Proselytism

[ippy]

Heya iipy chops,

This is special just for you. Merry Christmas!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AUE4ZrMItI

Ta very much Woody, very seasonal, I've got a sympathetic tree up in the loft ready for the Isaac Newton's birthday celebrations on the 25-12 this year I'm looking forward to that, hope you have a good time all of the time, I wish you well.

ippy

[BashfulAnthony]

Heya iipy chops,

This is special just for you. Merry Christmas!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AUE4ZrMItI

Ta very much Woody, very seasonal, I've got a sympathetic tree up in the loft ready for the Isaac Newton's birthday celebrations on the 25-12 this year I'm looking forward to that, hope you have a good time all of the time, I wish you well.

ippy

So, no Christmas cards, presents for the family and all the kiddies; no mention of anything to do with the Christian festival, or participation in it?  No visits to such things as Nativities?  A reminder to tell all friends, family,etc, not to send you cards or anything to do with Christmas?  Could it just be that you are a hypocrite, and a pretty big one?

[Owlswing]

Heya iipy chops,

This is special just for you. Merry Christmas!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AUE4ZrMItI

Ta very much Woody, very seasonal, I've got a sympathetic tree up in the loft ready for the Isaac Newton's birthday celebrations on the 25-12 this year I'm looking forward to that, hope you have a good time all of the time, I wish you well.

ippy

Not a Christmas tree in our home - a Yule log, yes.

My daughters and I split things along religious lines.

Yule cards and presents for the pagans on December 21 and Christmas presents and cards for those of that persuasion on December 25 and, strange thought it may seem considering soem of the comments by the Christians on this Forum, our Christian friends find this perfectly acceptable.

[BashfulAnthony]

To spend so much time denying Christianity, and religion generally, and then send Christmas presents, is pure, unadulterated, hypocrisy!

[Owlswing]

To spend so much time denying Christianity, and religion generally, and then send Christmas presents, is pure, unadulterated, hypocrisy!

All right, just this once I will answer you.

I do NOT deny Christianity, which, if you bothered to actually read my posts instead of thinking, in that lump of cold porrige that you use instead of a brain, that you know what it says just because it was posted by me, you would see that what I deny is Christianity's claim to be the one true religion, based upon the one true god!

I have said it on here a thousand times - well not that many, but too many to count - as far as I am concerned everyone is entitled to their reigion of choice, or none, but I expect the same consideration from them - and it is about time the you acknowleged that, accepted it and gave me that consideration!

END OF LINE!   

[ProfessorDavey]

To spend so much time denying Christianity, and religion generally, and then send Christmas presents, is pure, unadulterated, hypocrisy!

Why? I like celebrating the mid winter as much as the next person.

And before you go - but its called 'CHRIST-mas', I presume you don't believe anyone should celebrate Easter unless they are into pagan spring deities.

The hypocrisy here is to think that you mustn't be allowed to celebrate Christmas except in a Christian manner, but think it's OK to celebrate Easter in anything other than a pagan celebration of spring kind of manner.

[BashfulAnthony]

To spend so much time denying Christianity, and religion generally, and then send Christmas presents, is pure, unadulterated, hypocrisy!

Why? I like celebrating the mid winter as much as the next person.

And before you go - but its called 'CHRIST-mas', I presume you don't believe anyone should celebrate Easter unless they are into pagan spring deities.

So, you refrain from addressing any aspect of the Christian festivities?  Or are you just another hypocrite?

At Easter I celebrate on specific dates, regardless of any pagan associations.  Pagans can celebrate as they like, as long as they don't adhere to Christian dates and times.

[BeRational]

To spend so much time denying Christianity, and religion generally, and then send Christmas presents, is pure, unadulterated, hypocrisy!

Why? I like celebrating the mid winter as much as the next person.

And before you go - but its called 'CHRIST-mas', I presume you don't believe anyone should celebrate Easter unless they are into pagan spring deities.

So, you refrain from addressing any aspect of the Christian festivities?  Or are you just another hypocrite?

You mean the holidays?

I understood the end of year celebrations were originally pagan and just cop-opted by christianity?

[Owlswing]

To spend so much time denying Christianity, and religion generally, and then send Christmas presents, is pure, unadulterated, hypocrisy!

Why? I like celebrating the mid winter as much as the next person.

And before you go - but its called 'CHRIST-mas', I presume you don't believe anyone should celebrate Easter unless they are into pagan spring deities.

So, you refrain from addressing any aspect of the Christian festivities?  Or are you just another hypocrite?

You mean the holidays?

I understood the end of year celebrations were originally pagan and just cop-opted by christianity?

Most of the so-called Christian Holy Days were nicked from the pagans in order to get them to accept chistianity by using the same days, oh, and, of course, building their churches on the spots where the pagans worshipped.

Duplicitous aren't (weren't) they?

[Outrider]

To spend so much time denying Christianity, and religion generally, and then send Christmas presents, is pure, unadulterated, hypocrisy!

Why? There's been a midwinter festival since long before anyone made up Christianity, and Christianity deliberately co-opted both the pagan festival in Europe and many of its trappings.

'Christmas' for historical and cultural reasons, is just the modern word for 'midwinter festival', and it's a cultural event as much - probably more - these days as a religious one.

If you want to bang on to Jesus on his birthday, you knock yourself out, but I'll celebrate what I want, when I want, how I want, thank you very much.

O.

[BashfulAnthony]

To spend so much time denying Christianity, and religion generally, and then send Christmas presents, is pure, unadulterated, hypocrisy!

Why? I like celebrating the mid winter as much as the next person.

And before you go - but its called 'CHRIST-mas', I presume you don't believe anyone should celebrate Easter unless they are into pagan spring deities.

So, you refrain from addressing any aspect of the Christian festivities?  Or are you just another hypocrite?

You mean the holidays?

I understood the end of year celebrations were originally pagan and just cop-opted by christianity?

Whether they were or not, the point is, do atheists adhere to these now generally accepted Christian days?  If so, they are hypocrites.  "Christianity" requires a capital letter, as it is a proper noun.

[Outrider]

Whether they were or not, the point is, do atheists adhere to these now generally accepted Christian days?  If so, they are hypocrites.  "Christianity" requires a capital letter, as it is a proper noun.

So we're not allowed to celebrate Christmas because we're not Christians, but we're not allowed to drop Christmas because the Christians will cry about it - see the recent media articles about Starbucks' choice of cups for the holiday season.

Christmas is a cultural event that has moved beyond the purely religious institution it may have once been, just as it has moved beyond the pagan festival it was before the Christians hijacked it.

Like marriage, it was there before Christians and we won't be dictated to about how we treat these civil institutions.

O.

O.

[Shaker]

'Christmas' for historical and cultural reasons, is just the modern word for 'midwinter festival', and it's a cultural event as much - probably more - these days as a religious one.

You didn't need the 'probably' there; there's absolutely no question that for the overwhelming majority (and I don't just mean in Britain but everywhere in the world where Christmas is celebrated), Christmas is a root-and-branch secular public holiday associated purely with family time, gift-giving and over-indulgence.

Sad that something so obvious should still need to be said, but there it is.

[BashfulAnthony]

Whether they were or not, the point is, do atheists adhere to these now generally accepted Christian days?  If so, they are hypocrites.  "Christianity" requires a capital letter, as it is a proper noun.

So we're not allowed to celebrate Christmas because we're not Christians, but we're not allowed to drop Christmas because the Christians will cry about it - see the recent media articles about Starbucks' choice of cups for the holiday season.

Christmas is a cultural event that has moved beyond the purely religious institution it may have once been, just as it has moved beyond the pagan festival it was before the Christians hijacked it.

Like marriage, it was there before Christians and we won't be dictated to about how we treat these civil institutions.

O.

O.

Abject nonsense.  Christmas is a Christian Festival now, and you hypocrites are simply clutching at straws to try and justify indulging in things Christmassy.  Have the courage of your "convictions!"

[Nearly Sane]

Isn't this Christmas stuff off topic and is it just me or does the annual non Christians shouldn't celebrate Christmas thread get earlier each year?

[ProfessorDavey]

So, you refrain from addressing any aspect of the Christian festivities?  Or are you just another hypocrite?

I'm not the one claiming some kind of monopoly on festivals. I have no problem with people celebrating Christmas however they wish, all the way from one extreme, as a purely Christian festival (and therefore with nothing associated with the seasonal celebration), through to a purely seasonal celebration, without reference to the Christian meaning. Frankly most people celebrate in a manner that mixes the two in some proportion, and that's fine with me. You're the one who seems to have a problem with this, not me so there is no hypocrisy on my part.

At Easter I celebrate on specific dates, regardless of any pagan associations.  Pagans can celebrate as they like, as long as they don't adhere to Christian dates and times.

But in the UK we call it Easter, not passion or any other such name which has a Christian connotations. So if you call it Easter, then to avoid claims of hypocrisy on your part (not mine remember as I'm relaxed about how people celebrate) then it is a pagan celebration, not a Christian one. So if non Christians are hypocrites for celebrating Christmas then non-pagans are just as hypocritical for celebrating Easter.

But I reiterate again - I don't care - celebrate as you wish - all these festivals are multifaceted, incorporating all sorts of religious and cultural influences, and also they evolve over time.

[ProfessorDavey]

Whether they were or not, the point is, do atheists adhere to these now generally accepted Christian days?  If so, they are hypocrites.  "Christianity" requires a capital letter, as it is a proper noun.

So we're not allowed to celebrate Christmas because we're not Christians, but we're not allowed to drop Christmas because the Christians will cry about it - see the recent media articles about Starbucks' choice of cups for the holiday season.

Christmas is a cultural event that has moved beyond the purely religious institution it may have once been, just as it has moved beyond the pagan festival it was before the Christians hijacked it.

Like marriage, it was there before Christians and we won't be dictated to about how we treat these civil institutions.

O.

O.

Abject nonsense.  Christmas is a Christian Festival now, and you hypocrites are simply clutching at straws to try and justify indulging in things Christmassy.  Have the courage of your "convictions!"

In which case Easter is a pagan festival and you are a hypocrite for celebrating it in any other manner than a pagan one.

[OH MY WORLD!]

Dearest Matty,
I don't find it strange that you do the yule thingy as well as give gifts to Christians, not strange at all since you are a witch. And the reality is I find it strange you announce to your crowds of Christian friends that you also give yule things to pagans. Oh and I called ya a witch cause ya claim to be one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WWrBPpya2w

[Outrider]

Abject nonsense.  Christmas is a Christian Festival now, and you hypocrites are simply clutching at straws to try and justify indulging in things Christmassy.  Have the courage of your "convictions!"

I am indulging in Christmassy things, yes - trees (pagan), Yule logs (pagan), two weeks at Disney in Florida (capitalist?), ignoring the Queen's Speech (post-modernist?), eating well and spending time with my family. Those are Christmassy things, they aren't explicitly Christian things - Christmas has moved way, way beyond fairy tales about magic babies being born in stables.

O.

[Hope]

But in the UK we call it Easter, not passion or any other such name which has a Christian connotations. So if you call it Easter, then to avoid claims of hypocrisy on your part (not mine remember as I'm relaxed about how people celebrate) then it is a pagan celebration, not a Christian one. So if non Christians are hypocrites for celebrating Christmas then non-pagans are just as hypocritical for celebrating Easter.

But I reiterate again - I don't care - celebrate as you wish - all these festivals are multifaceted, incorporating all sorts of religious and cultural influences, and also they evolve over time.

Actually, PD, Easter is not a pagan celebration and never has been.  Eastrun was/is the pagan festival, and whilst I accept that the term 'Easter' is related to that name and the goddess it was in celebration of, 'Easter' as such is a Christianised form of the word.  Furthermore, that is only an Anglo-Germanic link.  Many other European languages have terms that derive from the Latin 'pasche' (as in Paschal), which is ultimately a cognate of the Hebrew Pesah.

In the long run, BA is talking nonsense as are you.

[Outrider]

Whether they were or not, the point is, do atheists adhere to these now generally accepted Christian days?  If so, they are hypocrites.  "Christianity" requires a capital letter, as it is a proper noun.

So we're not allowed to celebrate Christmas because we're not Christians, but we're not allowed to drop Christmas because the Christians will cry about it - see the recent media articles about Starbucks' choice of cups for the holiday season.

Christmas is a cultural event that has moved beyond the purely religious institution it may have once been, just as it has moved beyond the pagan festival it was before the Christians hijacked it.

Like marriage, it was there before Christians and we won't be dictated to about how we treat these civil institutions.

O.

O.

Abject nonsense.  Christmas is a Christian Festival now, and you hypocrites are simply clutching at straws to try and justify indulging in things Christmassy.  Have the courage of your "convictions!"

In which case Easter is a pagan festival and you are a hypocrite for celebrating it in any other manner than a pagan one.

More to the point, what day is it? Surely not Monday, named by pagans after the moon? Surely, BA, you've good, decent Christian names of the days of the week? You wouldn't be so hypocritical as to casually adopt the pagan names for days of the week when you're such an upstanding Christian, would you?

O.

[Shaker]

I gather that in the olden days the Quakers used to call the days of the week First Day, Second Day etc. to avoid the use of pagan names.

They knew how to walk the walk and not be hypocrites, mind

[Owlswing]

Whether they were or not, the point is, do atheists adhere to these now generally accepted Christian days?  If so, they are hypocrites.  "Christianity" requires a capital letter, as it is a proper noun.

So we're not allowed to celebrate Christmas because we're not Christians, but we're not allowed to drop Christmas because the Christians will cry about it - see the recent media articles about Starbucks' choice of cups for the holiday season.

Christmas is a cultural event that has moved beyond the purely religious institution it may have once been, just as it has moved beyond the pagan festival it was before the Christians hijacked it.

Like marriage, it was there before Christians and we won't be dictated to about how we treat these civil institutions.

O.

O.

I wonder how BA would express his displeasure at those arguing against christianity if the word "hypocrite" was banned? He would be lost for words!

He is also a gutless coward - makes an accusation against me and then refuses to answer my rebuttal.

[Hope]

I gather that in the olden days the Quakers used to call the days of the week First Day, Second Day etc. to avoid the use of pagan names.

They knew how to walk the walk and not be hypocrites, mind

And I wonder how many of the 'original' Pagans borrowed names and terminology from their predecessors?  How many atheists 'hypocritically' borrow terminology from their religious predecessors?  Remember that terminology is not inherently 'pagan' or 'religious' or even 'atheist'.  It is cultural.

[Shaker]

I gather that in the olden days the Quakers used to call the days of the week First Day, Second Day etc. to avoid the use of pagan names.

They knew how to walk the walk and not be hypocrites, mind

And I wonder how many of the 'original' Pagans borrowed names and terminology from their predecessors?  How many atheists 'hypocritically' borrow terminology from their religious predecessors?

No idea.

The same as you, or you'd give specific examples.

Wouldn't you?