Proselytism

[BashfulAnthony]

What do you mean by "fruitloop?"

I mean his belief in alchemy.

I mean the amount of time he spent scouring the Bible because he held to numerological beliefs which led him to think that the Bible contained hidden coded messages which only he could decipher.

He must have been some fruitloop, to arrive at the genius theories he managed!

It's a testament yet again to the incredible power of compartmentalisation some people have.

 
A fair try.  But not convincing, I fear.

[Shaker]

I have friend who religiously sends out 'Happy Saturnalia' cards every year - these days the mid-winter holiday is whatever you want it to be for you, which is fine by me.

Indeed.

[Hope]

I celebrate Christmas as it should be, and that's living in my book. I join in to the other aspects in a token manner, because of my family.

BA, what do you mean b 'as it should be'?

The Chronography of 354 AD contains early evidence of the celebration on December 25 of a Christian liturgical feast of the birth of Jesus. This was in Rome, while in Eastern Christianity the birth of Jesus was already celebrated in connection with the Epiphany on January 6. The December 25 celebration was imported into the East later: in Antioch by John Chrysostom towards the end of the 4th century, probably in 388, and in Alexandria only in the following century. Even in the West, the January 6 celebration of the nativity of Jesus seems to have continued until after 380

wikipedia

Christmas celebrations in - say the sub-continent - are very different to those here n the UK, which are different to those in - say - South America.

[BashfulAnthony]

I celebrate Christmas as it should be, and that's living in my book. I join in to the other aspects in a token manner, because of my family.

BA, what do you mean b 'as it should be'?

The Chronography of 354 AD contains early evidence of the celebration on December 25 of a Christian liturgical feast of the birth of Jesus. This was in Rome, while in Eastern Christianity the birth of Jesus was already celebrated in connection with the Epiphany on January 6. The December 25 celebration was imported into the East later: in Antioch by John Chrysostom towards the end of the 4th century, probably in 388, and in Alexandria only in the following century. Even in the West, the January 6 celebration of the nativity of Jesus seems to have continued until after 380

wikipedia

Christmas celebrations in - say the sub-continent - are very different to those here n the UK, which are different to those in - say - South America.

I celebrate the birth of Our Lord Jesus: that is "as it should be."

[Outrider]

Try as hard as you like, in your little way, Christmas is  Christian Festival, and you heathens cannot resist joining in because of you self-indulgance, and fear of looking ridiculous by admitting to your strange ways to others.  That's the truth of it.

Try as hard as you like Christianity's relevance in the UK is in decline, and whilst we choose to keep some of the historical traditions for sentimental reasons you no more own Christmas because it has 'Christ' in it than Boots owns my Wellingtons.

I don't need to worry about looking ridiculous, my ways are far from strange, and even if they were I do many, many strange things already: hell, I regularly participate in a philosophical discussion forum on-line!

O.

[BashfulAnthony]

Try as hard as you like, in your little way, Christmas is  Christian Festival, and you heathens cannot resist joining in because of you self-indulgance, and fear of looking ridiculous by admitting to your strange ways to others.  That's the truth of it.

Try as hard as you like Christianity's relevance in the UK is in decline, and whilst we choose to keep some of the historical traditions for sentimental reasons you no more own Christmas because it has 'Christ' in it than Boots owns my Wellingtons.

I don't need to worry about looking ridiculous, my ways are far from strange, and even if they were I do many, many strange things already: hell, I regularly participate in a philosophical discussion forum on-line!

O.

Why am I not surprise?   

[Outrider]

Whether they were or not, the point is, do atheists adhere to these now generally accepted Christian days?  If so, they are hypocrites.  "Christianity" requires a capital letter, as it is a proper noun.

So we're not allowed to celebrate Christmas because we're not Christians, but we're not allowed to drop Christmas because the Christians will cry about it - see the recent media articles about Starbucks' choice of cups for the holiday season.

Christmas is a cultural event that has moved beyond the purely religious institution it may have once been, just as it has moved beyond the pagan festival it was before the Christians hijacked it.

Like marriage, it was there before Christians and we won't be dictated to about how we treat these civil institutions.

O.

O.

Abject nonsense.  Christmas is a Christian Festival now, and you hypocrites are simply clutching at straws to try and justify indulging in things Christmassy.  Have the courage of your "convictions!"

In which case Easter is a pagan festival and you are a hypocrite for celebrating it in any other manner than a pagan one.

More to the point, what day is it? Surely not Monday, named by pagans after the moon? Surely, BA, you've good, decent Christian names of the days of the week? You wouldn't be so hypocritical as to casually adopt the pagan names for days of the week when you're such an upstanding Christian, would you?

O.

"Borrowing" names is not hypocritical  -  fool.

When you do it, or when it's days of the week that's fine. When I do it, or when it's Christmas it isn't?

Am I a hypocrite for not following the Christian parts of Christian but following the social ones because I'm not a Christian but I am social?

Are you a hypocrite for complaining about people 'misusing' your religion's terminology, but being perfectly happy to co-opt other people's religions' terminology?

If only we could still run a poll...

O.

[Outrider]

Try as hard as you like, in your little way, Christmas is  Christian Festival, and you heathens cannot resist joining in because of you self-indulgance, and fear of looking ridiculous by admitting to your strange ways to others.  That's the truth of it.

Try as hard as you like Christianity's relevance in the UK is in decline, and whilst we choose to keep some of the historical traditions for sentimental reasons you no more own Christmas because it has 'Christ' in it than Boots owns my Wellingtons.

I don't need to worry about looking ridiculous, my ways are far from strange, and even if they were I do many, many strange things already: hell, I regularly participate in a philosophical discussion forum on-line!

O.

Why am I not surprise?   

Because you're incredibly credulous?

O.

[BashfulAnthony]

Try as hard as you like, in your little way, Christmas is  Christian Festival, and you heathens cannot resist joining in because of you self-indulgance, and fear of looking ridiculous by admitting to your strange ways to others.  That's the truth of it.

Try as hard as you like Christianity's relevance in the UK is in decline, and whilst we choose to keep some of the historical traditions for sentimental reasons you no more own Christmas because it has 'Christ' in it than Boots owns my Wellingtons.

I don't need to worry about looking ridiculous, my ways are far from strange, and even if they were I do many, many strange things already: hell, I regularly participate in a philosophical discussion forum on-line!

O.

Why am I not surprise?   

Because you're incredibly credulous?

O.

No, because I though you were quite normal; but find that I was wrong.  Normal people do not do "many, many, strange things."  The mind boggles!

[Outrider]

No, because I though you were quite normal; but find that I was wrong.  Normal people do not do "many, many, strange things."  The mind boggles!

Really? How do you define 'strange'? I'd say, given how few people attend church regularlyin this country these days, that you probably do something strange about once a week.

I'm quite happy to admit to doing strange things - I've seen normal, it's pretty uninspiring.

O.

[BashfulAnthony]

Try as hard as you like, in your little way, Christmas is  Christian Festival, and you heathens cannot resist joining in because of you self-indulgance, and fear of looking ridiculous by admitting to your strange ways to others.  That's the truth of it.

Try as hard as you like Christianity's relevance in the UK is in decline, and whilst we choose to keep some of the historical traditions for sentimental reasons you no more own Christmas because it has 'Christ' in it than Boots owns my Wellingtons.

I don't need to worry about looking ridiculous, my ways are far from strange, and even if they were I do many, many strange things already: hell, I regularly participate in a philosophical discussion forum on-line!

O.

I am not arguing on that basis  -  can't you follow?  I am saying, for the umpteenth time, that the atheists on here are hypocritically embracing the Christian aspects of Christmas, whilst denying its veracity. Have you got that?

[Shaker]

We get that you're asserting this as the case; what we're not getting is your evidence for it.

[Outrider]

I am not arguing on that basis  -  can't you follow?  I am saying, for the umpteenth time, that the atheists on here are hypocritically embracing the Christian aspects of Christmas, whilst denying its veracity. Have you got that?

No, I'm trying to see what 'Christian' aspects of Christmas it is that you think we're adopting?

O.

[jeremyp]

To spend so much time denying Christianity, and religion generally, and then send Christmas presents, is pure, unadulterated, hypocrisy!

Can you point to the place in Scripture where we are instructed to give each other gifts on or about the Winter Solstice?

I don't think you can.

[BashfulAnthony]

We get that you're asserting this as the case; what we're not getting is your evidence for it.

Oh, for goodness sake, man:  read the posts.  We have this same discussion each year.  How come you haven't noticed the reactions?

[ippy]

Heya iipy chops,

This is special just for you. Merry Christmas!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AUE4ZrMItI

Ta very much Woody, very seasonal, I've got a sympathetic tree up in the loft ready for the Isaac Newton's birthday celebrations on the 25-12 this year I'm looking forward to that, hope you have a good time all of the time, I wish you well.

ippy

Not a Christmas tree in our home - a Yule log, yes.

My daughters and I split things along religious lines.

Yule cards and presents for the pagans on December 21 and Christmas presents and cards for those of that persuasion on December 25 and, strange thought it may seem considering soem of the comments by the Christians on this Forum, our Christian friends find this perfectly acceptable.

So you ignore Newton?

ippy

You mean that good, religious, fellow?

Well yes, where else could you go, mind you obviously the engineers of their own demise, thank goodness.

ippy

[Shaker]

We get that you're asserting this as the case; what we're not getting is your evidence for it.

Oh, for goodness sake, man:  read the posts.

I have, and at no point have I seen any evidence that any atheist (or adherent of any religion other than Christianity, come to that) supposedly embraces some specifically Christian aspect of Christmas. That's why I'm asking, and given your manifest reluctance to answer, I should say that such evidence doesn't exist.

We have this same discussion each year.

We have the same parade of tired old assertions with no substantiation and the same old whining, certainly.

[BashfulAnthony]

We have the same parade of tired old assertions with no substantiation and the same old whining, certainly.

Shaker, don't talk yourself down so!  Anyway, people know already what you're like.

[jeremyp]

In which case Easter is a pagan festival and you are a hypocrite for celebrating it in any other manner than a pagan one.

I'm afraid not. There's actually no evidence that Christianity co-opted a Germanic festival for what we call Easter. The name may have arisen because it happened in the Saxon month of Eostre, but, of course  Latin countries call Easter something totally different. In fact, in most languages, the name for Easter derives from "Pesach", which is, of course, the real name of the Jewish festival we call Passover. Easter is co-opted from the Jews and totally logically when you consider the story.

[BashfulAnthony]

In which case Easter is a pagan festival and you are a hypocrite for celebrating it in any other manner than a pagan one.

I'm afraid not. There's actually no evidence that Christianity co-opted a Germanic festival for what we call Easter. The name may have arisen because it happened in the Saxon month of Eostre, but, of course  Latin countries call Easter something totally different. In fact, in most languages, the name for Easter derives from "Pesach", which is, of course, the real name of the Jewish festival we call Passover. Easter is co-opted from the Jews and totally logically when you consider the story.

Thank you, jeremy  -  never though I'd say that!

[Outrider]

In which case Easter is a pagan festival and you are a hypocrite for celebrating it in any other manner than a pagan one.

I'm afraid not. There's actually no evidence that Christianity co-opted a Germanic festival for what we call Easter. The name may have arisen because it happened in the Saxon month of Eostre, but, of course  Latin countries call Easter something totally different. In fact, in most languages, the name for Easter derives from "Pesach", which is, of course, the real name of the Jewish festival we call Passover. Easter is co-opted from the Jews and totally logically when you consider the story.

Maybe, but they ripped off the story in the first place from Mithras and Osiris, right?

O.

[Shaker]

And where did those plagiaristic bleeders nab it from? 

[jeremyp]

Maybe, but they ripped off the story in the first place from Mithras and Osiris, right?

Ha. I just started Mary Beard's book SPQR and it has a chapter on Romulus. Apparently, he was born of a virgin (impregnated by Mars, a god) and when he died, he didn't die, he ascended into heaven.

These virgin birth, miraculous "death" stories seem to be two a penny in the ancient world.

[Shaker]

Ha. I just started Mary Beard's book SPQR ...

Off-topic but I have to ask: I saw that on Amazon a couple of days back - worth getting hold of?

[Owlswing]

Heya iipy chops,

This is special just for you. Merry Christmas!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AUE4ZrMItI

Ta very much Woody, very seasonal, I've got a sympathetic tree up in the loft ready for the Isaac Newton's birthday celebrations on the 25-12 this year I'm looking forward to that, hope you have a good time all of the time, I wish you well.

ippy

Not a Christmas tree in our home - a Yule log, yes.

My daughters and I split things along religious lines.

Yule cards and presents for the pagans on December 21 and Christmas presents and cards for those of that persuasion on December 25 and, strange thought it may seem considering soem of the comments by the Christians on this Forum, our Christian friends find this perfectly acceptable.

So you ignore Newton?

ippy

Sorry, Ippy, I didn't realise that this question was addressed to me!

Why, in the matter under discussion, would I want to take notice of Newton. I'm not a fisherman.