Higher Consciousness

[Maeght]

Could so called 'higher consciousness' just refer to people who have talents not all of us possess, like those who are good musicians, for instance?

I suspect that 'higher consciousness' arose from its analogy with vision and the ability to broaden it by rising up to a higher position as you might in a helicopter.  The perspective changes from that of somebody who may have spent a lifetime narrowly focused on immediate surroundings.  I'm not sure what you mean by 'good musician', but some may have just focused on honing a skill with a musical instrument.  Another may have done the same but have also realised a potential to express themselves as a composer.  Realisation of hidden potential might be associated with what the term 'higher consciousness' is meant to represent.  The Christian term 'ascension' also implies climbing up to something higher.

Having thought about it I would think an ear for music or an appreciation of music would be better than good at music - as I see it.

[ekim]

Could so called 'higher consciousness' just refer to people who have talents not all of us possess, like those who are good musicians, for instance?

I suspect that 'higher consciousness' arose from its analogy with vision and the ability to broaden it by rising up to a higher position as you might in a helicopter.  The perspective changes from that of somebody who may have spent a lifetime narrowly focused on immediate surroundings.  I'm not sure what you mean by 'good musician', but some may have just focused on honing a skill with a musical instrument.  Another may have done the same but have also realised a potential to express themselves as a composer.  Realisation of hidden potential might be associated with what the term 'higher consciousness' is meant to represent.  The Christian term 'ascension' also implies climbing up to something higher.

Having thought about it I would think an ear for music or an appreciation of music would be better than good at music - as I see it.

Perhaps so.  It makes you wonder how Beethoven continued composing music after he became deaf.

[Rhiannon]

My personal take us that our 'higher self' is the part of us that doesn't get caught up in the stories of everyday - the silliness, angst, all the misguided thinking that makes us anxious, cross and unhappy.

I don't quite get that one?

We live in our heads much if the time, making judgements, fretting, making poor decisions, often in reaction to things we think happen to us. Our 'higher self', if you want to call it that, is the one that steps aside from the constant internal chatter and sees things as they really are.

I do think we need to be wary of thinking 'higher self' or 'higher consciousness' means having a special talent or appreciation for something. It doesn't - anyone can reflect and question their thinking and the stories they live with, and live better lives with more contentment and less distress.

[Nearly Sane]

Things as they really are? Wow, there are bits of me that can do that? How does that work? What are thin as they really are?

[floo]

My personal take us that our 'higher self' is the part of us that doesn't get caught up in the stories of everyday - the silliness, angst, all the misguided thinking that makes us anxious, cross and unhappy.

I don't quite get that one?

We live in our heads much if the time, making judgements, fretting, making poor decisions, often in reaction to things we think happen to us. Our 'higher self', if you want to call it that, is the one that steps aside from the constant internal chatter and sees things as they really are.

I do think we need to be wary of thinking 'higher self' or 'higher consciousness' means having a special talent or appreciation for something. It doesn't - anyone can reflect and question their thinking and the stories they live with, and live better lives with more contentment and less distress.

I would gave said that was all part of normal thinking.

[Rhiannon]

 

Ok, perhaps a better way if putting it is seeing things as they arent? It's all just a story but we tend to believe our stories like they are real. We don't have to do that though, and we act from a higher place when we remember that.

[Rhiannon]

My personal take us that our 'higher self' is the part of us that doesn't get caught up in the stories of everyday - the silliness, angst, all the misguided thinking that makes us anxious, cross and unhappy.

I don't quite get that one?

We live in our heads much if the time, making judgements, fretting, making poor decisions, often in reaction to things we think happen to us. Our 'higher self', if you want to call it that, is the one that steps aside from the constant internal chatter and sees things as they really are.

I do think we need to be wary of thinking 'higher self' or 'higher consciousness' means having a special talent or appreciation for something. It doesn't - anyone can reflect and question their thinking and the stories they live with, and live better lives with more contentment and less distress.

I would gave said that was all part of normal thinking.

You could google a list of CBT thinking errors and see how many you do. The first time I looked at it I ticked all of them. Most had a multitude of ticks.

[floo]

Ok, perhaps a better way if putting it is seeing things as they arent? It's all just a story but we tend to believe our stories like they are real. We don't have to do that though, and we act from a higher place when we remember that.

Sorry I am not sure what you mean?

[Rhiannon]

Ok, perhaps a better way if putting it is seeing things as they arent? It's all just a story but we tend to believe our stories like they are real. We don't have to do that though, and we act from a higher place when we remember that.

Sorry I am not sure what you mean?

Ok, suppose I'm out shopping and I see a friend and she ignores me. I could believe my story about how rude she is, or how hateful I am. Or I could assume that she probably didn't see me.

I believed stories about myself that weren't very nice. I am working towards getting better ones.

[Maeght]

Could so called 'higher consciousness' just refer to people who have talents not all of us possess, like those who are good musicians, for instance?

I suspect that 'higher consciousness' arose from its analogy with vision and the ability to broaden it by rising up to a higher position as you might in a helicopter.  The perspective changes from that of somebody who may have spent a lifetime narrowly focused on immediate surroundings.  I'm not sure what you mean by 'good musician', but some may have just focused on honing a skill with a musical instrument.  Another may have done the same but have also realised a potential to express themselves as a composer.  Realisation of hidden potential might be associated with what the term 'higher consciousness' is meant to represent.  The Christian term 'ascension' also implies climbing up to something higher.

Having thought about it I would think an ear for music or an appreciation of music would be better than good at music - as I see it.

Perhaps so.  It makes you wonder how Beethoven continued composing music after he became deaf.

Must say it it didn't make me wonder that 

[Nearly Sane]

This just reads like woo here. I am reminded of Johnson's stone kicking refutation of Berkeley. Having a way of dealing with the vicissitudes of life that focusses on the gap between what we experience and a larger perspective is just a tactic. Today is the anniversary of the Aberfan tragedy - the waffle about higher consciousness or higher places seems to me a denigration of the what appears to be real destruction and suffering caused by that tragedy.


We indulge ourselves with this idea that there are clearer perspectives. They are just different and the, to me, rather poncy idea that you can deal with what seems real by some movement to see it as illusory is an indulgence for those who have time to do so.

[Nearly Sane]

Note, if stuff works to get you through the day, that's great. But we are back at the whole issue of it being called Higher. This sort of stuff is just the tactic

[Rhiannon]

I made myself extremely miserable by getting caught up in thinking crap. Through CBT I learned that much of it wasn't true. It's not woo, it's something that works. And it stopped me from going round the bend. You might think it self indulgent but it meant my kids got their mother back. I can't do anything about the tragedies that happen but I can do all I can to give my family the strongest possible base in which to deal with life, including not getting caught up in shit that doesn't matter.

[Rhiannon]

The reason I call it the higher self is because I had friends doing ATP. They couldn't get on with the 'higher power' stuff of AA and were ready to chuck it in. I suggested that they thought of their higher power as the place within themselves that knew what to do for the best. They kept going.

[Nearly Sane]

As per previous comments, whatever gets you through the day fine, but it isn't about how things are or are not. Tactics are fine, claiming that anyone using them is somehow 'higher' or if someone gets by by other ways is somehow not seeing things that they should is what seems indulgent.

[Nearly Sane]

You have people who know what to do for the best? Dear Dawkins, I just try to get by. Again this reads like woo dressed up with its sleekit friend, anecdote. I am happy that CBT works, but it is already a choice about what works means. I think more support needs to be given to CBT but all the idea that we are talking about things that are on.some scale better misses the point to me. Pragmatism makes sense to me, a move beyond that is indulgence.

[Nearly Sane]

Just to note I am struggling with discussion of CBT given CMG's raising of one of the other meanings of the acronym previously

[Rhiannon]

As per previous comments, whatever gets you through the day fine, but it isn't about how things are or are not. Tactics are fine, claiming that anyone using them is somehow 'higher' or if someone gets by by other ways is somehow not seeing things that they should is what seems indulgent.

Why do you think that I would say anyone is 'higher' than another? It's just a label, it's meaningless.

You don't think that magical thinking or fortune telling are thinking errors? You think it's fine to clutch a lucky rabbits foot 'if it gets you through the day' and blame yourself if disaster befalls? Because that's all we're talking about.

[Nearly Sane]

Perhaps because it is in a thread called higher consciousness which you have then described as what you think higher means?


And yep, if clutching a rabbit foot works for you, fine. I can think you are wrong in doing it but not going to be saying my thinking is higher or that it would work for you. Again as noted I think CBT is valuable and we should invest more in it because it 'works', i.e. better than nothing or placebo but it doesn't  mean it is anything more than getting through the day to a standard/view that we have deemed acceptable

[Rhiannon]

I'm just trying to express how I think these ideas can be helpful to the individual. I don't live from a 'higher' perspective but if I can question the thinking that distresses me then I feel better. Sriram calls it higher consciousness; Udayana calls it self-reflection. I would call it questioning your thinking.

Keeping a lucky rabbits foot is fine if it enables you to function thinking you and your loved ones are safe. The moment something happens you are in the shit - was it your fault for not having enough faith in the rabbits foot? Perhaps you need more rabbit's feet? Maybe your guardian angels can sort it - let's get some lucky crystals.

Yeah, next time I'm with a bunch of people with anxiety I'll hand out the lucky pixie charms. Perhaps the NHS should dish them out instead of running GAD courses, it makes no odds.

[Nearly Sane]

If something works better than nothing and placebo, we go with it. I stated it clearly. If it was homeopathy, crystals or rabbits feet, fine! I think that there are clear reasons why CBT works BUT I wouldn't describe it as acting from a higher place which you have done.

[Rhiannon]

No, that is you calling it that. As I said, when people talk about 'higher' this it that and struggle with it I find it a useful way of understanding it. There are situations where it helps.

I don't know if Sriram thinks his higher consciousness means superiority; I do not.

[Udayana]

From his earlier post it certainly sounded as though Sriram did see it as superior. The film itself spins it that way. If you are seeing things from a seemingly more detached, objective, perspective you might well feel superior or describe your state as "higher". But this is also true when your "high" is drug or exercise, endorphin, induced.

 It is not in itself any more objective, just a rearrangement of your view or way of thinking from which you may or may not have insights you might not otherwise encounter.

[Rhiannon]

I haven't watched the film. But like many people with mental health issues I have/had very low self esteem, started in childhood and cemented in adulthood. It's not detached to question whether one's poor opinion of oneself is justified, it's just kind.

Again I can't speak for Sriram, but for me it has nothing to do with superiority, but a personal reminder that I can do and be better than I believed.

[Udayana]

Yes, I can see that... feel much the same way. 

Incidentally I noticed in today's paper that they are introducing mindfulness classes in prisons, in an attempt to reduce the levels of aggression and violence.