Author Topic: Proselytism  (Read 72368 times)

Owlswing

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Re: Proselytism
« Reply #350 on: November 09, 2015, 08:16:57 PM »
Dearest Matty,
I don't find it strange that you do the yule thingy as well as give gifts to Christians, not strange at all since you are a witch. And the reality is I find it strange you announce to your crowds of Christian friends that you also give yule things to pagans. Oh and I called ya a witch cause ya claim to be one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WWrBPpya2w

Why is it so strange. I don't bother to make a secret of my beliefs, can't see the point really.

I call you Cree because you say you are one;

I call you canadian because you say you are one;

I call you christian because you say you are one.

What the point of your post is I cannot understand - if it was meant to be humourous it failed, if it was intended to demonstrate your understanding of my social circle, it failed, if it was meant to show how intelligent you are - - - MAJOR FAIL!

Now go to Nanny and get her to change your nappy - sorry, diaper, powder your bum, give you back your dummy and put you back in your cot! Sleep well and, with a bit of luck, the goblins will take you during the night and deliver you to David Bowie in his castle.

« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 09:32:56 PM by Owlswing »
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

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ProfessorDavey

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Re: Proselytism
« Reply #351 on: November 09, 2015, 09:19:41 PM »
In which case Easter is a pagan festival and you are a hypocrite for celebrating it in any other manner than a pagan one.

I'm afraid not. There's actually no evidence that Christianity co-opted a Germanic festival for what we call Easter. The name may have arisen because it happened in the Saxon month of Eostre, but, of course  Latin countries call Easter something totally different. In fact, in most languages, the name for Easter derives from "Pesach", which is, of course, the real name of the Jewish festival we call Passover. Easter is co-opted from the Jews and totally logically when you consider the story.
Sorry Jeremy but you are wrong - there is evidence.

The starting point being the entirely different etymology of Easter - the term used in English and Pascha (and its derivatives), used almost everywhere else. Pascha etc clearly derives from a Jewish root (as you say), but Easter doesn't. So the question then arises to its origin and there is evidence, both direct and indirect, that it relates to a spring deity, variously referred to as Eostre, Ostara, Austro etc etc.

And there is direct evidence from Bede who refers specifically to the derivation of Easter as a term relating it to Anglo Saxon festivals during Ēosturmōnaþ (Eastro's month) in honour of the goddess. And don't forget that Bede was writing very soon after the Christianisation of Anglo Saxon England, so very close to the actual events. Indeed when Bede was born Anglo Saxon England was still ruled by a pagan worshiping King and it is likely that at the time of writing pagan festivals would still have been very much in evidence even if Christianity was taking an increasing hold. And also in terms of partiality, don't forget that Bede was a Christian so there isn't any reason why he would create 'histories' that aren't actually very favourable toward Christianity (i.e. borrowing a pagan name for their most important festival) if there wasn't truth in them.

Sure there is controversy over the writings of Bede, but that doesn't mean there isn't evidence, merely that not everyone agrees on the significance of that evidence, as is pretty well always the case for historical evidence from such a long time ago.

But what we can be sure of is that there is nothing in the etymology of Easter that is remotely Christian - which is of course why most other languages uses a completely different term (e.g. Pascha, Pasches, Pasen, påske, påsk, páskar etc). Spot the odd one out.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 10:46:41 PM by ProfessorDavey »

ippy

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Re: Proselytism
« Reply #352 on: November 09, 2015, 10:38:52 PM »
Heya iipy chops,

This is special just for you. Merry Christmas!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AUE4ZrMItI

Ta very much Woody, very seasonal, I've got a sympathetic tree up in the loft ready for the Isaac Newton's birthday celebrations on the 25-12 this year I'm looking forward to that, hope you have a good time all of the time, I wish you well.

ippy

Not a Christmas tree in our home - a Yule log, yes.

My daughters and I split things along religious lines.

Yule cards and presents for the pagans on December 21 and Christmas presents and cards for those of that persuasion on December 25 and, strange thought it may seem considering soem of the comments by the Christians on this Forum, our Christian friends find this perfectly acceptable.

So you ignore Newton?

ippy

Sorry, Ippy, I didn't realise that this question was addressed to me!

Why, in the matter under discussion, would I want to take notice of Newton. I'm not a fisherman.


Like it, about as serious as the question.

ippy

Owlswing

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Re: Proselytism
« Reply #353 on: November 09, 2015, 10:59:52 PM »
Heya iipy chops,

This is special just for you. Merry Christmas!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AUE4ZrMItI

Ta very much Woody, very seasonal, I've got a sympathetic tree up in the loft ready for the Isaac Newton's birthday celebrations on the 25-12 this year I'm looking forward to that, hope you have a good time all of the time, I wish you well.

ippy

Not a Christmas tree in our home - a Yule log, yes.

My daughters and I split things along religious lines.

Yule cards and presents for the pagans on December 21 and Christmas presents and cards for those of that persuasion on December 25 and, strange thought it may seem considering soem of the comments by the Christians on this Forum, our Christian friends find this perfectly acceptable.

So you ignore Newton?

ippy

Sorry, Ippy, I didn't realise that this question was addressed to me!

Why, in the matter under discussion, would I want to take notice of Newton. I'm not a fisherman.


Like it, about as serious as the question.

ippy

Oh! OK!
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Proselytism
« Reply #354 on: November 10, 2015, 03:48:41 AM »
Dearest Matty,
I don't find it strange that you do the yule thingy as well as give gifts to Christians, not strange at all since you are a witch. And the reality is I find it strange you announce to your crowds of Christian friends that you also give yule things to pagans. Oh and I called ya a witch cause ya claim to be one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WWrBPpya2w

Why is it so strange. I don't bother to make a secret of my beliefs, can't see the point really.

I call you Cree because you say you are one;

I call you canadian because you say you are one;

I call you christian because you say you are one.

What the point of your post is I cannot understand - if it was meant to be humourous it failed, if it was intended to demonstrate your understanding of my social circle, it failed, if it was meant to show how intelligent you are - - - MAJOR FAIL!

Now go to Nanny and get her to change your nappy - sorry, diaper, powder your bum, give you back your dummy and put you back in your cot! Sleep well and, with a bit of luck, the goblins will take you during the night and deliver you to David Bowie in his castle.

Here's a guy who accuses me of belittling him and abusing him  -  arrant hypocrite!  He also says he will ignore me:  let's see.
BA.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

ippy

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Re: Proselytism
« Reply #355 on: November 10, 2015, 07:58:11 AM »
Dearest Matty,
I don't find it strange that you do the yule thingy as well as give gifts to Christians, not strange at all since you are a witch. And the reality is I find it strange you announce to your crowds of Christian friends that you also give yule things to pagans. Oh and I called ya a witch cause ya claim to be one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WWrBPpya2w

Why is it so strange. I don't bother to make a secret of my beliefs, can't see the point really.

I call you Cree because you say you are one;

I call you canadian because you say you are one;

I call you christian because you say you are one.

What the point of your post is I cannot understand - if it was meant to be humourous it failed, if it was intended to demonstrate your understanding of my social circle, it failed, if it was meant to show how intelligent you are - - - MAJOR FAIL!

Now go to Nanny and get her to change your nappy - sorry, diaper, powder your bum, give you back your dummy and put you back in your cot! Sleep well and, with a bit of luck, the goblins will take you during the night and deliver you to David Bowie in his castle.

Here's a guy who accuses me of belittling him and abusing him  -  arrant hypocrite!  He also says he will ignore me:  let's see.

This only a blog forum why do you let the things said here, apparently, get to you so much?

By the way why's hypocrite the in word with you at the moment?

Take a deep breath settle down and take it easy, just because someone doesn't see eye to eye with you doesn't necessarily make them a bad person.

ippy 

Hope

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Re: Proselytism
« Reply #356 on: November 10, 2015, 08:40:51 AM »
By the way why's hypocrite the in word with you at the moment?
ippy, why the concern over the use of the word?  Religious people here are regularly accused of being hypocrites by folk like yourself, either by implication or by use of the word itself.  I haven't seen may of them questioning the use of the word/concept; rather, they provide logical argument as to why the accusation is wrong.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Owlswing

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Re: Proselytism
« Reply #357 on: November 10, 2015, 09:00:04 AM »
By the way why's hypocrite the in word with you at the moment?
ippy, why the concern over the use of the word?  Religious people here are regularly accused of being hypocrites by folk like yourself, either by implication or by use of the word itself.  I haven't seen may of them questioning the use of the word/concept; rather, they provide logical argument as to why the accusation is wrong.

The point I take from Floo's comment is that anyone and everyone who chooses to question anything BA says is immediately designated a hypocrite. Even when he knows Sweet Fanny Adams about what he, or his target, ar talking about.
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Hope

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Re: Proselytism
« Reply #358 on: November 10, 2015, 10:38:46 AM »
The point I take from Floo's comment is that anyone and everyone who chooses to question anything BA says is immediately designated a hypocrite. Even when he knows Sweet Fanny Adams about what he, or his target, ar talking about.
So, he's rather like several of the posters here, isn't he, ippy?  ;)
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Shaker

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Re: Proselytism
« Reply #359 on: November 10, 2015, 10:47:09 AM »
By the way why's hypocrite the in word with you at the moment?
ippy, why the concern over the use of the word?  Religious people here are regularly accused of being hypocrites by folk like yourself, either by implication or by use of the word itself.
It's especially fitting with those who are hypocrites, I always find.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Proselytism
« Reply #360 on: November 10, 2015, 10:56:47 AM »
By the way why's hypocrite the in word with you at the moment?
ippy, why the concern over the use of the word?  Religious people here are regularly accused of being hypocrites by folk like yourself, either by implication or by use of the word itself.
It's especially fitting with those who are hypocrites, I always find.

Well, you are the expert!
BA.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

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Re: Proselytism
« Reply #361 on: November 10, 2015, 11:01:19 AM »
Do tell.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Proselytism
« Reply #362 on: November 10, 2015, 11:01:39 AM »
Dearest Matty,
I don't find it strange that you do the yule thingy as well as give gifts to Christians, not strange at all since you are a witch. And the reality is I find it strange you announce to your crowds of Christian friends that you also give yule things to pagans. Oh and I called ya a witch cause ya claim to be one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WWrBPpya2w

Why is it so strange. I don't bother to make a secret of my beliefs, can't see the point really.

I call you Cree because you say you are one;

I call you canadian because you say you are one;

I call you christian because you say you are one.

What the point of your post is I cannot understand - if it was meant to be humourous it failed, if it was intended to demonstrate your understanding of my social circle, it failed, if it was meant to show how intelligent you are - - - MAJOR FAIL!

Now go to Nanny and get her to change your nappy - sorry, diaper, powder your bum, give you back your dummy and put you back in your cot! Sleep well and, with a bit of luck, the goblins will take you during the night and deliver you to David Bowie in his castle.

Here's a guy who accuses me of belittling him and abusing him  -  arrant hypocrite!  He also says he will ignore me:  let's see.

This only a blog forum why do you let the things said here, apparently, get to you so much?

By the way why's hypocrite the in word with you at the moment?


Take a deep breath settle down and take it easy, just because someone doesn't see eye to eye with you doesn't necessarily make them a bad person.

ippy

Hypocrite just happens to be applicable to the attitude atheists have to Christmas.  Incidentally, I might ask you atheists why such words as, "magic," "fairies," etc, are so much the in-words with you.

I don't think you are bad people: what gives you that idea?  I just think you are mis-guided, and sometimes offensive.
BA.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

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Re: Proselytism
« Reply #363 on: November 10, 2015, 11:06:10 AM »
Hypocrite just happens to be applicable to the attitude atheists have to Christmas.
I can only assume you haven't been reading any of the posts here by atheists about Christmas - I thought practically every single one of them sparkingly clear and lucid, and not a scrap of hypocrisy is to be found anywhere. On the one occasion when you deigned to provide a list of what according to you are specifically Christian elements of Christmas it fell flat, embarrassingly so.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Proselytism
« Reply #364 on: November 10, 2015, 11:09:59 AM »
Hypocrite just happens to be applicable to the attitude atheists have to Christmas.
I can only assume you haven't been reading any of the posts here by atheists about Christmas - I thought practically every single one of them sparkingly clear and lucid, and not a scrap of hypocrisy is to be found anywhere. On the one occasion when you deigned to provide a list of what according to you are specifically Christian elements of Christmas it fell flat, embarrassingly so.

They fell flat, because they all, like you, ignore questions they cannot answer.  So, not only hypocritical, but cowardly and evasive, too.  Nothing new there.
BA.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

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Re: Proselytism
« Reply #365 on: November 10, 2015, 11:19:50 AM »

They fell flat, because they all, like you, ignore questions they cannot answer.  So, not only hypocritical, but cowardly and evasive, too.  Nothing new there.
Which questions haven't been answered?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Proselytism
« Reply #366 on: November 10, 2015, 11:22:56 AM »

They fell flat, because they all, like you, ignore questions they cannot answer.  So, not only hypocritical, but cowardly and evasive, too.  Nothing new there.
Which questions haven't been answered?

Do you actually read the posts?  No atheists have yet explained why they adhere to Christian practices and festivities, and those here being so vitriolic in their denunciation of religion.
BA.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

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Re: Proselytism
« Reply #367 on: November 10, 2015, 11:29:36 AM »
Only you see a Victorian invention designed to get people using a new thing called the penny post as a Christian practice, to give but one example.

And given that you yesterday conceded that for the vast majority of people Christmas is a secular public holiday with no religious component whatever, why you revert to calling it a Christian festival is a mystery. It used to be; for the vast majority it isn't any more because things change over time. Perhaps that's the essence of your difficulty, I don't know.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 11:33:35 AM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Proselytism
« Reply #368 on: November 10, 2015, 11:35:43 AM »
Only you see a Victorian invention designed to get people using a new thing called the penny post as a Christian practice, to give but one example.

And given that you yesterday conceded that for the vast majority of people Christmas is a secular public holiday with no religious component whatever, why you revert to calling it a Christian festival is a mystery. It used to be; for the vast majority it isn't any more because things change over time. Perhaps that's the essence of your difficulty, I don't know.

I call it a Christian Festival because....well, it is!!  It's all the carols and religious services and religious cards and representations, that are the clues!     ::)
BA.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

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Re: Proselytism
« Reply #369 on: November 10, 2015, 11:38:19 AM »
Except that the overwhelming majority of people don't think of it as such or treat it as such. Turn on the telly or go into the middle of any city or large town pretty much any time from about now onwards; that's not a Christian festival, is it?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Owlswing

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Re: Proselytism
« Reply #370 on: November 10, 2015, 11:42:16 AM »
Except that the overwhelming majority of people don't think of it as such or treat it as such. Turn on the telly or go into the middle of any city or large town pretty much any time from about now onwards; that's not a Christian festival, is it?

Shaker

Have you ever heard Tom Lehrer's song "A Christmas Carol"?

It would seem, from your comments, to be one that you might find enjoyable!
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Shaker

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Re: Proselytism
« Reply #371 on: November 10, 2015, 11:55:34 AM »
I know it. He's more cynical than I'll ever be, though  :)
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Owlswing

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Re: Proselytism
« Reply #372 on: November 10, 2015, 11:59:24 AM »
I know it. He's more cynical than I'll ever be, though  :)

Cynical?

Possibly - but accurate in some of his comments.
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

ippy

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Re: Proselytism
« Reply #373 on: November 10, 2015, 12:33:54 PM »
By the way why's hypocrite the in word with you at the moment?
ippy, why the concern over the use of the word?  Religious people here are regularly accused of being hypocrites by folk like yourself, either by implication or by use of the word itself.  I haven't seen may of them questioning the use of the word/concept; rather, they provide logical argument as to why the accusation is wrong.

No concern here, it just seems to be the catchword of the moment with B A, he's throwing it about post after post I thought it might be a good idea if he calmed down a bit.

Can't say hypocrite is something that particularly comes to my mind where the majority of posts are concerned here on this forum although I'm sure hypocrite must fit some of the posts. Not sure that I've aimed or tried to plant hypocrite on anyone.

As you probably know I don't see any of the religions as a serious or credible line of thought so I can't see why anyone aiming hypocrisy in the direction of a believer is any worse than accusing them of being a believer.

ippy

Please feel free to call me whatever you like, I promise I won't complain. 

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Proselytism
« Reply #374 on: November 10, 2015, 12:37:45 PM »
I call it a Christian Festival because....well, it is!!  It's all the carols and religious services and religious cards and representations, that are the clues!     ::)
Can you explain the religious significance of a card with a picture of a robin sat on a snow covered fence with the words 'Seasons Greetings' inside. Perhaps your world is different but I am much more likely to receive cards of that type than ones with a picture of the nativity.