Deeds not words

[Shaker]

Maybe they don't want to talk about it on here?

Some people like to do good without shouting it out to the world. (That btw is not some kind of attack on those like Hope that do let us know - it's just the way different people work)

It's certainly the way different people work, no question about that.

But there are at least two points against it.

From a Christian perspective - one which you'd naturally think would apply to Hope - there's scriptural backing for not broadcasting your charitable deeds to all the world and his dog. I could supply the appropriate passages if anybody questions this. Others might know chapter and verse off the top of their heads.

And then from a non-religious perspective it can look like the very worst kind of ostentatious attention-seeking or showboating - virtue signalling as they call it nowadays.

[floo]

It's certainly the way different people work, no question about that.

But there are at least two points against it.

From a Christian perspective - one which you'd naturally think would apply to Hope - there's scriptural backing for not broadcasting your charitable deeds to all the world and his dog. I could supply the appropriate passages if anybody questions this. Others might know chapter and verse off the top of their heads.

And then from a non-religious perspective it can look like the very worst kind of ostentatious attention-seeking or showboating - virtue signalling as they call it nowadays.

In defence of Hope, he doesn't go on about his role in the TWAM charity, but brings the charity itself to our attention from time to time, which is fair enough.

[Khatru]

I have never berated a person simply because they are a none believer. I have told the truth things about yourself.
Example: You making remarks in IGNORANCE OF THE FACTS because you never read the bible but feel yourself educated enough about the bibles cover to comment on the inside. This post of yours show yourself to be guilty of berating believers so you are falsely accusing others of doing what you yourself do.

I have spent the last half of this year getting on to mp's electric boards and water people to get the facilities back for a woman in a wheel chair left with none. We prayed to God and was answered. But where were your prayers or concern for this woman... Not a Christian so cannot be bothered to be concerned or offer any thoughts. Had you bothered to read the topic you would know what we Christians get up to.

http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=11643.0

Looking after my own disabled daughter and running after my sister also now ill and needing a wheelchair.
I have helped others run them for hospital appointments. Took someone to local shops and other places like the hospital and yesterday, having done my own housework and a meal for my family, I spent the afternoon at jb's washing her fridge freezer out and pulling it out to hoover and scrub behind. Hoovered the chalet throughout and I also took her a cooked meal up as I have done the last few days.. Including Yoghurts and fruit as she has absolutely no money.

What have you done ye atheist? Besides sit at home and berate Christians who get of their backside and help people for just two reasons.  Love of God and him leading us to help them and a real heartfelt care for others.
You see like our God we are given a heart to really care. We personally do not normally tell others about all the things we do,
For us, it is doing what is really what we should all be doing as normal course.
People do not deserve praise for doing what is the right thing. But God does  because since February when I contacted the people including mp and chased them, he made sure she got her electric supply. Just waiting for water now. Perhaps you might want to add a comment of support and prayer on the thread.

There are many people who do all of the above without needing to be told to do so by an imaginary being.

[Owlswing]

In defence of Hope, he doesn't go on about his role in the TWAM charity, but brings the charity itself to our attention from time to time, which is fair enough.

. . . from time to time . . .

At the end of every single post actually!

[Sassy]

Sass your posts certainly don't do your faith any favours at all, they are most off putting, but maybe that is your intention.

What favours... telling the truth is suppose to do me favours. You see how even your thinking is condemned and ugly.
How you deliberately ask....

but what to what practical use do they put their faith to make the lives of others better?

then have the nerve to write the above. How evil and twisted are you?


I did nothing wrong in helping JB, I did nothing for self-service and I love the LORD my God.
For what did I do wrong in helping JB and telling you when asked? What was wrong in that post? What disservice did I do myself answering your question honestly?

 But the truth is if you look at yourself, you are everything you write about Christians.

You have no power and you have no truth just ugliness and lies about others whom you have never met.
Sad being you...

HONEST ANSWER: NOTHING.  The honest truth is you did yourself a disservice.

[Sassy]

There are many people who do all of the above without needing to be told to do so by an imaginary being.

Name them...
Where were those people who came across Julie all those years and did nothing...

The fact is that God is not an imaginary being but even at your level of thinking he still gets more done than those many people whom you cannot name but did nothing in this case.

[ProfessorDavey]

In defence of Hope, he doesn't go on about his role in the TWAM charity, but brings the charity itself to our attention from time to time, which is fair enough.

Not saying this is wrong, but I think he brings it to our attention all the time, as it is on his strap line every time he posts. So I think we are constantly reminded of the charity and also by inference his role in it.

[floo]

Not saying this is wrong, but I think he brings it to our attention all the time, as it is on his strap line every time he posts. So I think we are constantly reminded of the charity and also by inference his role in it.

Oh come on I don't see anything wrong in using it as a signature, do we actually read a person's signature every time we read their posts, I certainly don't.

[ProfessorDavey]

Oh come on I don't see anything wrong in using it as a signature, do we actually read a person's signature every time we read their posts, I certainly don't.

I made it clear that I didn't necessarily think it wrong, just pointing out that Hope reminds us of this charity and his work associated with it constantly when he posts.

[Brownie]

There's nothing wrong with promoting a cause that will be close to many people's hearts, letting it be known that you are involved but without blowing your own trumpet, eg, "I did that", "I was responsible for this", "This was built because of my fundraising".  No-one on here does that in any way and if they did, it would not go down well.

We are not supposed to let our right hand know what our left is doing with regard to charity and unless we are trying to highlight a particular charity, doing voluntary work is not talked about it any detail.  Non-believers feel much the same, it's a bit embarrassing to go on about what we do, boasting even.  Shaker says: "And then from a non-religious perspective it can look like the very worst kind of ostentatious attention-seeking or showboating - virtue signalling as they call it nowadays".
 
We choose to do things, no-one is forcing us.

Floo asked what others did as a 'witness' (my words) to their faith.  If they respond and tell us, there's no point in criticising them for it as they were specifically asked to say.

[Rhiannon]

This whole thread makes me uncomfortable. I don't like the question asked and I don't like the nature of some of the replies either.

[Owlswing]

. . . from time to time . . .

At the end of every single post actually!

Please note: any criticism seen in this response is directed at Floo and not at Hope! For once!

[ProfessorDavey]

Ask for them to be exempted from Christian worship, that should be possible, unless of course it is a church school.

All children have the right to be exempted from religious worship in schools, whether it is a faith school or not.

[ProfessorDavey]

It's only twice a year. I think it's good practice for the weddings and baptisms to come.

On the first point, that may well be true.

But on the second, you sound a bit stuck in the 1970s - don't forget that the majority of weddings are civil and the vast majority of children aren't baptised.

[Shaker]

All children have the right to be exempted from religious worship in schools, whether it is a faith school or not.

I thought that that was - or used to be - the case only for sixth formers? Unless I'm mistaken, or the law has changed.

[Rhiannon]

I thought that that was - or used to be - the case only for sixth formers? Unless I'm mistaken, or the law has changed.

My daughter was offered exemption at her state primary but chose instead (with the head's backing) not to say the prayers and miss out the bits of the hymns she didn't feel right singing.

[ProfessorDavey]

I thought that that was - or used to be - the case only for sixth formers? Unless I'm mistaken, or the law has changed.

Children have the right to be exempted from religious worship, but it is their parents that must make the request. Sorry if my response was a bit confusing.

[ProfessorDavey]

My daughter was offered exemption at her state primary but chose instead (with the head's backing) not to say the prayers and miss out the bits of the hymns she didn't feel right singing.

The problem is, of course, that the religious elements in an assembly are usually woven into completely secular elements about the school community, who won a prize at the recent music competition, whether the netball team won or lost etc etc. So if you exempt yourself from the religious bit you are also missing out on the non religious stuff too. Would be better if religious worship and school assemblies were entirely separate things making it easier for a child to be exempted from the former without feeling they are somehow missing out on, and not part of, the school community.

[Khatru]

Name them...
Where were those people who came across Julie all those years and did nothing...

The fact is that God is not an imaginary being but even at your level of thinking he still gets more done than those many people whom you cannot name but did nothing in this case.

Time and again I've heard Christians ask non-believers how they know what moral path to tread when they haven't fot an imaginary friend telling them what to do.

Yet we agnostics and atheists do just that.  Unlike you lot who need to be told to do good, unbelievers do,so,of their own volition.

Your post is a tacit admittance that, without your invisible sky pixie to keep you on the straight and narrow, you'd become a slavering monster of depravity.  Wheras we unbelievers are quite capable of policing our own morals.

[Sebastian Toe]

Where were those people who came across Julie all those years and did nothing...

Where were they then?
You tell us....you name them, go on.

Were those 'do nothing' people all atheists, all agnostics or were some of them maybe, just maybe - Christians?

[Rhiannon]

The problem is, of course, that the religious elements in an assembly are usually woven into completely secular elements about the school community, who won a prize at the recent music competition, whether the netball team won or lost etc etc. So if you exempt yourself from the religious bit you are also missing out on the non religious stuff too. Would be better if religious worship and school assemblies were entirely separate things making it easier for a child to be exempted from the former without feeling they are somehow missing out on, and not part of, the school community.

My daughter didn't want to draw attention to herself so didn't want to not be in assembly at all. The head actually modified the words of some hymns to give them a more secular edge, much to the annoyance of the local minister.

[Rhiannon]

On the first point, that may well be true.

But on the second, you sound a bit stuck in the 1970s - don't forget that the majority of weddings are civil and the vast majority of children aren't baptised.

So far the only weddings my kids have been to have been in church but I try to get out of as many of the wretched things as I can. I'm with Colin Firth on weddings - when everyone else is weeping with emotion I'm weeping with boredom. Hence I think the practice of boring harvest festivals and carol services useful.

[Sassy]

My daughter was offered exemption at her state primary but chose instead (with the head's backing) not to say the prayers and miss out the bits of the hymns she didn't feel right singing.

Before or after you lost your faith... If lost is the right word considering you show no signs of having really held a heart felt faith.

Why was your daughter offered something and not other children? Am I right in thinking you personally asked for her not to take part and this was offered as a compromise.  Your daughter indoctrinated from your pagan beliefs. I was a believer from a child very early on do not remember not believing in God. I can see no reason why I would ask for exemption from prayers or hymms unless someone had somehow put it in my head. Thankfully, my parents never forced belief on us. Never forced their beliefs on us, either. I believe eventually children will not thank parents who force their beliefs onto them.
Can you really live an eternity knowing you taught your children the road to eternal separation from God?

As Christ said:


King James Bible
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

My children chose for themselves.... It is important that we do not impose our beliefs on our children.
But we do have a promise from God for our children so do not require that way.

[Sassy]

Children have the right to be exempted from religious worship, but it is their parents that must make the request. Sorry if my response was a bit confusing.

No! They should be given all the choices and allowed to make the decision.

A parent does not always know best. If we choose we choose according to what we believe.
But children have a natural belief in God which is unaltered if allowed to blossom on it's own.

I believe that eventually we all make our own choice. But atheists have no right to dictate what goes on in a Christian School.
This Country has become a less moral and more hurtful place since they tried to get rid of Christianity and it's moral concepts.

In truth the godless are the ones committing the offences regardless of the walk of life they come from.

It isn't a class thing now it is a damn right of a false cry of 'live and let live' but only if it is by the atheists rules.

[Sassy]

Time and again I've heard Christians ask non-believers how they know what moral path to tread when they haven't fot an imaginary friend telling them what to do.

What a load of rubbish... I do not believe for one moment that a word of that is correct.
We all know as Christians that if you do not belong to God and Christ, then you belong to devil.
No middle fence to sit on just one side or the other.  Faith isn't about a moral path... You made it up and what is more we all know you did.

Yet we agnostics and atheists do just that.  Unlike you lot who need to be told to do good, unbelievers do,so,of their own volition.

Again, you making things up. It stands to reason that if Christ said:

King James Bible
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

The truth is that those who seek righteousness are more likely to find the truth about God and Christ so do good than atheists.
We do not need to be told to do good because it is part of our new nature in Christ through the power of God.
Jesus Christ, his good was in that he cured the lame, healed the sick, made the dumb speak, the blind were healed and could see. Where do those good works get done by everyday atheists?

You the good works that Christians do are prepared by God for them.

King James Bible
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Your post is a tacit admittance that, without your invisible sky pixie to keep you on the straight and narrow, you'd become a slavering monster of depravity.  Wheras we unbelievers are quite capable of policing our own morals.

Whereas your post just proves that even common sense escapes you.  It shows we unlike yourself are capable of seeking truth and capable of knowing the truth. You cannot even be bothered to learn what the NT and OT teaches you about the powers of God that change a believers life.  You cannot even learn about Christianity let alone find your way out of a paper bag.

You are fast becoming a laughing stock... Don't see Christians making ignorant statements about atheists do you?
You see believers have seen both sides of the fence. Your way doesn't work because it does not rely on truth.