Astrology

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

I agree that astrology is not always 100% reliable because lot depends on interpretation, time of birth recorded and some other individual factors. But then...we know of many doctors who make wrong diagnosis even with all modern equipment available!

As I have said earlier...all science is not physics and many branches of science are not exact or precise sciences....like biology, psychology etc.  Astrology is also one such. Not believing in it is fine...there is no compulsion to believe in anything.... you don't even need to believe in modern medicine for that matter...(as some people tend to say!).

Lot depends on interpretation. Just to give an example...one person is said to have a horoscope very similar to Nehru (India's first PM).  His kin were very proud and expected him to become the PM or something. But they found that he lost his wife early, had to give up his family wealth, had only one daughter who also got widowed early, got cheated by people he believed in and so on. All things that Nehru went through!

While on this subject....I also want to mention here about another form of predictions available in some places in India...called the Nadi Jyotish. This is not strictly astrology (about position of planets). It is about ones entire life details recorded in ancient palm leaves.

Some traditional families in certain small towns in South India have with them ancient palm leaves written centuries ago in ancient tamil. If you visit the person he will take your thumb impression and find the suitable palm leaf. He will read out to you what is written in the leaf and even record it on a CD. The reading will contain all details about you, you life, future and even time and manner of death. He will thereafter give the palm leaf to you since it is of no use to him. 

I have not tried it myself...but you will find hundreds of westerners making a beeline for such readings in recent years. Many of them find it uncanny and almost miraculous. 

The obvious question is...are all 7 billion peoples lives recorded? No!  There are only a few thousand leaves available....but it is said that anyone destined to visit and ask for their palm leaf ...their leaf will be available.   

Just for information.  Have fun! 

Anyway, I hope Shermer keeps up the good work!

Cheers.

Sriram     

[jeremyp]

Hi everyone,

I agree that astrology is not always 100% reliable

A stopped clock is right twice a day. That's the kind of reliability that astrology has.

because lot depends on interpretation, time of birth recorded and some other individual factors.

The only factors that matter are that astrology is bollocks.

I notice you haven't answered any of my previous questions about how it works. Here's two of them, I hope you will give them some thought.

1. What is so special about passing through the birth canal? Does the mother's womb have some protective layer that makes babies immune to the effects of the planets while inside?

2. Does the influence of the planets obey the inverse square law? If so, why doesn't the Earth drown out the effects of everything else? If not, why don't the effects of all the other planets in the galaxy drown out our own solar system?

Here's a new one for you:

3. If it is the Moon's position that counts, why don't horoscopes cycle on a 25 hour basis?

[Sriram]

Jeremyp,

I have already said that we cannot reason it out.  Just as we can't reason out parallel universes existing just inches from us...seven dimensions wrapped around a String....'time' moving backwards....or bodies interacting instantaneously across billions of miles....so also we cannot reason out astrology.

I have already said all this, for heaven's sake.....jeremyp!

Maybe the influence is through the biofield. Maybe everything in the universe has a 'energy field' of some kind that interacts and influences everything else.

We can only try to conduct trials like Shermer has and see if future events and... more importantly...past events and personal characteristics... are correctly told from the horoscope.  Future events can sometimes be wrongly predicted but past events and personal characteristics are often correct. Necessary checks and controls can be introduced while testing.
 

[ippy]

Hi everyone,

I agree that astrology is not always 100% reliable because lot depends on interpretation, time of birth recorded and some other individual factors. But then...we know of many doctors who make wrong diagnosis even with all modern equipment available!

As I have said earlier...all science is not physics and many branches of science are not exact or precise sciences....like biology, psychology etc.  Astrology is also one such. Not believing in it is fine...there is no compulsion to believe in anything.... you don't even need to believe in modern medicine for that matter...(as some people tend to say!).

Lot depends on interpretation. Just to give an example...one person is said to have a horoscope very similar to Nehru (India's first PM).  His kin were very proud and expected him to become the PM or something. But they found that he lost his wife early, had to give up his family wealth, had only one daughter who also got widowed early, got cheated by people he believed in and so on. All things that Nehru went through!

While on this subject....I also want to mention here about another form of predictions available in some places in India...called the Nadi Jyotish. This is not strictly astrology (about position of planets). It is about ones entire life details recorded in ancient palm leaves.

Some traditional families in certain small towns in South India have with them ancient palm leaves written centuries ago in ancient tamil. If you visit the person he will take your thumb impression and find the suitable palm leaf. He will read out to you what is written in the leaf and even record it on a CD. The reading will contain all details about you, you life, future and even time and manner of death. He will thereafter give the palm leaf to you since it is of no use to him. 

I have not tried it myself...but you will find hundreds of westerners making a beeline for such readings in recent years. Many of them find it uncanny and almost miraculous. 

The obvious question is...are all 7 billion peoples lives recorded? No!  There are only a few thousand leaves available....but it is said that anyone destined to visit and ask for their palm leaf ...their leaf will be available.   

Just for information.  Have fun! 

Anyway, I hope Shermer keeps up the good work!

Cheers.

Sriram   

An old army saying that will stand forever "Bullshit baffles brains".

Of course lots of westerners go for that stuff, look at how many westerners are still hold religious beliefs, there will always be gullible people, it looks like gullibility's a built in part of the human brain we'll have to live with.

I would think being an astrologer handing any old bollocks to the gullible has to be lucrative and I don't blame them for taking it up and hope they don't start to believe in the rubbish they're handing out.

ippy     

[jeremyp]

Jeremyp,

I have already said that we cannot reason it out.

You mean you can't reason it out. I can, and the reasoning lead me to the inevitable conclusion that it is bollocks.

I have already said all this, for heaven's sake.....jeremyp!

And I keep saying that astrology is bollocks, clearly with good reason unlike you.

Maybe the influence is through the biofield. Maybe everything in the universe has a 'energy field' of some kind that interacts and influences everything else.

If that is the case, then the relative positions of nearby astronomical bodies would have little effect.

[Red Giant]

Lot depends on interpretation. Just to give an example...one person is said to have a horoscope very similar to Nehru (India's first PM).  His kin were very proud and expected him to become the PM or something. But they found that he lost his wife early, had to give up his family wealth, had only one daughter who also got widowed early, got cheated by people he believed in and so on. All things that Nehru went through!

And if the astrologer had had a clerical mixup and sent the horoscope to the wrong person, that person also would have found things in common with Nehru.

This is often done of course.  Why bother to write a new heap of bullshit if you can just recycle a heap you wrote 5 years ago.  They're all just as accurate whoever you apply them to.

[Harrowby Hall]

I believe that (Godwin's Law alert) Hitler was a great believer in astrology. His horoscopes served him very well ...

[Rhiannon]

Didn't Nancy Reagan have an astrologer?

[Red Giant]

I really don't think we need to denigrate our attempts to understand the Universe.

Considering we only have a lump of meat to do it with, I don't think we need be ashamed of not being up to it.

[jeremyp]

I really don't think we need to denigrate our attempts to understand the Universe.

Considering we only have a lump of meat to do it with, I don't think we need be ashamed of not being up to it.

We seem to be pretty much up to it....

... well some of us are.

[Outrider]

Jeremyp,

I have already said that we cannot reason it out.  Just as we can't reason out parallel universes existing just inches from us...seven dimensions wrapped around a String....'time' moving backwards....or bodies interacting instantaneously across billions of miles....so also we cannot reason out astrology.

I have already said all this, for heaven's sake.....jeremyp!

Maybe the influence is through the biofield. Maybe everything in the universe has a 'energy field' of some kind that interacts and influences everything else.

We can only try to conduct trials like Shermer has and see if future events and... more importantly...past events and personal characteristics... are correctly told from the horoscope.  Future events can sometimes be wrongly predicted but past events and personal characteristics are often correct. Necessary checks and controls can be introduced while testing.

We don't need to reason it out. Astrology doesn't work - we don't need to know what the theoretical mechanisms of it are, because they actually fail to achieve anything.

When studied, astrological predictions proved to be no more nor less accurate than randomly assigning predictions to people. Horoscopes from popular journals proved to be equally applicable to people of any 'star sign', and 'personalised' predictions were in such general language that their 'hit rate' was equally as high when given to random people as it was when given to the people for whom it was intended.

It doesn't matter that 'no-one knows how it works' because we already know it doesn't work.

O.

[Sriram]

Well...that's not what one would conclude from the Shermer video in the OP.

[SusanDoris]

I agree that astrology is not always 100% reliable
...

No, it is 100% unreliable


If some characteristics of a person appear to be correct, they are simply coincidentally so.

 

[Red Giant]

Well...that's not what one would conclude from the Shermer video in the OP.

Yes it is.  You just have to ask yourself the right question.  The question is, how could the same results be achieved without doing any astrology? 

[ippy]

Well...that's not what one would conclude from the Shermer video in the OP.

Sriram have you considered, palmistry, phrenology, reading the tea leaves at the bottom of your cup, tarot and what if they don't agree?

Full moon tonight, I've found the golfing shoes have a better grip when I'm up on the roof howling, look forward to seeing you.

ippy