Maths question

[Harrowby Hall]

You mean .. like visualize the end effect and let everything else fall into place to achieve it - muscle memory.

If that is trigonometry .. it would explain all the sportsmen with honorary maths degrees.

Not just trigonometry, Udayana. Consider a batsman facing a ball on which the bowler has applied spin, and it is swerving as it follows a parabola over the wicket. He is doing some very serious calculus in order to decide how and where to hit the ball.

He deserves his honorary degree.

[Outrider]

I am not sure you can use maths without doing it?

Your internet posting just got encrypted and decrypted - you used maths, albeit hard-coded into your computer and uploaded in the software, but you didn't do any of the maths.

O.

[Nearly Sane]

I am not sure you can use maths without doing it?

Your internet posting just got encrypted and decrypted - you used maths, albeit hard-coded into your computer and uploaded in the software, but you didn't do any of the maths.

O.

Except none of that applies to the distinction that is being made by Rhiannon as regards Ad_o's use vs doing maths.


The context used changes the possible meanings, and it we change use to lean simply the above then we are back at the bird of prey making the same use of maths.

[Udayana]

You mean .. like visualize the end effect and let everything else fall into place to achieve it - muscle memory.

If that is trigonometry .. it would explain all the sportsmen with honorary maths degrees.

Not just trigonometry, Udayana. Consider a batsman facing a ball on which the bowler has applied spin, and it is swerving as it follows a parabola over the wicket. He is doing some very serious calculus in order to decide how and where to hit the ball.

He deserves his honorary degree.

Thanks, that explains a lot. Is it why Indians are such good mathematicians - or possibly vice versa, such good cricket players?  Anyway we now know who to get on the team in putting together the next Mars shot

[Rhiannon]

I think 'doing' implies a conscious awareness, which 'using' doesn't.

[Udayana]

Agreed. But the very use of "using" is the disagreement here.

A fielder is not "using" calculus to calculate the trajectory of the ball and then catching it in any sense. His/her mind/body are using an entirely different mechanism that can model the same trajectory. There is no encoding for calculus in our cells in the way that there is an  encryption/decryption algorithm in networking software.

[Udayana]

You could contrast with some recent work that shows that some biological processes are sensitive to and "use" quantum effects.

https://www.ted.com/talks/jim_al_khalili_how_quantum_biology_might_explain_life_s_biggest_questions

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/oct/26/youre-powered-by-quantum-mechanics-biology

i.e. despite the birds having no knowledge or intention to use quantum physics, they are using quantum effects to determine their position/route. It doesn't mean that they are using quantum field theory etc to do any calculations.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

When IRL is it necessary to add fractions with different denominators?

Quite often, I should think, but operationally we usually transform the vulgar fraction into a decimal fraction. How about dealing with relative quantities in cooking?

Has this been prompted by a children's homework question?

The purpose of learning mathematics at school is to acquire logical thinking skills ... not just to operate a calculator.

The calculator is one of the bestest inventions ever. Why do it in your head when you can use a calculator? Never liked maths. It's rubbish. 😁

Calculators do not help with maths, they only help with arithmetic which is not the same thing.

As to whether maths is rubbish or not, clearly it is not because without it, the modern World would look very different. Maths is far more important than any crappy religion, of which yours is one.

What an eloquent and well-worded argument  -  you ought to be on Question Time!

First it was '' science vs religion''.
Then, not content with looking totally stupid having proposed this piece of nonsense, they have come up with ''maths vs religion''.

What next from Jeremy? Greggs Pies vs Religion?

[Rhiannon]

Agreed. But the very use of "using" is the disagreement here.

A fielder is not "using" calculus to calculate the trajectory of the ball and then catching it in any sense. His/her mind/body are using an entirely different mechanism that can model the same trajectory. There is no encoding for calculus in our cells in the way that there is an  encryption/decryption algorithm in networking software.

I've played pool - not as much as ad-o, but a fair bit. You work out the angles required to successfully pot shots by eye, but it's a mathematical concept. Similarly I work out how to make a cheese sauce using ratio - I don't measure ingredients, I know if I put that much butter in I need this much flour and that much milk.

[Udayana]

Of-course if you play pool then you can choose how to play it. You might look at the layout and guesstimate the angle of attack - a rough maths, ad-o trusts his eye,and experience, I could take my protractor, ruler and calculator.   

[jeremyp]

It's a trigonometric model

Is it. Do you think that a snooker player unconsciously works out sines and cosines? I'm sceptical on that point.

[jeremyp]

You mean .. like visualize the end effect and let everything else fall into place to achieve it - muscle memory.

If that is trigonometry .. it would explain all the sportsmen with honorary maths degrees.

That's going in the Best Bits thread

[Outrider]

It's a trigonometric model

Is it. Do you think that a snooker player unconsciously works out sines and cosines? I'm sceptical on that point.

No, I don't, because sin and cosine are arithmetic tools to assist in making trigonometric assessments more accurate.

O.

[jeremyp]

It's a trigonometric model

Is it. Do you think that a snooker player unconsciously works out sines and cosines? I'm sceptical on that point.

No, I don't, because sin and cosine are arithmetic tools to assist in making trigonometric assessments more accurate.

I tend to think maths is a bit more than looking at two balls and estimating what a right angle looks like.

[Outrider]

It's a trigonometric model

Is it. Do you think that a snooker player unconsciously works out sines and cosines? I'm sceptical on that point.

No, I don't, because sin and cosine are arithmetic tools to assist in making trigonometric assessments more accurate.

I tend to think maths is a bit more than looking at two balls and estimating what a right angle looks like.

Maths is quite a lot more than that - in exactly the same way that English is more than just looking at the sentence 'See spot run' and noting the lack of capitalisation for the proper noun... but that's part of English, and the assessment of angles in relation to one-another is part of maths, specifically part of trigonometry.

At its simplest it's a visual assessment and an estimate 'This is bigger','this is smaller', 'these are the same'... Then you develop more refined - arithmetic - tools to calculate to greater degrees of precision, or you apply logical principles to determine that certain situations MUST be a certain way without the need to resort to arithmetic.

It's the most basic form of trigonometry, perhaps, but if more people were aware of ideas like that then perhaps fewer people would be afraid of maths and we wouldn't be in a situation where parents see it as some wierd badge of honour to tell each other how their ten year old's maths homework is beyond them.

O.

[Udayana]

Dad: Ready for school tomorrow?
Son: Sure, I've been practicing my maths down at snooker club all evening...