wing, liberal politics without the need to sever the links.

O.