Author Topic: Oh Dear ?!!?? We're Off Again !!!!  (Read 10199 times)

trippymonkey

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Oh Dear ?!!?? We're Off Again !!!!
« on: October 15, 2015, 09:40:56 AM »
ok
« Last Edit: June 10, 2017, 10:57:12 PM by trippymonkey »

john

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Re: Oh Dear ?!!?? We're Off Again !!!!
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2015, 01:24:10 PM »
This stuff is really scary

I have been reading a lot of stuff about Islam and the way it is going over the last year or so and it seems to me that things can only get worse. Peaceful co existence seems to be impossible.
"Try again. Fail again. Fail Better". Samuel Beckett

Outrider

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Re: Oh Dear ?!!?? We're Off Again !!!!
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2015, 01:33:43 PM »
This stuff is really scary

I have been reading a lot of stuff about Islam and the way it is going over the last year or so and it seems to me that things can only get worse. Peaceful co existence seems to be impossible.

And if you were to read the KKK or the Westboro Baptists as the be all and end all of Christianity, you'd be equally as worried about them, and rightfully so. The difference - at the moment - is that the fundamentalist Christians don't yet have control of a military force or an economy. Just as the moderates, secularists and atheists maintain a degree of control over the ultra-Christian idiots, so the moderate Muslims and secularists and atheists will exert a degree of control over the fundamentalists because as they are exposed to other options the barbarity of their primitive philosophy will drive away all but the most rabid.

It will take time and there will be struggles and deaths along the way, no doubt.

O.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Oh Dear ?!!?? We're Off Again !!!!
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2015, 01:48:49 PM »
I feel the same when I listen to Republican presidential debates.

Jack Knave

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Re: Oh Dear ?!!?? We're Off Again !!!!
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2015, 08:21:58 PM »
This stuff is really scary

I have been reading a lot of stuff about Islam and the way it is going over the last year or so and it seems to me that things can only get worse. Peaceful co existence seems to be impossible.
If things become polarized, and I'm talking about the Muslims in the west, then we could see moderate Muslims here being pressurised by the situation to take some stance against where they live.....? In situations like this they would have to chose where their loyalties lie.

Outrider

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Re: Oh Dear ?!!?? We're Off Again !!!!
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2015, 01:57:19 PM »
Jack ALL Muslims' loyalties lie with Islam & the Middle East. It says so in The Quran itself.
ALL non-Muslims are lesser people than the lowest Muslim.

Keep shtum until you're 'big' enough to take over your area & either convert all else to Islam, force them to pay the Jizya tax ALL non-Muslims would pay, leave or die.

And what's the recent news about that girl who was found with bomb making paper-work on her, or some other stuff & got away with it because SHE APOLOGISED ?!?!? WTF ??????

Nick

And all Christians support slavery and stoning non-virgins, because it says so in their holy book, right...

O.
Universes are forever, not just for creation...

New Atheism - because, apparently, there's a use-by date on unanswered questions.

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The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Oh Dear ?!!?? We're Off Again !!!!
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2015, 09:00:30 AM »
Jack ALL Muslims' loyalties lie with Islam & the Middle East. It says so in The Quran itself.
ALL non-Muslims are lesser people than the lowest Muslim.

Keep shtum until you're 'big' enough to take over your area & either convert all else to Islam, force them to pay the Jizya tax ALL non-Muslims would pay, leave or die.

Nick
Interesting beliefs you have about "ALL" Muslims. What do you believe having loyalty to Islam and the Middle East means in terms of actual behaviours?

Oh, I see you went on to explain what that means to you in terms of behaviour. You sound just like the people (some of them are Muslim) who think there is a world-wide Jewish conspiracy to control the world.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Owlswing

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Re: Oh Dear ?!!?? We're Off Again !!!!
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2015, 11:42:02 AM »

You sound just like the people (some of them are Muslim) who think there is a world-wide Jewish conspiracy to control the world.


Are you by any chance accusing trippy of being a Nazi or of having sypathy for nazi values!

The term "world-wide Jewish conspiracy" is straight out of Mein Kampf!

As I see it - IS Islam and Nazism are identical - one is and the other was seeking world domination under their particular philosphies. Both are equally obnoxious - one of the few differences is that IS skips the concentration camp and goes straight to the executions and uses rather older fashioned methods of execution. 
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Oh Dear ?!!?? We're Off Again !!!!
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2015, 12:05:36 PM »

You sound just like the people (some of them are Muslim) who think there is a world-wide Jewish conspiracy to control the world.


Are you by any chance accusing trippy of being a Nazi or of having sypathy for nazi values!
Ok. Feel free to believe that I said trippy has sympathy for Nazi values towards Jews - far be it for me to spoil your enjoyment on this Message Board by asking you not to misrepresent people's posts. Many misrepresentations I think have more comedic value if left uncorrected.

I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Owlswing

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Re: Oh Dear ?!!?? We're Off Again !!!!
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2015, 12:20:20 PM »

You sound just like the people (some of them are Muslim) who think there is a world-wide Jewish conspiracy to control the world.


Are you by any chance accusing trippy of being a Nazi or of having sypathy for nazi values!
Ok. Feel free to believe that I said trippy has sympathy for Nazi values towards Jews - far be it for me to spoil your enjoyment on this Message Board by asking you not to misrepresent people's posts. Many misrepresentations I think have more comedic value if left uncorrected.

NO misrepresentation was made - I note that you carefully edited out this part of my post:

The term "world-wide Jewish conspiracy" is straight out of Mein Kampf!

YOU used it, and I am asking you to justify its use in connection with trippy's comments.

I find absolutely nothing "comedic" about either Nazism or the IS form of Islam or, for that matter, any form of anti-Semitism.
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Oh Dear ?!!?? We're Off Again !!!!
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2015, 12:38:30 PM »

You sound just like the people (some of them are Muslim) who think there is a world-wide Jewish conspiracy to control the world.


Are you by any chance accusing trippy of being a Nazi or of having sypathy for nazi values!
Ok. Feel free to believe that I said trippy has sympathy for Nazi values towards Jews - far be it for me to spoil your enjoyment on this Message Board by asking you not to misrepresent people's posts. Many misrepresentations I think have more comedic value if left uncorrected.

NO misrepresentation was made - I note that you carefully edited out this part of my post:

The term "world-wide Jewish conspiracy" is straight out of Mein Kampf!

YOU used it, and I am asking you to justify its use in connection with trippy's comments.

I find absolutely nothing "comedic" about either Nazism or the IS form of Islam or, for that matter, any form of anti-Semitism.
A misrepresentation was made - I did not say Trippy thought there was a world-wide Jewish conspiracy. I said he sounds like the people who think there is a world-wide Jewish conspiracy when he talks about "ALL Muslims' loyalties lie with Islam & the Middle East. It says so in The Quran itself.
ALL non-Muslims are lesser people than the lowest Muslim.

Keep shtum until you're 'big' enough to take over your area & either convert all else to Islam, force them to pay the Jizya tax ALL non-Muslims would pay, leave or die."

I am afraid you are not paying me enough to give you lessons on the English language - consult an English teacher if you want clarification. So like I said, you feel free to misrepresent me. Oh and also feel free to keep insisting that you are not misrepresenting me if it makes you happy.

Also, you probably should consult the English teacher you hire about the difference in wording between finding misrepresentations comedic and finding Nazism comedic - it might help you to reduce the number of times you make a fool of your self on this Message Board.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Owlswing

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Re: Oh Dear ?!!?? We're Off Again !!!!
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2015, 01:08:28 PM »

ALL non-Muslims are lesser people than the lowest Muslim.



YOU WISH!
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Oh Dear ?!!?? We're Off Again !!!!
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2015, 02:31:07 PM »

ALL non-Muslims are lesser people than the lowest Muslim.



YOU WISH!
Trippy made that statement, not me  :)
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

jakswan

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Re: Oh Dear ?!!?? We're Off Again !!!!
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2015, 07:40:56 PM »
What about the west, Pope, price of butter though.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
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Jack Knave

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Re: Oh Dear ?!!?? We're Off Again !!!!
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2015, 08:20:53 PM »
Jack ALL Muslims' loyalties lie with Islam & the Middle East. It says so in The Quran itself.
ALL non-Muslims are lesser people than the lowest Muslim.

Keep shtum until you're 'big' enough to take over your area & either convert all else to Islam, force them to pay the Jizya tax ALL non-Muslims would pay, leave or die.

Nick
Interesting beliefs you have about "ALL" Muslims. What do you believe having loyalty to Islam and the Middle East means in terms of actual behaviours?

Oh, I see you went on to explain what that means to you in terms of behaviour. You sound just like the people (some of them are Muslim) who think there is a world-wide Jewish conspiracy to control the world.
Gabriella, how loyal are Muslims to what the Koran says? Is it blind obedience? If it says kill a certain group etc. will they take that as an injunction from Allah?

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Oh Dear ?!!?? We're Off Again !!!!
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2015, 08:59:29 PM »
Jack ALL Muslims' loyalties lie with Islam & the Middle East. It says so in The Quran itself.
ALL non-Muslims are lesser people than the lowest Muslim.

Keep shtum until you're 'big' enough to take over your area & either convert all else to Islam, force them to pay the Jizya tax ALL non-Muslims would pay, leave or die.

Nick
Interesting beliefs you have about "ALL" Muslims. What do you believe having loyalty to Islam and the Middle East means in terms of actual behaviours?

Oh, I see you went on to explain what that means to you in terms of behaviour. You sound just like the people (some of them are Muslim) who think there is a world-wide Jewish conspiracy to control the world.
Gabriella, how loyal are Muslims to what the Koran says? Is it blind obedience? If it says kill a certain group etc. will they take that as an injunction from Allah?
Firstly Muslims don't all act as one entity - they are individuals - so I can't be a spokesperson for all billion plus Muslims in the world.

Secondly, does the Quran say kill a certain group? What group is that? As I said, there are over a billion Muslims in the world so once you have worked out which group they are supposed to kill, please let me know. Last time I looked in various conflict-ridden countries there were some Muslims killing other Muslims - does that give you the impression that the Quran tells Muslims to kill Muslims? Is that the group you are referring to?

 
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Jack Knave

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Re: Oh Dear ?!!?? We're Off Again !!!!
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2015, 06:30:38 PM »
Jack ALL Muslims' loyalties lie with Islam & the Middle East. It says so in The Quran itself.
ALL non-Muslims are lesser people than the lowest Muslim.

Keep shtum until you're 'big' enough to take over your area & either convert all else to Islam, force them to pay the Jizya tax ALL non-Muslims would pay, leave or die.

Nick
Interesting beliefs you have about "ALL" Muslims. What do you believe having loyalty to Islam and the Middle East means in terms of actual behaviours?

Oh, I see you went on to explain what that means to you in terms of behaviour. You sound just like the people (some of them are Muslim) who think there is a world-wide Jewish conspiracy to control the world.
Gabriella, how loyal are Muslims to what the Koran says? Is it blind obedience? If it says kill a certain group etc. will they take that as an injunction from Allah?
Firstly Muslims don't all act as one entity - they are individuals - so I can't be a spokesperson for all billion plus Muslims in the world.

Secondly, does the Quran say kill a certain group? What group is that? As I said, there are over a billion Muslims in the world so once you have worked out which group they are supposed to kill, please let me know. Last time I looked in various conflict-ridden countries there were some Muslims killing other Muslims - does that give you the impression that the Quran tells Muslims to kill Muslims? Is that the group you are referring to?
You've focused on the wrong bit. I was mainly asking how loyal are Muslims to what the Quran says. Is it the gospel truth to them and what it says goes without question? So if it says hop on one leg for a minute on the hour for each hour of some specific afternoon they will do this without question, no ifs no buts?

Nearly Sane

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Re: Oh Dear ?!!?? We're Off Again !!!!
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2015, 06:37:59 PM »
There's both an irony and an issue with the idea of gospel truth here - it implies that statements are not contextual and interpreted and have some basic meaning that is not at all interpretable

Jack Knave

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Re: Oh Dear ?!!?? We're Off Again !!!!
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2015, 08:28:13 PM »
There's both an irony and an issue with the idea of gospel truth here - it implies that statements are not contextual and interpreted and have some basic meaning that is not at all interpretable
It depends on how plain the instruction is. The context is how the person perceives the world they have grown up in and the interpretation will be based on this and their personal experience. I was, however, thinking of those instructions which are pretty plain in their meaning. I believe Muslims are told to pray 5 times a day so the question is do all Muslims do this regardless because it is in the Koran, or do they waiver this on a whim....?

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Oh Dear ?!!?? We're Off Again !!!!
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2015, 11:05:09 PM »
There is no clear instruction in the Quran to pray 5 times a day - that is based on interpretation and what Prophet Mohamed is believed to have practised.

A lot of Shia Muslims pray 3 times a day.

Muslims don't all act the same way - some will be more observant than others of rules e.g. about avoiding intoxicants, or avoiding paying or receiving interest, or avoiding gambling.... or avoiding murdering people.

Some members of a Muslim community who feel they have been oppressed and driven from their homes may unilaterally declare war on their perceived oppressors, while others might think this is a decision to be made only by the leader of that Muslim community, as was done (according to my understanding of Quranic verses) in the time of Prophet Mohamed against the tribes who had expelled the Muslims from Mecca and tried to kill Prophet Mohamed, forcing him to flee and set up a community elsewhere. The Quran talks about fighting those who fight you, but if the enemy inclines to peace, Muslims should also incline towards peace. As NS said, the verses in the Quran also have to be looked at in the context of the events believed to be taking place at the time the verses were revealed.

I have no idea how many Muslims today feel they have been attacked and feel they need to fight back, but haven't noticed a large Muslim army on the attack - IS numbers fighting in the ME are in the thousands, but estimates have ranged from 31,500 to 200,000 depending on who you ask (and who knows if the person making the estimate has a WMD type agenda). That still isn't much for a post-invasion civil war, in an area where there is sectarianism, corruption, and lots of young unemployed men with access to weapons that were abandoned by the Iraqi army, and access to cash from oil sales to buy more weapons and pay more fighters, out of the millions of Muslims in that very volatile region and the billion Muslims world-wide.

I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Nearly Sane

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Re: Oh Dear ?!!?? We're Off Again !!!!
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2015, 01:15:47 AM »
The Westboro Baptist Church think Kim Davis is categorically wrong, is she? What is the correct interpretation of scripture? Even easier, pray tell about how you objectively interpret this post;

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Oh Dear ?!!?? We're Off Again !!!!
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2015, 11:46:32 AM »
BTW G Here's something to think about Islam's view of homosexuality.
Just in case you didn't know, of course ?!!?!?  ;) ;) ::)

http://www.islamawareness.net/Homosexuality/homo.html

MMM They might be liars too. Oh No !!! They've put Quranic quotes in too AAAGGGHHHH

Nick
Yes - this is the usual approach I have come across in religions - that people are required to control their behaviour (whether it is homosexual or heterosexual sexual behaviour or any other behaviour) in line with what they think is morally acceptable to god. And if they find it hard to refrain from behaviours that they want to do, it is a moral test. I usually take that approach to drinking alcohol or if I am attracted to someone I shouldn't be, given that I am married, lots of behaviours and thoughts in fact.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Jack Knave

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Re: Oh Dear ?!!?? We're Off Again !!!!
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2015, 06:55:19 PM »
BTW G Here's something to think about Islam's view of homosexuality.
Just in case you didn't know, of course ?!!?!?  ;) ;) ::)

http://www.islamawareness.net/Homosexuality/homo.html

MMM They might be liars too. Oh No !!! They've put Quranic quotes in too AAAGGGHHHH

Nick
Yes - this is the usual approach I have come across in religions - that people are required to control their behaviour (whether it is homosexual or heterosexual sexual behaviour or any other behaviour) in line with what they think is morally acceptable to god. And if they find it hard to refrain from behaviours that they want to do, it is a moral test. I usually take that approach to drinking alcohol or if I am attracted to someone I shouldn't be, given that I am married, lots of behaviours and thoughts in fact.
Do the Muslims believe in original sin?

I ask because I do wonder sometimes if the Muslims consider why someone has a certain sexual orientation, and who they blame for this as Allah made them did It not, and you usually blame the maker not the product if it goes 'wrong'? I guess the idea of freewill and all that might be a factor here for Muslims as it is for Christians.

jakswan

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Re: Oh Dear ?!!?? We're Off Again !!!!
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2015, 08:54:02 AM »
NOPE No Original Sin in Islam. There's Hadith, so-called saying of their prophet, rubbishing the idea.
SO..... it bring up other 'mysteries' then like your idea of the Maker having faulty goods.
Christians may well then go on about Free Will but if your orientation seems 'fixed' .......

Isn't it all open to interpretation though?
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
- Voltaire

trippymonkey

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Re: Oh Dear ?!!?? We're Off Again !!!!
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2015, 09:16:27 AM »
YES & this is why you can never really argue a point on these boards as nothing seems perfectly set in stone. ;) ::)
A is not always A !!!