More Christian madness.

[Leonard James]

http://www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias/2015/10/151006_nicaragua_secta_que_espera_el_rapto_divino_bd

[SusanDoris]

I'd need to see the text to understand the Spanish! Can you give a brief summary, please?

[floo]

The people who believe this sort of unbelievable garbage are abusive if they put the lives of their children at risk!

People who are extremist in their religious views, whatever their faith, should come to the attention of the social services, and possibly the police, if they have children or the vulnerable in their care.

[SusanDoris]

Thank you, Rose. Off to the gym now, then Tesco! Back later.

[Hope]

The people who believe this sort of unbelievable garbage are abusive if they put the lives of their children at risk!

People who are extremist in their religious views, whatever their faith, should come to the attention of the social services, and possibly the police, if they have children or the vulnerable in their care.

I would agree with Floo here, though I'm not aware that Nicaragua has any social services in the sense we understand that term; but would also point out that just because a person or people choose to include the name of Christ in their organisational name doesn't necessarily mean that they and their thinking is Christian.  The fact that all that I can glean about their activities contravene Christ's teachings on a whole host of things suggests to me that they aren't Christian at all.

[floo]

The people who believe this sort of unbelievable garbage are abusive if they put the lives of their children at risk!

People who are extremist in their religious views, whatever their faith, should come to the attention of the social services, and possibly the police, if they have children or the vulnerable in their care.

I would agree with Floo here, though I'm not aware that Nicaragua has any social services in the sense we understand that term; but would also point out that just because a person or people choose to include the name of Christ in their organisational name doesn't necessarily mean that they and their thinking is Christian.  The fact that all that I can glean about their activities contravene Christ's teachings on a whole host of things suggests to me that they aren't Christian at all.

There are some fundie Christians in they UK who abuse their children with threats of hell-fire if they don't get 'saved'. Threatening people with that sort of unsupported nastiness is wrong and emotionally abusive, as I know all too well from bitter experience.

[Leonard James]

I'd need to see the text to understand the Spanish! Can you give a brief summary, please?

I'm very sorry, Susan, I was so incensed when I read the news that I forgot it was in Spanish, and just copied the url. The digital translation that Rose offered seems reasonably accurate.

I have searched for an online English version from the bbc, but can't find anything.

Love,
Leonard.

[Hope]

There are some fundie Christians in they UK who abuse their children with threats of hell-fire if they don't get 'saved'. Threatening people with that sort of unsupported nastiness is wrong and emotionally abusive, as I know all too well from bitter experience.

Floo, are you suggesting that - if a parent fears that their child(ren) will suffer punishment if they do things wrong - they are wrong to warn the child(ren) of what they understand will be the consequences of those actions?

[Hope]

I cheated Len, I did a Google search, found the page on the "BBC in Spanish" and then Google gives you the option to translate 


It's very useful, I've used it on pages when I want to visit abroad on holiday.

Sometimes you can get more information that way, Google is useful 🌹

I'm not always impressed by the Google translator, Rose, but this one seems pretty good.

[jakswan]

The fact that all that I can glean about their activities contravene Christ's teachings on a whole host of things suggests to me that they aren't Christian at all.

They would say the same about you. If they claim to follow the teachings of Christ the match the definition of Christian.

[OH MY WORLD!]

Well floo, I would also call in social services on a parent who would use their children to to pull a con on the public. That is also an abusive parent.

[Owlswing]

There are some fundie Christians in they UK who abuse their children with threats of hell-fire if they don't get 'saved'. Threatening people with that sort of unsupported nastiness is wrong and emotionally abusive, as I know all too well from bitter experience.

Floo, are you suggesting that - if a parent fears that their child(ren) will suffer punishment if they do things wrong - they are wrong to warn the child(ren) of what they understand will be the consequences of those actions?

By all means if the consequnces of their actions are a smack on the backside or being sent to bed early without their games console.

But to tell them that they are going to be tortured for eternity by being flung into fire is, by any civilised standards, child abuse, psychological abuse.

[Hope]

By all means if the consequnces of their actions are a smack on the backside or being sent to bed early without their games console.

So, Matt, are you suggesting that you believe that telling a child that running out into the road without looking could result in serious injury (without mentioning death, by the way) is going too far?

Remember that in most cases, the serious consequences aren't 'inflicted' by the parent, but by a third-party.

But to tell them that they are going to be tortured for eternity by being flung into fire is, by any civilised standards, child abuse, psychological abuse.

Floo aside, I wonder how many of us here who were brought up in Christian families were told this kind of thing.  Have to say that Floo is one of only a small handful of people I know who were brought up in such a context who have been told this.

[jakswan]

Floo aside, I wonder how many of us here who were brought up in Christian families were told this kind of thing.  Have to say that Floo is one of only a small handful of people I know who were brought up in such a context who have been told this.

I recall, after telling my Gran I was an atheist she replied I would burn in hell. We have quite a few on this forum that believe that people that don't agree with them are deserving of eternal torture, I know its anecdotal but that would be enough to refute your suggestion that its rare.

Hoppity do you believe in hell? Is it a nice place?

[Owlswing]

By all means if the consequnces of their actions are a smack on the backside or being sent to bed early without their games console.

So, Matt, are you suggesting that you believe that telling a child that running out into the road without looking could result in serious injury (without mentioning death, by the way) is going too far?

Remember that in most cases, the serious consequences aren't 'inflicted' by the parent, but by a third-party.

You really don't think that this is reasonable comparison do you?

The consequences of running into ther road are immediate and and demonstable to the child by traw;ling the internet. It is not something where the punishment is goinbg to be deferred for their entire lives and inflicted after death.

The thirsd party agument is rubbish and unconnected.

But to tell them that they are going to be tortured for eternity by being flung into fire is, by any civilised standards, child abuse, psychological abuse.
[/quote

Floo aside, I wonder how many of us here who were brought up in Christian families were told this kind of thing.  Have to say that Floo is one of only a small handful of people I know who were brought up in such a context who have been told this.

More rubbish - hunreds if not thoudznds of kids over the centuries have been taught this, I was taught it in Sunday Schoiol, the kids in the Magdelene homes in Ireland were taught it day in and day out.

If you don't like the truth of the history of your religiomn and the fact that, to a lot of people, your god is the very definition of a Right Bastard for his treatment of those who refuse to follow and obey him without question, don't try to tell others that it is not truth; they only have to read the bible to find that this is what is promised to those who refuse to do as he says. 

[Leonard James]

 I cheated Len, I did a Google search, found the page on the "BBC in Spanish" and then Google gives you the option to translate 


It's very useful, I've used it on pages when I want to visit abroad on holiday.

Sometimes you can get more information that way, Google is useful 🌹

That's very resourceful, Rose! I wonder why the BBC published it in Spanish, but didn't consider it worth publishing in English? In my opinion it should have been made available world-wide, to show what extremities god beliefs can lead to. They are quick enough to publish bad stuff about communist countries, so why the double standard?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Floo aside, I wonder how many of us here who were brought up in Christian families were told this kind of thing.  Have to say that Floo is one of only a small handful of people I know who were brought up in such a context who have been told this.

I recall, after telling my Gran I was an atheist she replied I would burn in hell. We have quite a few on this forum that believe that people that don't agree with them are deserving of eternal torture, I know its anecdotal but that would be enough to refute your suggestion that its rare.

Hoppity do you believe in hell? Is it a nice place?

What gets me is the insistence of many atheists on Christians believing that hell is literally a place of flames.
Why do these atheists persist in the medieval view where there are more views on offer about hell which are more consistent with the whole of scripture.
Mixed in with all of this is the materialistic failure to think outside a ''box'' which runs something like this:

Hell cannot exist because we know about astronomy and geology.
If it is a place the people in it are innocent of everything.
Every possible torture of hell must be inflicted on them because it is impossible that they have anything bad in them which turns on themselves.

I wonder how all that squares with Jesus statement that those who refuse salvation will die in their own sins.

[floo]

Floo aside, I wonder how many of us here who were brought up in Christian families were told this kind of thing.  Have to say that Floo is one of only a small handful of people I know who were brought up in such a context who have been told this.

I recall, after telling my Gran I was an atheist she replied I would burn in hell. We have quite a few on this forum that believe that people that don't agree with them are deserving of eternal torture, I know its anecdotal but that would be enough to refute your suggestion that its rare.

Hoppity do you believe in hell? Is it a nice place?

What gets me is the insistence of many atheists on Christians believing that hell is literally a place of flames.
Why do these atheists persist in the medieval view where there are more views on offer about hell which are more consistent with the whole of scripture.
Mixed in with all of this is the materialistic failure to think outside a ''box'' which runs something like this:

Hell cannot exist because we know about astronomy and geology.
If it is a place the people in it are innocent of everything.
Every possible torture of hell must be inflicted on them because it is impossible that they have anything bad in them which turns on themselves.

I wonder how all that squares with Jesus statement that those who refuse salvation will die in their own sins.

Jesus wasn't perfect I wonder if he needed saving too? 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Floo aside, I wonder how many of us here who were brought up in Christian families were told this kind of thing.  Have to say that Floo is one of only a small handful of people I know who were brought up in such a context who have been told this.

I recall, after telling my Gran I was an atheist she replied I would burn in hell. We have quite a few on this forum that believe that people that don't agree with them are deserving of eternal torture, I know its anecdotal but that would be enough to refute your suggestion that its rare.

Hoppity do you believe in hell? Is it a nice place?

What gets me is the insistence of many atheists on Christians believing that hell is literally a place of flames.
Why do these atheists persist in the medieval view where there are more views on offer about hell which are more consistent with the whole of scripture.
Mixed in with all of this is the materialistic failure to think outside a ''box'' which runs something like this:

Hell cannot exist because we know about astronomy and geology.
If it is a place the people in it are innocent of everything.
Every possible torture of hell must be inflicted on them because it is impossible that they have anything bad in them which turns on themselves.

I wonder how all that squares with Jesus statement that those who refuse salvation will die in their own sins.

Jesus wasn't perfect I wonder if he needed saving too? 

He was though. That's the point.

[jeremyp]

I recall, after telling my Gran I was an atheist she replied I would burn in hell. We have quite a few on this forum that believe that people that don't agree with them are deserving of eternal torture, I know its anecdotal but that would be enough to refute your suggestion that its rare.

Hoppity do you believe in hell? Is it a nice place?

What gets me is the insistence of many atheists on Christians believing that hell is literally a place of flames.

I think, if you read Jakswan's anecdote, it was his Gran (presumably a Christian) who thought that Hell is a place of flames.

If atheists refer to Hell as a place of flames, it's because they were told that by Christians. You only have yourselves to blame.

[Owlswing]

Floo aside, I wonder how many of us here who were brought up in Christian families were told this kind of thing.  Have to say that Floo is one of only a small handful of people I know who were brought up in such a context who have been told this.

I recall, after telling my Gran I was an atheist she replied I would burn in hell. We have quite a few on this forum that believe that people that don't agree with them are deserving of eternal torture, I know its anecdotal but that would be enough to refute your suggestion that its rare.

Hoppity do you believe in hell? Is it a nice place?

What gets me is the insistence of many atheists on Christians believing that hell is literally a place of flames.
Why do these atheists persist in the medieval view where there are more views on offer about hell which are more consistent with the whole of scripture.
Mixed in with all of this is the materialistic failure to think outside a ''box'' which runs something like this:

Hell cannot exist because we know about astronomy and geology.
If it is a place the people in it are innocent of everything.
Every possible torture of hell must be inflicted on them because it is impossible that they have anything bad in them which turns on themselves.

I wonder how all that squares with Jesus statement that those who refuse salvation will die in their own sins.

Jesus wasn't perfect I wonder if he needed saving too? 

He was though. That's the point.

NO - the point is that ONLY Christians think that he was.

[Leonard James]

NO - the point is that ONLY Christians think that he was.

And they only think so because that is what they have been taught!

[floo]

Floo aside, I wonder how many of us here who were brought up in Christian families were told this kind of thing.  Have to say that Floo is one of only a small handful of people I know who were brought up in such a context who have been told this.

I recall, after telling my Gran I was an atheist she replied I would burn in hell. We have quite a few on this forum that believe that people that don't agree with them are deserving of eternal torture, I know its anecdotal but that would be enough to refute your suggestion that its rare.

Hoppity do you believe in hell? Is it a nice place?

What gets me is the insistence of many atheists on Christians believing that hell is literally a place of flames.
Why do these atheists persist in the medieval view where there are more views on offer about hell which are more consistent with the whole of scripture.
Mixed in with all of this is the materialistic failure to think outside a ''box'' which runs something like this:

Hell cannot exist because we know about astronomy and geology.
If it is a place the people in it are innocent of everything.
Every possible torture of hell must be inflicted on them because it is impossible that they have anything bad in them which turns on themselves.

I wonder how all that squares with Jesus statement that those who refuse salvation will die in their own sins.

Jesus wasn't perfect I wonder if he needed saving too? 

He was though. That's the point.

And you know that for a fact do you?

[jakswan]

What gets me is the insistence of many atheists on Christians believing that hell is literally a place of flames.

Strawman, I don't believe in hell.

Why do these atheists persist in the medieval view where there are more views on offer about hell which are more consistent with the whole of scripture.

Strawman, I don't persist in this view.

Mixed in with all of this is the materialistic failure to think outside a ''box'' which runs something like this:

Hell cannot exist because we know about astronomy and geology.
If it is a place the people in it are innocent of everything.
Every possible torture of hell must be inflicted on them because it is impossible that they have anything bad in them which turns on themselves.

Strawman, that is not how I think with regard to hell.

I wonder how all that squares with Jesus statement that those who refuse salvation will die in their own sins.

It doesn't need to square with me since I regard what Jesus warned of as irrelevant.   

[Walt Zingmatilder]

What gets me is the insistence of many atheists on Christians believing that hell is literally a place of flames.

Strawman, I don't believe in hell.

Why do these atheists persist in the medieval view where there are more views on offer about hell which are more consistent with the whole of scripture.

Strawman, I don't persist in this view.

Mixed in with all of this is the materialistic failure to think outside a ''box'' which runs something like this:

Hell cannot exist because we know about astronomy and geology.
If it is a place the people in it are innocent of everything.
Every possible torture of hell must be inflicted on them because it is impossible that they have anything bad in them which turns on themselves.

Strawman, that is not how I think with regard to hell.

I wonder how all that squares with Jesus statement that those who refuse salvation will die in their own sins.

It doesn't need to square with me since I regard what Jesus warned of as irrelevant.

I thought I left room for atheists who do not prefer the cariciture presentations
of Christians as hellfire merchants to escape any generalisation.

you have misunderstood my post.

As a matter of interest what model of hell do you think Christians typically hold?

Also there must be reasons why you think what Jesus is irrelevant. Although you are quite at liberty not to share it us I think it makes you look a bit snipey.