Proselytism

[Shaker]

That must be why it took so many attempts yesterday to try to explain an atheist's view of Christmas, then.

[BashfulAnthony]

That must be why it took so many attempts yesterday to try to explain an atheist's view of Christmas, then.

They could have saved themselves so much time  -  and not wasted so many of their depleted brain cells - by saying: I don't believe in Christmas.  Duh:  never thought of that, did you!   

[Shaker]

That would be an exceptionally silly thing to say, as Christmas clearly exists.

[jeremyp]

This is NOT one of the Pagan "festivals" appropriated by Christianity. It cannot be because, unlike Samhain and Beltaine, it is NOT a festival at all, it is a celebration of a way-point in the year half-way between mid-Summer and mid-Winter, the Spring Equinox, one of the Quarter Days.

What is? I don't think anybody was claiming Easter comes from one of your modern Pagan festivals. But you're right, if it was anything to do with the equinox, it would happen on the equinox.

[BashfulAnthony]

That would be an exceptionally silly thing to say, as Christmas clearly exists.

Uh?  We all know that;  but what's that got to do with whether you believe in celebrating it, as a Christian Festival?  Atheists don't, and that's what I was saying.  Gtting a bit late for you, is it?   

[OH MY WORLD!]

You need to eat some meat Shaker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxSUTcUJkv4

[Shaker]

That would be an exceptionally silly thing to say, as Christmas clearly exists.

Uh?  We all know that;  but what's that got to do with whether you believe in celebrating it, as a Christian Festival?  Atheists don't, and that's what I was saying.  Gtting a bit late for you, is it?   

Not at all; I'm just wondering why yesterday, given the number of posts in which it had to be explained to you, you didn't seem to grasp the concept of atheists not celebrating Christmas as a Christian festival, yet here you are acknowledging as much.

Perhaps it's a sign that it finally sank in, in which case, excellent and I hope we can all look forward to more of the same from you, only without so many posts telling you the same thing over and over.

[Shaker]

You need to eat some meat Shaker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxSUTcUJkv4

No I don't.

[BashfulAnthony]

That would be an exceptionally silly thing to say, as Christmas clearly exists.

Uh?  We all know that;  but what's that got to do with whether you believe in celebrating it, as a Christian Festival?  Atheists don't, and that's what I was saying.  Gtting a bit late for you, is it?   

Not at all; I'm just wondering why yesterday, given the number of posts in which it had to be explained to you, you didn't seem to grasp the concept of atheists not celebrating Christmas as a Christian festival, yet here you are acknowledging as much.

Perhaps it's a sign that it finally sank in, in which case, excellent and I hope we can all look forward to more of the same from you, only without so many posts telling you the same thing over and over.

Aah, there's old Shaky wondering about saying the same thing over and over  -  he's been doing it for donkey's years.  I fear senility is creeping up on him!   

[Shaker]

I'm not wondering about me; I'm wondering about what sort of intellectual disability you have that seems to make it necessary.

[BashfulAnthony]

I'm not wondering about me; I'm wondering about what sort of intellectual disability you have that seems to make it necessary.

I don't have any disabilities, or faults (apart from my modesty);  oh and my weakness in continuing to read atheist posts, knowing full well that they are all repetitious tripe.    

[Owlswing]

You were telling us there is no wiccan/pagan creation story, and the fact is there very much IS A WICCAN CREATION STORY. "peace please", No, how about you being not so all over the map.

I'm not a pagan but as far as I'm aware the only thing that corresponds to a Wiccan creation story was written by someone not generally taken seriously or lent much credibility by many, indeed most British pagans.

The lady's name is SilverRavenWolf - commonly referred to as Silver Raving Wolf!

She is an American Dianic (women-only) witch; she is a political agitator and a follower of the Ametican version of Wicca, rather more of the political and less of the wiccan. Over there they use the term Wiccan instead of witch as the fundamentalist Christians over there can and sometimes do make life unpleasant if you call yourself witch.

The American improved (= hoplelessly buggered about with) version bears little or no resemblance to the way in which it is practices in this country.

If you want to find out about her don't bother with Google - get her book Spiral Dance. I think that you can get it from Amazon or Foyles.

[Shaker]

I don't have any disabilities, or faults

Clearly that's a matter of faith.

[BashfulAnthony]

I don't have any disabilities, or faults

Clearly that's a matter of faith.

Yep, it works wonders;  not that you'd know!   

[Rhiannon]

You were telling us there is no wiccan/pagan creation story, and the fact is there very much IS A WICCAN CREATION STORY. "peace please", No, how about you being not so all over the map.

I'm not a pagan but as far as I'm aware the only thing that corresponds to a Wiccan creation story was written by someone not generally taken seriously or lent much credibility by many, indeed most British pagans.

The lady's name is SilverRavenWolf - commonly referred to as Silver Raving Wolf!

She is an American Dianic (women-only) witch; she is a political agitator and a follower of the Ametican version of Wicca, rather more of the political and less of the wiccan. Over there they use the term Wiccan instead of witch as the fundamentalist Christians over there can and sometimes do make life unpleasant if you call yourself witch.

The American improved (= hoplelessly buggered about with) version bears little or no resemblance to the way in which it is practices in this country.

If you want to find out about her don't bother with Google - get her book Spiral Dance. I think that you can get it from Amazon or Foyles.

Spiral Dance is Starhawk from Reclaiming. Silver Ravenwolf just produces endless books of regurgitated spells for all occasions.

[Owlswing]

You were telling us there is no wiccan/pagan creation story, and the fact is there very much IS A WICCAN CREATION STORY. "peace please", No, how about you being not so all over the map.

I'm not a pagan but as far as I'm aware the only thing that corresponds to a Wiccan creation story was written by someone not generally taken seriously or lent much credibility by many, indeed most British pagans.

The lady's name is SilverRavenWolf - commonly referred to as Silver Raving Wolf!

She is an American Dianic (women-only) witch; she is a political agitator and a follower of the Ametican version of Wicca, rather more of the political and less of the wiccan. Over there they use the term Wiccan instead of witch as the fundamentalist Christians over there can and sometimes do make life unpleasant if you call yourself witch.

The American improved (= hoplelessly buggered about with) version bears little or no resemblance to the way in which it is practices in this country.

If you want to find out about her don't bother with Google - get her book Spiral Dance. I think that you can get it from Amazon or Foyles.

Spiral Dance is Starhawk from Reclaiming. Silver Ravenwolf just produces endless books of regurgitated spells for all occasions.

Sorry - wrong Yank witch - I knew that RavenWolf was a book machine, just added a new tiltle to her collection - Aplogies to both you and Shaker!

Starhawk and Raven Wolf both on the political activist list though.

It is getting late! Plead old age! Goodnight to all who deserve it!

[Shaker]

Since our two resident pagans have both contributed to the thread this evening, would you both agree (or disagree, as the case may be) that my assessment of SRW in #426 was broadly correct, partly correct, a little correct or not at all correct?

[Rhiannon]

If you mean does she write rubbish, yes she does.

Starhawk might not be everyone's cup of tea but her books are thorough and she has very strong eco credentials - she's come over here to teach permaculture. Ravenwolf is the witch equivalent of Doreen Virtue - she'll write anything so long as it brings in the dollars.

[Shaker]

Was Starhawk the one who wrote The Pagan Book of Living and Dying?

[Rhiannon]

Apparently she is. I haven't read it. 

[Shaker]

I wondered - the name seemed familiar but I wasn't sure. I enjoyed that one.

[Rhiannon]

I need to whisper this in front of Owlswing but I actually quite like her.

The Earth Path's worth a look.

[Owlswing]

Was Starhawk the one who wrote The Pagan Book of Living and Dying?

She was the co-writer of this one - I'm not sure who the other author was.

And I fully agree with Rhiannon's comments in #449 - unfortunately there are more than a few others in the field.

As I think I have said somewhere else on the subject - newcomers to paganism are, because everything is so personal, usually told to read everything that they can get their hands on. This has had to be amended to include the warning that some authors are to be treated with a pinch of salt.

I would, if you are interested, suggest a series of books by a lady named Kate West - most of her titles start "The Real Witch's . . . "; there are also two books by a lady named Rae Beth.

I would also recommend "The Witches Bible" by Janet and Stuart Farrar. This is NOT the same as the Christian bible - it is a combination of what was originally published as two separate books and contains a lot of useful information - Stuart farrar was a member of Alex Sanders Coven that he ran with his wife Maxine. Stuart is also the author of a boom called "What witches do" in which he tells of his early tears with the Sanders, a bit dated now, but interesting none the less.

Of course - THE best author on ten subject is Ronald Hutton - if you can get your hands on all his books on paganism they will be a most rewarding read.

[Owlswing]

I need to whisper this in front of Owlswing but I actually quite like her.

The Earth Path's worth a look.

It is a truism that if you sift through enough shit you sometimes find a pearl.

[Rhiannon]

I like Karen Cater's books. Her artwork for Hedingham Fair's really good too.