Astrology

[Harrowby Hall]

Don't try to reason out every thing. We don't know enough about the world to be able to logically work everything out....and the world may not even fit into our human logic.  It could be completely non-logical.

Intellectual copout.

Of course everything is logical. The universe is governed by the laws of physics. I am prepared to accept that there are physical properties that we have yet to discover but ultimately everything is explicable according to the logic of physics.

As a matter of interest, what is so special about birth that makes it so important for astrology? What specific properties does a woman's body possess which makes the child she is carrying impervious to the cosmic influences which will start to direct the child when it is born? Does the amniotic fluid protect the child?

If so, what is in the fluid which is so potent - after all it is mainly water? Could it be urea? If someone is born in, say, a submarine, should his or her horoscope only be cast when the submarine comes to the surface?

What is the specific emission from the star or planet which determines the life plan of the child? Given the inverse-square law, why doesn't the influence of the sun (a star) totally swamp all other stellar and planetary influences, which will be infinitesimally small in comparison?

[Gonnagle]

Dear Harrowby,

The universe is governed by the laws of physics.

Is it. Physics is a man made word.

And, and!! I think this question was asked way back on the old Beeb, us/man is made up of something like 70% water, does the moon affect us?

Gonnagle.

[Outrider]

I guess we have to wait for Shermer to conduct more such trials and prove that astrology does have some merit.

Or we could just review all the current evidence, and the previous trials, and conclude that there's no merit in it whatsoever, whilst acknowledging the excellent use of the Forer Effect that's manifested in most of the astrology columns out there.

Don't try to reason out every thing. We don't know enough about the world to be able to logically work everything out....

So we shouldn't try to work anything out? We should accept any old assertions? No, how about, try to reason out whatever you can, and what you can't reason yet... work out how.

and the world may not even fit into our human logic.

It might not, but it's been pretty reliable so far.

It could be completely non-logical.

And yet water still flows downhill pretty consistently...

O.

[Harrowby Hall]

Dear Harrowby,

The universe is governed by the laws of physics.

Is it. Physics is a man made word.

So what?

What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet
William Shakespeare
Romeo and Juliet Act II, Scene II

Take away the name, the concepts and their effects still remain.

And, and!! I think this question was asked way back on the old Beeb, us/man is made up of something like 70% water, does the moon affect us?

Gonnagle.

And how does the moon affect us? I assume you are referring to the effect on open areas of sea water of the moon's gravitational force.

Just how - at the moment of our birth - does the gravitational force exerted by the moon determine our future?

[Sriram]

Anyone seen the thread on 'Spooky action at a distance'..yet?!

[SqueakyVoice]

Anyone seen the thread on 'Spooky action at a distance'..yet?!

Yes. It's just yet another one of your woo filled wank fests where you frantically try to get your superstitious bollocks to jizz all over science.

[jeremyp]

Hi everyone,

I guess we have to wait for Shermer to conduct more such trials and prove that astrology does have some merit.

No we don't. We already know that astrology has no merit.

the world may not even fit into our human logic.  It could be completely non-logical.

Well from what we have found out about it so far, that is unlikely to be the case.

[jeremyp]

Dear Harrowby,

The universe is governed by the laws of physics.

Is it. Physics is a man made word.

So what? "Tree" is a man made word, but that doesn't mean trees are man made.

I think this question was asked way back on the old Beeb, us/man is made up of something like 70% water, does the moon affect us?

What makes you think water is magically influenced by the Moon?

[Red Giant]

So, if I want to know the future, who should I consult?  An astrologer, or a clairvoyant, or a faker?

It's very telling I think that the real astrologers and clairvoyants aren't up in arms about all the fakers stealing their trade.

[Outrider]

So, if I want to know the future, who should I consult?  An astrologer, or a clairvoyant, or a faker?

It's very telling I think that the real astrologers and clairvoyants aren't up in arms about all the fakers stealing their trade.

Not that it fundamentally changes the point, but is that actually fakers, or did you mean fakirs?

O.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Jeremyp,

So what? "Tree" is a man made word, but that doesn't mean trees are man made.

HELLO!!

Now! do I have a point, curse my lack of education ( I do blame mini skirts, they had a profound effect on my education ) anyway, our Sane ( he of the high intellect ) sent me a post all about ( well actually I can't remember what it was all about ) but the post reminded me that man is just a speck in the great scheme of things, long before man even walked this earth we had trees, gravity, water going downhill, my point ( I think ) did we have pyhsics

Gonnagle.

PS: This post in no way validates the sanity of the said poster.

[ippy]

I agree with J P simply because he's right.

Where astrology shows and proves itself, all at the same time, to be absolute bollocks is in the case of identical twins; do I need to spell it all out, it's so obvious I shouldn't need to.   

ippy

[Udayana]

No it's not obvious - please spell it out ... I'm happy to see it as bollocks but how do identical twins fit in?

[Harrowby Hall]

Dear Jeremyp,

So what? "Tree" is a man made word, but that doesn't mean trees are man made.

HELLO!!

Now! do I have a point, curse my lack of education ( I do blame mini skirts, they had a profound effect on my education ) anyway, our Sane ( he of the high intellect ) sent me a post all about ( well actually I can't remember what it was all about ) but the post reminded me that man is just a speck in the great scheme of things, long before man even walked this earth we had trees, gravity, water going downhill, my point ( I think ) did we have pyhsics

Gonnagle.

PS: This post in no way validates the sanity of the said poster.

To paraphrase jeremyp, "physics" is a man made word but that doesn't mean that physics (or the phenomena that give rise to the concept of physics) is man made.

[Red Giant]

Dear Jeremyp,

So what? "Tree" is a man made word, but that doesn't mean trees are man made.

HELLO!!

Now! do I have a point, curse my lack of education ( I do blame mini skirts, they had a profound effect on my education ) anyway, our Sane ( he of the high intellect ) sent me a post all about ( well actually I can't remember what it was all about ) but the post reminded me that man is just a speck in the great scheme of things, long before man even walked this earth we had trees, gravity, water going downhill, my point ( I think ) did we have pyhsics

Gonnagle.

PS: This post in no way validates the sanity of the said poster.

To paraphrase jeremyp, "physics" is a man made word but that doesn't mean that physics (or the phenomena that give rise to the concept of physics) is man made.

Though in a sense it is.  I don't think we know what the real laws of nature are, we've merely constructed a model that our psychology can handle.

[ippy]

No it's not obvious - please spell it out ... I'm happy to see it as bollocks but how do identical twins fit in?

Oh dear, the clue is in the word, "identical", identical twins, knock knock, identical lives? Knock diddy knock knock, is anyone in?

ippy   

[Udayana]

If you are saying that (according to astrology) they should have identical lives because they are born at the same time, then that would apply to any twins, genetic similarity having nothing to do with it.

And in any case, twins, identical or not , are not born at exactly the same time. I'd expect astrologists (I myself not being familiar with any of it) to say that their lives would follow similar courses with some differences - which would usually be a correct prediction. Also they are not the same person, whatever predictions or analysis provided, assuming it is the same, would be understood differently by each.

[jeremyp]

And in any case, twins, identical or not , are not born at exactly the same time. I'd expect astrologists (I myself not being familiar with any of it) to say that their lives would follow similar courses with some differences - which would usually be a correct prediction.

Would it now?

Anyway, why is it the moment of birth that is important.  What is the difference between "about to be born" and "just born". Astrologers are effectively claiming that some unspecified effect travels from each of the planets - unaffected by distance - through 100 miles of atmosphere and the walls of the building in which the mother is giving birth, but her uterus is possessed of some magical property that stops this influence from getting to the baby until after it is born.

Honestly, astrology is bollocks.

[ippy]

And in any case, twins, identical or not , are not born at exactly the same time. I'd expect astrologists (I myself not being familiar with any of it) to say that their lives would follow similar courses with some differences - which would usually be a correct prediction.

Would it now?

Anyway, why is it the moment of birth that is important.  What is the difference between "about to be born" and "just born". Astrologers are effectively claiming that some unspecified effect travels from each of the planets - unaffected by distance - through 100 miles of atmosphere and the walls of the building in which the mother is giving birth, but her uterus is possessed of some magical property that stops this influence from getting to the baby until after it is born.

Honestly, astrology is bollocks.

What about if it's a rainy day J P, I noticed you didn't have anything to say about that.

ippy

[Udayana]

And in any case, twins, identical or not , are not born at exactly the same time. I'd expect astrologists (I myself not being familiar with any of it) to say that their lives would follow similar courses with some differences - which would usually be a correct prediction.

Would it now?

Anyway, why is it the moment of birth that is important.  What is the difference between "about to be born" and "just born". Astrologers are effectively claiming that some unspecified effect travels from each of the planets - unaffected by distance - through 100 miles of atmosphere and the walls of the building in which the mother is giving birth, but her uterus is possessed of some magical property that stops this influence from getting to the baby until after it is born.

Honestly, astrology is bollocks.

Of-course it  is. But it's wrong to think that astrologers and their ilk are stupid. They have made a good living from the general public for thousands of years. From analysis of chicken innards to receiving communications from aliens in far star systems, only the idiots would provide predictions or propose a system or mechanisms that are properly testable. In the same way as for religion, to look into why people still follow them you need to look to the psychology of the followers, not the daft psychical explanations.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Giant,

Though in a sense it is.  I don't think we know what the real laws of nature are, we've merely constructed a model that our psychology can handle.

Course it is, Godidit, and we in our feeble attempts to explain why or how use physics.

Gonnagle.

[Harrowby Hall]

Dear Giant,

Though in a sense it is.  I don't think we know what the real laws of nature are, we've merely constructed a model that our psychology can handle.

Course it is, Godidit, and we in our feeble attempts to explain why or how use physics.

Gonnagle.

Course it is, Godidit, and we in our feeble attempts to explain why or how use physics.

I hope I'm not asking too much, Gonners, but could you re-state this using English?

I recall, many years ago, hearing someone make a convincing case for God being the laws of physics.

[jeremyp]

Dear Giant,

Though in a sense it is.  I don't think we know what the real laws of nature are, we've merely constructed a model that our psychology can handle.

Course it is, Godidit, and we in our feeble attempts to explain why or how use physics.

Gonnagle.

I really don't think we need to denigrate our attempts to understand the Universe.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Jeremyp,

I really don't think we need to denigrate our attempts to understand the Universe.

Course not, we are all knowing, bit like God.

Gonnagle ( one step away from Sainthood )

[jeremyp]

Dear Jeremyp,

I really don't think we need to denigrate our attempts to understand the Universe.

Course not, we are all knowing, bit like God.

Nor do we need a false dichotomy. There is a continuum between feeble and all knowing.