Proselytism

[ippy]

The point I take from Floo's comment is that anyone and everyone who chooses to question anything BA says is immediately designated a hypocrite. Even when he knows Sweet Fanny Adams about what he, or his target, ar talking about.

So, he's rather like several of the posters here, isn't he, ippy? 

Some of the posters on this forum have quite outlandish ideas that must be making the imagination bit of their brains work a considerable amount of overtime and when you add how much extra work it must take to make this world fit a rather narrow, fixed idea, I would think this makes being a hypocrite pale away, don't you think, Hope?   

ippy

[ippy]

Dearest Matty,
I don't find it strange that you do the yule thingy as well as give gifts to Christians, not strange at all since you are a witch. And the reality is I find it strange you announce to your crowds of Christian friends that you also give yule things to pagans. Oh and I called ya a witch cause ya claim to be one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WWrBPpya2w

Why is it so strange. I don't bother to make a secret of my beliefs, can't see the point really.

I call you Cree because you say you are one;

I call you canadian because you say you are one;

I call you christian because you say you are one.

What the point of your post is I cannot understand - if it was meant to be humourous it failed, if it was intended to demonstrate your understanding of my social circle, it failed, if it was meant to show how intelligent you are - - - MAJOR FAIL!

Now go to Nanny and get her to change your nappy - sorry, diaper, powder your bum, give you back your dummy and put you back in your cot! Sleep well and, with a bit of luck, the goblins will take you during the night and deliver you to David Bowie in his castle.

Here's a guy who accuses me of belittling him and abusing him  -  arrant hypocrite!  He also says he will ignore me:  let's see.

This only a blog forum why do you let the things said here, apparently, get to you so much?

By the way why's hypocrite the in word with you at the moment?

Take a deep breath settle down and take it easy, just because someone doesn't see eye to eye with you doesn't necessarily make them a bad person.

ippy

Hypocrite just happens to be applicable to the attitude atheists have to Christmas.  Incidentally, I might ask you atheists why such words as, "magic," "fairies," etc, are so much the in-words with you.

I don't think you are bad people: what gives you that idea?  I just think you are mis-guided, and sometimes offensive.

I suppose if anyone's on a discussion forum it's automatically a place for calling a spade a spade, such as commenting on beliefs that compare so well to having a belief in fairies, magic or superstition.

We non-religious are good people and usually very good looking too and I have to admit 95% app of religious views don't offend me in the slightest so please fire away this is, as I said, a discussion forum, not that you do but don't hold back B A.

ippy

[BashfulAnthony]

I call it a Christian Festival because....well, it is!!  It's all the carols and religious services and religious cards and representations, that are the clues!     

Can you explain the religious significance of a card with a picture of a robin sat on a snow covered fence with the words 'Seasons Greetings' inside. Perhaps your world is different but I am much more likely to receive cards of that type than ones with a picture of the nativity.

If you receive or send only one card with any definite religious word or picture, then you are practising a Christmas celebration; or if you participate in any way, however small, you being hypocritical.  The atheists on here  denigrate religion, often in the most base manner, yet are prepared to join in the Festival which celebrates the birth of Jesus.  In my book that is gross hypocrisy.  What more can I say?  I am repeating myself; yet still the they argue.  What a bunch of fakes!   

[Leonard James]

I suppose if anyone's on a discussion forum it's automatically a place for calling a spade a spade, such as commenting on beliefs that compare so well to having a belief in fairies, magic or superstition.

A truth impossible for religious types to appreciate.

We non-religious are good people and usually very good looking too and I have to admit 95% app of religious views don't offend me in the slightest

True ... it is about as sensible as being offended by the remarks of a very young child.

so please fire away this is, as I said, a discussion forum, not that you do but don't hold back B A.

Oh, he doesn't, he doesn't!

BA is a sure source of amusement to most people here.

[Leonard James]

What more can I say?  I am repeating myself;

That's OK, BA! It keeps you happy and makes us laugh, so why not? 

[Shaker]

If you receive or send only one card with any definite religious word or picture, then you are practising a Christmas celebration

I don't - all the cards I send and receive are for the most part of the kind Prof. D has mentioned; snowy fields, robins and the like - but it must have escaped your attention that while people are in control of the cards they send, they have no control over the cards they receive. I would expect to receive a religiously-themed card from a religious person, if I knew any (I don't) - the idea that to receive such a card entails that one is thereby participating in a religious practice is one of the most astoundingly stupid things I've ever heard you come out with, and that's given some stiff competition in that regard.

The atheists on here  denigrate religion, often in the most base manner, yet are prepared to join in the Festival which celebrates the birth of Jesus.

That's not what they're doing though, as you well know.

If repetition bothers you, why do we have to keep repeating this same simple point over and over again even though you're intellectually hobbled to the extent that you can't take it on board?

[BashfulAnthony]

If you receive or send only one card with any definite religious word or picture, then you are practising a Christmas celebration

I don't - all the cards I send and receive are for the most part of the kind Prof. D has mentioned; snowy fields, robins and the like - but it must have escaped your attention that while people are in control of the cards they send, they have no control over the cards they receive. I would expect to receive a religiously-themed card from a religious person, if I knew any (I don't) - the idea that to receive such a card entails that one is thereby participating in a religious practice is one of the most astoundingly stupid things I've ever heard you come out with, and that's given some stiff competition in that regard.

The atheists on here  denigrate religion, often in the most base manner, yet are prepared to join in the Festival which celebrates the birth of Jesus.

That's not what they're doing though, as you well know.

If repetition bothers you, why do we have to keep repeating this same simple point over and over again even though you're intellectually hobbled to the extent that you can't take it on board?

Okay, I've said my piece, and stated that I am repeating things.  So I'll leave it there  -  pity you can't;  but then you don't have the courage of your convictions!

[Shaker]

What is it about my convictions that I'm supposedly betraying in anything I do with regard to Christmas?

[Leonard James]

If repetition bothers you, why do we have to keep repeating this same simple point over and over again even though you're intellectually hobbled to the extent that you can't take it on board?

His programming doesn't permit it.

[Owlswing]

If you receive or send only one card with any definite religious word or picture, then you are practising a Christmas celebration

I don't - all the cards I send and receive are for the most part of the kind Prof. D has mentioned; snowy fields, robins and the like - but it must have escaped your attention that while people are in control of the cards they send, they have no control over the cards they receive. I would expect to receive a religiously-themed card from a religious person, if I knew any (I don't) - the idea that to receive such a card entails that one is thereby participating in a religious practice is one of the most astoundingly stupid things I've ever heard you come out with, and that's given some stiff competition in that regard.

The atheists on here  denigrate religion, often in the most base manner, yet are prepared to join in the Festival which celebrates the birth of Jesus.

That's not what they're doing though, as you well know.

If repetition bothers you, why do we have to keep repeating this same simple point over and over again even though you're intellectually hobbled to the extent that you can't take it on board?

The cards that I send relate to the person to whom I am sending them.

I can see no hypocricy in sending a Christmas styled card to Christians that I know do celebrate that festival; just as I send cards bearing Winter solstice/Yule symbolism to my Pagan friends.

I would consider sending Yule cards to my Christian friends to be hypocritical. I have stated on this forum often enough for even BA to understand (though he still refuses to do so), that I have no problem with people who believe differently to me, I only do so when they announce that their way is the only way.

Fortunately my Christian friends show me the same respect for my beliefs.

[BashfulAnthony]

If repetition bothers you, why do we have to keep repeating this same simple point over and over again even though you're intellectually hobbled to the extent that you can't take it on board?

His programming doesn't permit it.

Did you not read my post:  I've said enough about it now.  Can you stop?  It seems not!

[Leonard James]

Can you stop?  It seems not!

Just killing time while having my after-lunch cuppa!

Needling you is as good a way as any to waste time.

[BashfulAnthony]

Can you stop?  It seems not!

Just killing time while having my after-lunch cuppa!

Needling you is as good a way as any to waste time.

You don't needle me:  you haven't the capacity to.  And if all your brain can devise for you to do is a bit of infantile name-calling, then it amply justifies my view of you.

[Shaker]

The cards that I send relate to the person to whom I am sending them.

I can see no hypocricy in sending a Christmas styled card to Christians that I know do celebrate that festival; just as I send cards bearing Winter solstice/Yule symbolism to my Pagan friends.

You know, I was going to say something exactly like this (except that posting on my phone is is a pain in the arse compared to on the laptop or the PC). It is, I'd have thought, a basic act of common courtesy to pitch your card to the recipient - I'd send a religiously-themed card to a religious recipient, if I had any, because it demonstrates that you've put some thought and care into what you're sending out, instead of the cookie-cutter, scattergun mass mailshot approach.

The delightful Hindu family across the road send lovely cards to the neighbours each Christmas - doubtless in BA's eyes this makes them hypocrites too.

[Leonard James]

Can you stop?  It seems not!

Just killing time while having my after-lunch cuppa!

Needling you is as good a way as any to waste time.

You don't needle me:  you haven't the capacity to.  And if all your brain can devise for you to do is a bit of infantile name-calling, then it amply justifies my view of you.

Sing on, sweet bird! 

[Nearly Sane]

Ha. I just started Mary Beard's book SPQR ...

Off-topic but I have to ask: I saw that on Amazon a couple of days back - worth getting hold of?

Not finished it but so far it is excellent, focusing on the whole question of why Rome. Interestingly for me, she uses the Catiline conspiracy as the start to illustrate a point that shows some of the reasons why, but also as discussion of of significance on terms of the historical method of the amount of documentation that surrounds that and yet still things are unclear. (interesting because I attempted to use the very 'conspiracy' on here a couple of weeks ago to look at the second problem - no takers though)


More so than many Rome histories, at least so far, it takes a more Toynbee like approach and tries to see it holistically, rather than linear. It also emphasises that in terms of militarism or barbarity, Rome was in no way unusual. So I hope Bashful writes to her to tell her, nope they were the ISIS of their age.

[Outrider]

Hypocrite just happens to be applicable to the attitude atheists have to Christmas.  Incidentally, I might ask you atheists why such words as, "magic," "fairies," etc, are so much the in-words with you.

I don't think you are bad people: what gives you that idea?  I just think you are mis-guided, and sometimes offensive.

I'd say accusing someone of being a hypocrite is saying that they are bad people - hypocrites espouse one thing, but do another, that's holding a double-standard and being disengenuous. It's not the worst accusation in the world, but it's not good.

In the case of Christmas, as has been shown, it's also not justified.

O.

[BashfulAnthony]

Hypocrite just happens to be applicable to the attitude atheists have to Christmas.  Incidentally, I might ask you atheists why such words as, "magic," "fairies," etc, are so much the in-words with you.

I don't think you are bad people: what gives you that idea?  I just think you are mis-guided, and sometimes offensive.

I'd say accusing someone of being a hypocrite is saying that they are bad people - hypocrites espouse one thing, but do another, that's holding a double-standard and being disengenuous. It's not the worst accusation in the world, but it's not good.

In the case of Christmas, as has been shown, it's also not justified.

O.

Silly, and untrue.  Everybody's a hypocrite at some time or other, even you, and don't deny it; and I don't think  in saying that I am accusing everybody of being bad.  You ought to think things through before you post, instead of the knee-jerk reaction to me because I am a theist and you want to have a "go" at me.

[Outrider]

Only you see a Victorian invention designed to get people using a new thing called the penny post as a Christian practice, to give but one example.

And given that you yesterday conceded that for the vast majority of people Christmas is a secular public holiday with no religious component whatever, why you revert to calling it a Christian festival is a mystery. It used to be; for the vast majority it isn't any more because things change over time. Perhaps that's the essence of your difficulty, I don't know.

I call it a Christian Festival because....well, it is!!  It's all the carols and religious services and religious cards and representations, that are the clues!     

That's your Christmas, not mine. I don't do carols, they bore me (and, when I sing, they pain others). I don't do religious cards, I do humourous ones. We don't do religious representations - the imagery we have tends to be wintery rather than religious.

I suspect you don't appreciate what we do for Christmas - try, rather than judging, asking?

O.

[Outrider]

If you receive or send only one card with any definite religious word or picture, then you are practising a Christmas celebration;

If someone sends me a card with religious imagery, that's on them. If I send one with religious imagery... well, it'd be by accident, I don't choose them for that. It might be mocking religious iconography (three wise men with their camels on bricks, for instance) but I  suspect you'd not considered that 'religious observance'.

or if you participate in any way, however small, you being hypocritical.

Participate in what? Midwinter celebrations? The fact that they are called 'Christmas' in most of the English speaking world doesn't give Christianity ownership of them.

The atheists on here  denigrate religion, often in the most base manner, yet are prepared to join in the Festival which celebrates the birth of Jesus.

Just like the Christians historically denigrated the pagans, but stole their midwinter festival and pretended the avatar of their god emerged then.

In my book that is gross hypocrisy.  What more can I say?  I am repeating myself; yet still the they argue.  What a bunch of fakes!

In that case I suggest you get a better book, but then that's always been the case.

O.

[BashfulAnthony]

Only you see a Victorian invention designed to get people using a new thing called the penny post as a Christian practice, to give but one example.

And given that you yesterday conceded that for the vast majority of people Christmas is a secular public holiday with no religious component whatever, why you revert to calling it a Christian festival is a mystery. It used to be; for the vast majority it isn't any more because things change over time. Perhaps that's the essence of your difficulty, I don't know.

I call it a Christian Festival because....well, it is!!  It's all the carols and religious services and religious cards and representations, that are the clues!     

That's your Christmas, not mine. I don't do carols, they bore me (and, when I sing, they pain others). I don't do religious cards, I do humourous ones. We don't do religious representations - the imagery we have tends to be wintery rather than religious.

I suspect you don't appreciate what we do for Christmas - try, rather than judging, asking?

O.

If you have never sent a Christmas card with religious overtones, never sang a carol, or wished someone "happy Christmas;'  or never sent a present to family, friend or child as a Christmas present, etc,  then you must be unique, or a liar.  And if you have done any of those things, then you are being hypocritical in your denunciation of Jesus and Christianity.  End of.

[Outrider]

Silly, and untrue.  Everybody's a hypocrite at some time or other, even you, and don't deny it; and I don't think  in saying that I am accusing everybody of being bad.  You ought to think things through before you post, instead of the knee-jerk reaction to me because I am a theist and you want to have a "go" at me.

I'm not having a knee jerk reaction to you because you're a theist, there are a number of theists of various stripes with whom I have perfectly pleasant conversations - at least in part because they don't bandy around random accusations of hypocrisy.

I don't believe in Jesus, so I'm not a Christian. I believe in winter, so I, along with the entirety of the rest of my culture, celebrate midwinter. For historical reasons that's called Christmas round here, I have no control over that.

So I celebrate cosmology in my secular way, having been bequeathed a name for it of religious origin. If you think that's hypocrisy, that's just one more concept that you fail to grasp adequately.

O.

[BashfulAnthony]

Silly, and untrue.  Everybody's a hypocrite at some time or other, even you, and don't deny it; and I don't think  in saying that I am accusing everybody of being bad.  You ought to think things through before you post, instead of the knee-jerk reaction to me because I am a theist and you want to have a "go" at me.

I'm not having a knee jerk reaction to you because you're a theist, there are a number of theists of various stripes with whom I have perfectly pleasant conversations - at least in part because they don't bandy around random accusations of hypocrisy.

I don't believe in Jesus, so I'm not a Christian. I believe in winter, so I, along with the entirety of the rest of my culture, celebrate midwinter. For historical reasons that's called Christmas round here, I have no control over that.

So I celebrate cosmology in my secular way, having been bequeathed a name for it of religious origin. If you think that's hypocrisy, that's just one more concept that you fail to grasp adequately.

O.

You, noticeably, haven't addressed anything I said, just trotted out what has become the standard mantra for atheists trying to justify their participation in Christian activities.

[Outrider]

If you have never sent a Christmas card with religious overtones, never sang a carol, or wished someone "happy Christmas;'  or never sent a present to family, friend or child as a Christmas present, etc,  then you must be unique, or a liar.  And if you have done any of those things, then you are being hypocritical in your denunciation of Jesus and Christianity.  End of.

I don't send cards with religious overtones, that's not my style. I may have wished someone 'Merry Christmas', it's a common turn of phrase; it no more makes me a religious observer than the phrases 'Good God, look at that!', 'Christ on a cracker!' or 'Holy Shit!'

I send many, many presents. That's not a particularly Christian or religious thing, that's cultural - I know Muslims that give presents at Christmas, I know a Jewish guy that makes hand-made toys to give as presents. You don't own these ideas, Christianity has no proprietary claim on these behaviours. If it did, we'd all be safe going to heaven because sometimes we kneel.

O.

[Outrider]

Silly, and untrue.  Everybody's a hypocrite at some time or other, even you, and don't deny it; and I don't think  in saying that I am accusing everybody of being bad.  You ought to think things through before you post, instead of the knee-jerk reaction to me because I am a theist and you want to have a "go" at me.

I'm not having a knee jerk reaction to you because you're a theist, there are a number of theists of various stripes with whom I have perfectly pleasant conversations - at least in part because they don't bandy around random accusations of hypocrisy.

I don't believe in Jesus, so I'm not a Christian. I believe in winter, so I, along with the entirety of the rest of my culture, celebrate midwinter. For historical reasons that's called Christmas round here, I have no control over that.

So I celebrate cosmology in my secular way, having been bequeathed a name for it of religious origin. If you think that's hypocrisy, that's just one more concept that you fail to grasp adequately.

O.

You, noticeably, haven't addressed anything I said, just trotted out what has become the standard mantra for atheists trying to justify their participation in Christian activities.

Maybe that mantra has something in it you should try to understand? What you think Christmas is about isn't necessarily what everyone else thinks Christmas is about.

If I walked through a church you wouldn't presume I was a Christian, why does the fact that I live through Christmas make you presume that I think I am?

O.