Astrology

[Rhiannon]

O, just a point about mindfulness and meditation - they aren't about 'taking a moment to calm yourself'. Nor are they woo of course. The point with mindfulness and meditation is to meet things as they are, not distract yourself from them or find ways to ignore them. Wiggs and Shaker are both far more seasoned meditators than I but believe me, there's more to it than just listening to some nice music and taking a few deep breaths.

Will you do me a favour? Buy or borrow Teach Us To Sit Still by the novelist Tim Parks.

Actually, mindfulness and meditation really is just about taking that moment out. Once you've taken that moment, shed the seemingly important demands and pressures, that's when you can focus on what's actually important. I'm not meaning to denigrate its usefulness or utility, I was just attempting to strip away the woo from it.

I'll add Parks to the seemingly endless list

O.

Not really. I could sit here with a cup of herbal tea and some nice music, breathe deeply and within five minutes I'll be made extremely anxious by letting my thoughts run. Meditation is about learning how to meet those thoughts - which very often aren't important and don't reflect reality - with kindness and clarity. Mindfulness is slightly different and is a re focussing of the mind's attention, to the present moment. This can be through mindful action, mindful listening or looking, as well as through mindful awareness of the body.

It's all available in secular form. No woo to see here.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Floo,

Well you would, you being a Capricorn.

Gonnagle.

[OH MY WORLD!]

I am for meditation, that is biblical meditation. And biblical meditation is absolutely not the meditation you will learn in a yoga class. That Hindu based meditation is leading many Christians away from what scripture teaches.
Here is what biblical meditation is and is not.

http://stronginfaith.org/article.php?page=19

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZgsXeZ31X4

[Sriram]

Sriram

Not everyone believes in using something like Astrology to determine things in their life, some prefer to work things out for themselves.

Astrology isn't something I personally believe in, but even if you could "prove" it was true 100% and really worked, I still wouldn't use it to make my life decisions.

Rose,

You are free to live as you want Rose. No one is asking you to use astrology. Secondly, just because astrology could be valid...does not mean everyone is going to use it for everything.  I don't...though I know it is valid.

Astrology is about influences...just as the weather affects us, solar flares affect us, the  moon affects tides, melting ice in Antarctica affects the temperature in UK....and so on.

Its also about predetermination and how initial conditions affect future events. There are very complex mathematical calculations (in Vedic astrology) involved and they can be surprisingly accurate.

Here are some Science Daily articles about how time of birth can affect personality and moods in later life.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/10/141018205411.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101205202510.htm

And they are just scratching the surface here!  There is lot more. 

[BashfulAnthony]

Astrology is the tool of the manipulator, and the charlatan con-man.  This thread is not worthy of sensible discussioin

[floo]

Dear Floo,

Well you would, you being a Capricorn.

Gonnagle.

I am NOT a Capricorn, you got that WRONG!

I don't suppose astrology is any worse than the stuff the fundies/Biblical literalists believe.

[BashfulAnthony]

Astrology is the tool of the manipulator, and the charlatan con-man.  This thread is not worthy of sensible discussioin

It is because sometimes such things frighten people. Some Christians vamp up the evil demon aspect and it creates a kind of superstitious fear.

Have you any evidence that Christians" vamp it up."  And why specifically Christians?

[floo]

Dear Floo,

Well you would, you being a Capricorn.

Gonnagle.

I am NOT a Capricorn, you got that WRONG!

I don't suppose astrology is any worse than the stuff the fundies/Biblical literalist believe.

Nah I reckon Floo is either Taurus or Leo

Probably Taurus lol

Aquarius, actually!

[floo]

What is attributed to those of us who are born under the sign of Aquarius, I have no idea?

[floo]

What is attributed to those of us who are born under the sign of Aquarius, I have no idea?

For a laugh

Taken from here


http://www.cafeastrology.com/articles/aquariuswomanlove.html

(A word of advice if you're trying to get to grips with the Aquarius woman - don't. You can't bottle the four winds in a jar, or tie down the clouds. So don't try. Don't pin her down to a stereotype because she will more than likely buck all expectations and be exactly what you do not expect her to be. More than anything, she is the ultimate non-conformist.

Aquarius is an air sign, but unlike her other light-hearted zodiac sisters, an Aquarius woman is no gentle breeze or dreamy zephyr. She is a tempest filled with an inner force and power, which can be a little scary when you first come into contact with her. Hold on tight and go along for the ride. If you pass through the eye of the storm, you will find a smart, independent, and most of all, original woman at the heart of the hurricane.

Many Aquarians have a visionary, grand, and humanitarian approach to life.

Bursting with brilliant ideas and sizzling with intelligence, some famous Aquarius women include Zsa Zsa Gabor, Virginia Woolf, Germaine Greer, and Oprah Winfrey.)

Xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Four winds in a jar, the heart of a hurricane, that can be kinda scary?
Not a stereotype, nonconformist.

Is that you, Floo?

 

It seems a bit accurate, WOW!

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

Actually the western zodiac system using the sun sign is pretty broad.

In the Vedic system 27 stellar groups (nakshatras) are used which are further divided into 4 sections (padas). So...any individual can be born in one of 108 divisions. A horoscope for any individual is cast based on the moon in one of the 108 divisions at the time of birth.....and sun and other planets in different houses.

The calculations are very complicated and if cast correctly, can be surprisingly accurate.

Cheers.

Sriram

[jeremyp]

Skepticism has become a habit. Many people can't seem to help it any more. They just enjoy being skeptical.

No.

We enjoy having evidence that a claim is true. That's all there is to it.

Many things that were earlier considered as wacko or related to the supernatural or  superstition or blind belief... are now being accepted and even promoted. Yoga and meditations come to mind immediately. The merits of  many traditional systems such as Ayurveda and Acupuncture are now being realised.

That depends on your expectations. None of the above are anything more than placebo in respect of healing properties.

Maybe astrology will also join the ranks of the above systems in course of time.

It already has, firmly in the pseudoscience section.

The shoe is on the other foot.  The same 'upstream' battle that science had to wage against religions is now being waged by many ancient systems of knowledge against the skeptics. It'll all even out eventually IMO.

You seem to be somewhat deluded.

[jakswan]

The calculations are very complicated and if cast correctly, can be surprisingly accurate.

How do you cast a calculation? Let me guess if its not accurate the cast was wrong, if it is accurate then woo woo it works.

[Sriram]

Shermer could take a bigger sample size and try out a similar experiment. Problem is that if there is a possibility of the results going against their perceptions and mindsets, most people are likely to abandon such projects!   

[jakswan]

Shermer could take a bigger sample size and try out a similar experiment. Problem is that if there is a possibility of the results going against their perceptions and mindsets, most people are likely to abandon such projects!   

A conspiracy, get the tin foil ready got some hats to make.

[Sriram]

Yes...Rose. A personal horoscope is bound to be more accurate than the monthly zodiac one. Also as I have mentioned above, the western (Greek) system has only 12 divisions and takes the position of the Sun at any time. The sun being relatively slow, the changes in position for different children born at different times are likely to be very minor.

The Hindu (Vedic) system has 108 divisions and take into account the position of the moon for casting the horoscope. The moon moves from one section (pada) to the other within 6 hours and therefore there is likely to be greater accuracy while casting the horoscope.

I can't understand why you are so apologetic and embarrassed about believing in astrology. Is it just because Jakswan will make a caustic remark?!  Oh..you're better than that surely! 

[King Oberon]

Accurate in what way Sriram?

Predicting the future or giving you an accurate account of a persons personality? 

My friend claims to be psychic and does tarot readings but most of it is based on random/general traits which can be said about us all e.g. moody, calm, hyper etc naturally she tends to believe in anything or everything and is as mad as a box of frogs  Sound familiar? 

It might look nice on paper but like most of your posts lacks any credible scientific evidence to back it up. It appears all these 'experts' you call upon are peddling these things for cash or writing a book about them for the more gullible/desperate amongst us

[Enki]

I remember the resident astrologer on the TV TIMes(anyone remember Tivvy, the mascot by the way?) giving a reading for John F. Kennedy suggesting that the signs were very much in his favour and that he would become an outstanding president, especially in his second term, which he would win. I think it was about two weeks later that he was assassinated. Didn't see that one coming did he/she?

[Nearly Sane]

I am just too young for tivvy but found this

http://www.45cat.com/record/tf636

[Rhiannon]

One I read accurately predicted Chris Martin sitting from Gwynnie Paltrow. Wow that one was a shock.

[Enki]

I am just too young for tivvy but found this

http://www.45cat.com/record/tf636

Thanks, Nearly. Brought back memories. My Dad made a Tivvy for our youngest son out of an old sock, some black wool,  pipe cleaners and some bits of plastic. (He was very creative with his hands.) I've still got it, and it rests on top of a book case. I happened to see it while reading this thread, and that brought the case of the TV TIMES astrologer to mind.

Sorry for the diversion, folks.

[jeremyp]

Yes...Rose. A personal horoscope is bound to be more accurate than the monthly zodiac one. Also as I have mentioned above, the western (Greek) system has only 12 divisions and takes the position of the Sun at any time. The sun being relatively slow, the changes in position for different children born at different times are likely to be very minor.

The Hindu (Vedic) system has 108 divisions and take into account the position of the moon for casting the horoscope. The moon moves from one section (pada) to the other within 6 hours and therefore there is likely to be greater accuracy while casting the horoscope.

I can't understand why you are so apologetic and embarrassed about believing in astrology. Is it just because Jakswan will make a caustic remark?!  Oh..you're better than that surely! 

Sriram, it's all bollocks. What on Earth makes you think that the Moon's position relative to the nearby stars of the Milky Way could have any effect on the personality of somebody born on Earth.

You really should try to engage your brain.

[Udayana]

The thing is people can read something entirely random and find meaning in it. eg The I Ching "works" along similar lines. It is not the moon or yarrow sticks actually affecting anything, but your interpretation of an essentially random set of words in a way that applies to you.

A bit like Boroughs's "cut up" works. or a lot of music, poetry or modern art.

Making "sense" of an essentially meaningless random universe is one of our "talents" - an evolved survival tactic.

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

I guess we have to wait for Shermer to conduct more such trials and prove that astrology does have some merit.

Don't try to reason out every thing. We don't know enough about the world to be able to logically work everything out....and the world may not even fit into our human logic.  It could be completely non-logical.

Cheers.

Sriram 

[jakswan]

Hi everyone,

I guess we have to wait for Shermer to conduct more such trials and prove that astrology does have some merit.

Don't try to reason out every thing. We don't know enough about the world to be able to logically work everything out....and the world may not even fit into our human logic.  It could be completely non-logical.

Cheers.

Sriram

Hi everyone,

Don't listen to anyone that is deluded so much that they start a post with 'hi everyone'.