Author Topic: Spooky action at a distance  (Read 3938 times)

Sriram

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Spooky action at a distance
« on: October 22, 2015, 06:39:22 AM »
Hi everyone,

Here is an new article about 'spooky action at a distance' that Einstein was so skeptical about.  Scientists have found more evidence of bodies interacting instantaneously at very great distances.

http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/another-win-for-quantum-theory-over-einstein-1235075?pfrom=home-lateststories

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In a landmark study, scientists at the Delft University of Technology in the Netherlands reported that they had conducted an experiment they say proved one of the most fundamental claims of quantum theory - that objects separated by great distance can instantaneously affect each other's behavior.

The finding is another blow to one of the bedrock principles of standard physics known as "locality," which states that an object is directly influenced only by its immediate surroundings.

 Einstein derided the idea that separate particles could be "entangled" so completely that measuring one particle would instantaneously influence the other, regardless of the distance separating them.

But since the 1970s, a series of precise experiments by physicists are increasingly erasing doubt - alternative explanations that are referred to as loopholes - that two previously entangled particles, even if separated by the width of the universe, could instantly communicate.

The new experiment, conducted by a group led by Ronald Hanson, a physicist at the Dutch university's Kavli Institute of Nanoscience, and joined by scientists from Spain and England, is the strongest evidence yet to support the most fundamental claims of the theory of quantum mechanics about the existence of an odd world formed by a fabric of subatomic particles, where matter does not take form until it is observed and time runs backward as well as forward.

"These tests have been done since the late '70s but always in the way that additional assumptions were needed," Hanson said. "Now we have confirmed that there is spooky action at distance."

The scientists say they have now ruled out all possible so-called hidden variables that would offer explanations of long-distance entanglement based on the laws of classical physics.

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For information.

Cheers.

Sriram

PS: I have deliberately posted this in the General section instead of the Science section because of the philosophical nature of the subject.  No one goes to the Science section anyway!  So...request you to please leave the thread here.

Sriram

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Re: Spooky action at a distance
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2015, 03:49:51 PM »


No comments at all?!  Philosophically the article outlines a very interesting fact of life.

Outrider

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Re: Spooky action at a distance
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2015, 04:13:02 PM »


No comments at all?!  Philosophically the article outlines a very interesting fact of life.

I'm not sure what you're looking for. Quantum entanglement is counter-intuitive, yes, because it operates at a scale unfamiliar to our sense, but I think we've been exposed to the idea for long enough that we've either come to accept it.

It doesn't make sense, in the conventional way, but it's what happens.

O.
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Udayana

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Re: Spooky action at a distance
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2015, 07:28:54 PM »
It's not "spooky" and it's not "action at a distance" nor is it "instant communication". The report reads as if it is deliberately trying to sensationalize the matter.

Entanglement and other quantum effects been studied as mainstream since Einstein and Shrodinger; We will start seeing quantum computers in use commercially within the next 5 years.
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Enki

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Re: Spooky action at a distance
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2015, 11:32:28 AM »


No comments at all?!  Philosophically the article outlines a very interesting fact of life.

If you are interested in quantum entanglement including the EPR paradox, I would recommend Brian Greene's 'The Fabric of The Cosmos'(especially Chapter 4) or 'In Search of Scrodinger's Cat' by Gribbin, for instance. They cover such things as the EPR paradox, and the experimentation following the input of John Bell which has led to the general acceptance of entanglement amongst the scientific community.
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Sriram

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Re: Spooky action at a distance
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2015, 06:23:34 AM »

Hi everyone,

I am only interested in the philosophical aspects of such matters and not in their practical applicability. The fact that bodies can influence one another instantaneously...across millions of light years is indeed remarkable in terms of its philosophical implications.

Quantum effects do not happen only in labs and in outer space. They happen every moment within our bodies and in objects around us.  What this means in terms of our cosmic connection and interactions with one another I am not sure ...but it certainly is interesting.

Cheers.

Sriram

Bubbles

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Re: Spooky action at a distance
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2015, 08:21:57 AM »
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/five-practical-uses-spooky-quantum-mechanics-180953494/


I was doing fine until the article moves on to Robins with magnetic beaks and what I presume is an evolved use of entangled atoms  :o


Who knows what impossible things may be possible, in the future.

( Perhaps when I sneeze a universe explodes somewhere.)

It might be interesting to see if the passing of time varies across space and if that could be captured somehow by these clocks. ( not having to get them back ).






Udayana

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Re: Spooky action at a distance
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2015, 10:40:37 AM »

Hi everyone,

I am only interested in the philosophical aspects of such matters and not in their practical applicability. The fact that bodies can influence one another instantaneously...across millions of light years is indeed remarkable in terms of its philosophical implications.

Quantum effects do not happen only in labs and in outer space. They happen every moment within our bodies and in objects around us.  What this means in terms of our cosmic connection and interactions with one another I am not sure ...but it certainly is interesting.

Cheers.

Sriram

Please show how one body can influence another instantaneously over a million light years away, or any study that supports that as a fact.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2015, 12:09:00 PM by Udayana »
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

Sriram

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Re: Spooky action at a distance
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2015, 03:00:01 PM »


Just google for it Udayana. This is a well known phenomenon.

Sriram

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Re: Spooky action at a distance
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2015, 06:18:01 AM »


One more article of today from Science Daily confirming this...

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/11/151112123650.htm

Maeght

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Re: Spooky action at a distance
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2015, 08:26:18 AM »
Sriram,

I think you need to consider one phrase in the initial article which was "I believe in my bones that quantum mechanics is the correct description of nature. But to make the strongest statement, frankly we're not there'. You left this out, also left out the mention of the potential weakness in the experiment which followed that line. The reference to millions of light years refers to a future experiment so to describe as a fact 'that bodies can influence one another instantaneously...across millions of light years' isn't accurate.  The area of QM is of course fascinating and there is lots to discover but to have a philosophical discussion such as you wish would be largely speculation, which is probably why few people have posted on this.

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Spooky action at a distance
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2015, 12:18:00 PM »
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/five-practical-uses-spooky-quantum-mechanics-180953494/


I was doing fine until the article moves on to Robins with magnetic beaks and what I presume is an evolved use of entangled atoms  :o


Who knows what impossible things may be possible, in the future.

( Perhaps when I sneeze a universe explodes somewhere.)

It might be interesting to see if the passing of time varies across space and if that could be captured somehow by these clocks. ( not having to get them back ).

Quite!  Or what things seem inexplicable now, will be fully explained!
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Udayana

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Re: Spooky action at a distance
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2015, 01:13:40 PM »
Yes, QM and the various QM states, superposition, entanglement and so on are real enough, and we can work with them practically.

However Einstein was incorrect to have thought of QM as supporting "spooky action at a distance", certainly it is not "spooky" and neither is it "action at a distance" - at least until we have some kind of theory unifying QM with the rest of physics,  and maybe being able to show entanglement as equivalent to "wormholes" through space-time or similar.

The current theory does not require that any information (or an "action") to be transferred at a faster than light speed. In fact, the experiment, one of the "Bell tests", is designed to show that there is no hidden mechanism (as suggested by Einstein) that might enable this. Possibly this link might explain better;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_nonlocality

What we discussing is the "interpretation" of QM, but sexy quotes such as "spooky action at distance" are distracting and misleading. If they help people become interested in physics - then OK, but I think they are usually just thrown in to confuse people when trying to push completely unrelated beliefs or fantasies.

Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

Udayana

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Re: Spooky action at a distance
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2015, 01:14:54 PM »
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/five-practical-uses-spooky-quantum-mechanics-180953494/


I was doing fine until the article moves on to Robins with magnetic beaks and what I presume is an evolved use of entangled atoms  :o


Who knows what impossible things may be possible, in the future.

( Perhaps when I sneeze a universe explodes somewhere.)

It might be interesting to see if the passing of time varies across space and if that could be captured somehow by these clocks. ( not having to get them back ).

Quite!  Or what things seem inexplicable now, will be fully explained!

Everything might be explained one day but it will be by maths not spooks :)
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now